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THE SYMPOSIUM
By Xenophon
Translation by H. G. Dakyns
Xenophon the Athenian was born 431 B.C. He was a pupil of Socrates. He marched with the Spartans, and was exiled from Athens. Sparta gave him land and property in Scillus, where he lived for many years before having to move once more, to settle in Corinth. He died in 354 B.C. The Symposium records the discussion of Socrates and company at a dinner given by Callias for the youth Autolycus. Dakyns believed that Plato knew of this work, and that it influenced him to some degree when he wrote his own "Symposium."
Xenophon the Athenian was born in 431 B.C. He was a student of Socrates. He fought alongside the Spartans and was banished from Athens. Sparta granted him land and property in Scillus, where he lived for many years before relocating again, settling in Corinth. He died in 354 B.C. The Symposium captures the conversation among Socrates and others during a dinner hosted by Callias for the young man Autolycus. Dakyns believed that Plato was aware of this work and that it influenced him in some way when he wrote his own "Symposium."
PREPARER'S NOTE This was typed from Dakyns' series, "The Works of Xenophon," a four-volume set. The complete list of Xenophon's works (though there is doubt about some of these) is: Work Number of books The Anabasis 7 The Hellenica 7 The Cyropaedia 8 The Memorabilia 4 The Symposium 1 The Economist 1 On Horsemanship 1 The Sportsman 1 The Cavalry General 1 The Apology 1 On Revenues 1 The Hiero 1 The Agesilaus 1 The Polity of the Athenians and the Lacedaemonians 2 Text in brackets "{}" is my transliteration of Greek text into English using an Oxford English Dictionary alphabet table. The diacritical marks have been lost.
PREPARER'S NOTE This was typed from Dakyns' series, "The Works of Xenophon," a four-volume set. The complete list of Xenophon's works (though there is some uncertainty about a few of them) is: Work Number of books The Anabasis 7 The Hellenica 7 The Cyropaedia 8 The Memorabilia 4 The Symposium 1 The Economist 1 On Horsemanship 1 The Sportsman 1 The Cavalry General 1 The Apology 1 On Revenues 1 The Hiero 1 The Agesilaus 1 The Polity of the Athenians and the Lacedaemonians 2 Text in brackets "{}" is my transliteration of Greek text into English using an Oxford English Dictionary alphabet table. The diacritical marks have been lost.
THE SYMPOSIUM
or
The Banquet
I
I
For myself, (1) I hold to the opinion that not alone are the serious transactions of "good and noble men" (2) most memorable, but that words and deeds distinctive of their lighter moods may claim some record. (3) In proof of which contention, I will here describe a set of incidents within the scope of my experience. (4)
For me, (1) I believe that not only the serious actions of "good and noble men" (2) are the most memorable, but also the words and actions that show their lighter sides deserve some recognition. (3) To prove this point, I will share some events from my own experience. (4)
(1) See Aristid. ii. foll. (2) Or, "nature's noblemen." (3) Cf. Plut. "Ages." 29 (Clough, iv. 35): "And indeed if, as Xenophon says, in conversation good men, even in their sports and at their wine, let fall many sayings that are worth preserving." See Grote, "Plato," ii. 228 foll. as to the sportive character of the work. (4) Or, "let me describe a scene which I was witness of." See Hug. "Plat. Symp." p. xv. foll.
(1) See Aristid. ii. etc. (2) Or, "nature's gentlemen." (3) Compare Plut. "Ages." 29 (Clough, iv. 35): "And indeed if, as Xenophon says, in conversation good people, even while enjoying themselves and drinking, share many thoughts that are worth keeping." See Grote, "Plato," ii. 228 etc. regarding the playful nature of the work. (4) Or, "let me describe a scene that I witnessed." See Hug. "Plat. Symp." p. xv. etc.
The occasion was a horse-race (5) at the great Panathenaic festival. (6) Callias, (7) the son of Hipponicus, being a friend and lover of the boy Autolycus, (8) had brought the lad, himself the winner of the pankration, (9) to see the spectacle.
The event was a horse race (5) at the grand Panathenaic festival. (6) Callias, (7) the son of Hipponicus, who was a friend and lover of the boy Autolycus, (8) had brought him along, with Autolycus being the winner of the pankration, (9) to watch the show.
(5) See "Hipparch," ii. 1. (6) "Held towards the end of July (Hecatombaeon) every year, and with greater pomp every four years (the third of each Olympiad)."—Gow, 84, 129, n. (7) Callias. Cobet, "Pros. X." p. 67 foll.; Boeckh, "P. E. A." p. 481. (8) See Cobet, op. cit. p. 54; Plut. "Lysand." 15 (Clough, iii. 120); Grote, "H. G." ix. 261. (9) 420 B.C., al. 421. The date is fixed by the "Autolycus" of Eupolis. See Athen. v. 216. For the pankration, which comprised wrestling and boxing, see Aristot. "Rhet." i. S. 14.
(5) See "Hipparch," ii. 1. (6) "Held towards the end of July (Hecatombaeon) every year, and with greater pomp every four years (the third of each Olympiad)." —Gow, 84, 129, n. (7) Callias. Cobet, "Pros. X." p. 67 foll.; Boeckh, "P. E. A." p. 481. (8) See Cobet, op. cit. p. 54; Plut. "Lysand." 15 (Clough, iii. 120); Grote, "H. G." ix. 261. (9) 420 B.C., or 421. The date is confirmed by the "Autolycus" of Eupolis. See Athen. v. 216. For the pankration, which included wrestling and boxing, see Aristot. "Rhet." i. S. 14.
As soon as the horse race was over, (10) Callias proceeded to escort Autolycus and his father, Lycon, to his house in the Piraeus, being attended also by Niceratus. (11) But catching sight of Socrates along with certain others (Critobulus, (12) Hermogenes, Antisthenes, and Charmides), he bade an attendant conduct the party with Autolycus, whilst he himself approached the group, exclaiming:
As soon as the horse race finished, (10) Callias took Autolycus and his father, Lycon, to his house in Piraeus, with Niceratus joining them. (11) But when he spotted Socrates along with a few others (Critobulus, (12) Hermogenes, Antisthenes, and Charmides), he told an attendant to take Autolycus and his father with the rest, while he himself went over to the group, calling out:
(10) See A. Martin, op. cit. p. 265. (11) Niceratus. See Cobet, op. cit. 71; Boeckh, "P. E. A." 480; Plat. "Lach." 200 C; "Hell." II. iii. 39; Lys. xviii.; Diod. xiv. 5. (12) Critobulus, Hermogenes, Antisthenes, Charmides. See "Mem."
(10) See A. Martin, op. cit. p. 265. (11) Niceratus. See Cobet, op. cit. 71; Boeckh, "P. E. A." 480; Plat. "Lach." 200 C; "Hell." II. iii. 39; Lys. xviii.; Diod. xiv. 5. (12) Critobulus, Hermogenes, Antisthenes, Charmides. See "Mem."
A happy chance brings me across your path, just when I am about to entertain Autolycus and his father at a feast. The splendour of the entertainment shall be much enhanced, I need not tell you, if my hall (13) should happily be graced by worthies like yourselves, who have attained to purity of soul, (14) rather than by generals and cavalry commanders (15) and a crowd of place-hunters. (16)
A lucky coincidence has led me to you just as I'm about to host a feast for Autolycus and his father. I don't need to tell you that the quality of the celebration will be greatly improved if my hall (13) is filled with distinguished guests like you, who have achieved true purity of soul, (14) rather than with generals and cavalry leaders (15) and a bunch of people just looking for favors. (16)
(13) Or, "dining-room." See Becker, "Charicles," 265. (14) See Grote, "H. G." viii. 619 foll. Cf. Plat. "Rep." 527 D; "Soph." 230 E. (15) Lit. Strategoi, Hipparchs. (16) Or, "petitioners for offices of state." Reading {spoudarkhiais}.
(13) Or, "dining room." See Becker, "Charicles," 265. (14) See Grote, "H. G." viii. 619 and following. Cf. Plat. "Rep." 527 D; "Soph." 230 E. (15) Literally, Strategoi, Hipparchs. (16) Or, "candidates for government positions." Reading {spoudarkhiais}.
Whereat Socrates: When will you have done with your gibes, Callias? Why, because you have yourself spent sums of money on Protagoras, (17) and Gorgias, and Prodicus, and a host of others, to learn wisdom, must you pour contempt on us poor fellows, who are but self-taught tinkers (18) in philosophy compared with you?
Whereupon Socrates said: When will you stop mocking us, Callias? Just because you’ve spent a lot of money on Protagoras, Gorgias, Prodicus, and many others to gain knowledge, does that mean you can look down on us who are just self-taught amateurs in philosophy compared to you?
(17) As to Protagoras of Abdera, Gorgias of Leontini, Prodicus of Ceos, see Plat. "Prot." 314 C, "Rep." x. 600 C, "Apol." 19 E; "Anab." II. vi. 17; "Mem." II. i. 21; "Encyc. Brit." "Sophists," H. Jackson. (18) Or, "hand-to-mouth cultivators of philosophy," "roturiers." Cf. Plat. "Rep." 565 A: "A third class who work for themselves"; Thuc. i. 141: "The Peloponnesians cultivate their own soil, and they have no wealth either public or private." Cf. "Econ." v. 4.
(17) Regarding Protagoras from Abdera, Gorgias from Leontini, and Prodicus from Ceos, see Plat. "Prot." 314 C, "Rep." x. 600 C, "Apol." 19 E; "Anab." II. vi. 17; "Mem." II. i. 21; "Encyc. Brit." "Sophists," H. Jackson. (18) Alternatively, "those who barely make a living through philosophy," "commoners." See Plat. "Rep." 565 A: "A third group who work for themselves"; Thuc. i. 141: "The Peloponnesians farm their own land, and they possess no wealth, either public or private." See also "Econ." v. 4.
Hitherto, no doubt (retorted Callias), although I had plenty of wise things to say, I have kept my wisdom to myself; but if only you will honour me with your company to-day, I promise to present myself in quite another light; you will see I am a person of no mean consideration after all. (19)
So far, it’s true (Callias replied), even though I have a lot of smart things to say, I’ve kept my thoughts to myself. But if you’ll just spend time with me today, I promise I’ll show you a different side of me; you’ll see that I’m actually someone of real importance after all. (19)
(19) Or, "I will prove to you that I am worthy of infinite respect."
(19) Or, "I will show you that I deserve endless respect."
Socrates and the others, while thanking Callias politely for the invitation, were not disposed at first to join the dinner party; but the annoyance of the other so to be put off was so obvious that in the end the party were persuaded to accompany their host.
Socrates and the others, while politely thanking Callias for the invitation, were initially reluctant to join the dinner party; however, the discomfort of the others at being rejected was so clear that ultimately, they were convinced to accompany their host.
After an interval devoted to gymnastic exercise (and subsequent anointing of the limbs) by some, whilst others of them took a bath, the guests were severally presented to the master of the house.
After a break for some exercise (followed by a refreshing rub down of the limbs) while others took a bath, the guests were individually introduced to the host.
Autolycus was seated next his father, as was natural, (20) while the rest reclined on couches. Noting the scene presented, the first idea to strike the mind of any one must certainly have been that beauty has by nature something regal in it; and the more so, if it chance to be combined (as now in the person of Autolycus) with modesty and self-respect. Even as when a splendid object blazes forth at night, the eyes of men are riveted, (21) so now the beauty of Autolycus drew on him the gaze of all; nor was there one of those onlookers but was stirred to his soul's depth by him who sat there. (22) Some fell into unwonted silence, while the gestures of the rest were equally significant.
Autolycus was sitting next to his father, as was natural, while the others lounged on couches. Anyone observing the scene would have immediately thought that beauty has an inherent royal quality, especially when combined with modesty and self-respect, as was the case with Autolycus. Just like a magnificent object standing out at night captures people's attention, Autolycus's beauty drew everyone's gaze; not one person watching him was untouched to the depths of their soul. Some fell into an unusual silence, while the expressions of the others were equally telling.
(20) Al. "Autolycus found a seat beside his father, while the rest reclined on couches in the usual fashion." See Schneider's note. (21) Passage imitated by Max. Tyr. "Or." xxiv. 4. (22) Cf. Plat. "Charm." 154.
(20) Al. "Autolycus took a seat next to his father, while everyone else lounged on couches as usual." See Schneider's note. (21) Passage mimicked by Max. Tyr. "Or." xxiv. 4. (22) Cf. Plat. "Charm." 154.
It seems the look betokening divine possession, no matter who the god, must ever be remarkable. Only, whilst the subject of each commoner emotion passion-whirled may be distinguished by flashings of the eye, by terror-striking tones of voice, and by the vehement fervour of the man's whole being, so he who is inspired by temperate and harmonious love (23) will wear a look of kindlier welcome in his eyes; the words he utters fall from his lips with softer intonation; and every gesture of his bodily frame conform to what is truly frank and liberal. Such, at any rate, the strange effects now wrought on Callias by love. He was like one transformed, the cynosure of all initiated in the mysteries of this divinity. (24)
The expression of someone who seems to be touched by the divine, regardless of which god it is, is always striking. However, while a person overwhelmed by ordinary emotions might be recognized by their intense gaze, shocking tones, and the passionate intensity of their entire being, someone inspired by calm and harmonious love will have a friendlier look in their eyes. The words they speak come out with a softer tone, and every movement of their body reflects true openness and generosity. This is exactly how love has strangely affected Callias. He appeared completely transformed, the center of attention for all those familiar with the secrets of this divine experience.
(23) Cf. Plat. "Rep." iii. 403 A: "Whereas true love is a love of beauty and order, temperate and harmonious." (24) Cf. "Econ." xxi. 12.
(23) Cf. Plat. "Rep." iii. 403 A: "True love is a love of beauty and order, balanced and harmonious." (24) Cf. "Econ." xxi. 12.
So they supped in silence, the whole company, as if an injunction had been laid upon them by some superior power. But presently there came a knocking on the door! Philippus the jester bade the doorkeeper (25) announce him, with apologies for seeking a night's lodging: (26) he had come, he said, provided with all necessaries for dining, at a friend's expense: his attendant was much galled with carrying, nothing but an empty bread-basket. (27) To this announcement Callias, appealing to his guests, replied: "It would never do to begrudge the shelter of one's roof: (28) let him come in." And as he spoke, he glanced across to where Autolycus was seated, as if to say: "I wonder how you take the jest."
So they ate in silence, the whole group, as if some higher power had ordered it. But soon there was a knock at the door! Philippus the jester asked the doorkeeper (25) to announce him, apologizing for asking for a place to stay for the night: (26) he said he had come, ready with everything needed for dinner, at a friend's expense: his servant was struggling under the weight of nothing but an empty breadbasket. (27) To this announcement, Callias, addressing his guests, replied: "It wouldn’t be right to deny someone the shelter of our roof: (28) let him come in." And as he spoke, he looked over at Autolycus, as if to say: "I wonder how you’ll react to the joke."
(25) Lit. "him who answers the knock," "the concierge" or hall-porter. Cf. Theophr. "Char." xiv. 7; Aristot. "Oec." i. 6. (26) Lit. "and why he wished to put up." (27) Lit. "and being breakfastless"; cf. Theocr. i. 51. The jester's humour resembles Pistol's ("Merry Wives," i. 3. 23) "O base Hungarian wight!" (28) Or, "How say you, my friends, it would hardly do, methinks, to shut the door upon him." See Becker, "Charicles," p. 92.
(25) Literally, "the one who answers the knock," "the concierge" or hall-porter. See Theophr. "Char." xiv. 7; Aristot. "Oec." i. 6. (26) Literally, "and why he wanted to stay." (27) Literally, "and not having had breakfast"; see Theocr. i. 51. The jester's humor is similar to Pistol's ("Merry Wives," i. 3. 23) "Oh, lowly Hungarian guy!" (28) Or, "What do you say, my friends, it would probably not be right, I think, to shut the door on him." See Becker, "Charicles," p. 92.
Meanwhile the jester, standing at the door of the apartment where the feast was spread, addressed the company:
Meanwhile, the jester, standing at the door of the apartment where the feast was laid out, spoke to the guests:
I believe you know, sirs, that being a jester by profession, it is my business to make jokes. I am all the readier, therefore, to present myself, feeling convinced it is a better joke to come to dinner thus unbidden than by solemn invitation.
I think you all know, gentlemen, that as a professional jester, my job is to tell jokes. So, I'm even more eager to introduce myself, believing that it’s a funnier joke to show up for dinner uninvited than to come with a formal invitation.
Be seated, (29) then (replied the host). The company are fully fed on serious thoughts, you see, if somewhat starved of food for laughter.
Be seated, (29) then (replied the host). The group is well-fed on serious thoughts, you see, but a bit short on laughter.
(29) Lit. "Pray, find a couch then."
(29) Lit. "Please, find a couch then."
The feast proceeded; and, if only to discharge the duty laid upon him at a dinner-party, Philippus must try at once to perpetrate a jest. Failing to stir a smile, poor fellow, he made no secret of his perturbation. Presently he tried again; and for the second time the joke fell flat. Whereat he paused abruptly in the middle of the course, and muffling up his face, fell prostrate on the couch.
The feast went on; and, just to fulfill his obligation at the dinner party, Philippus had to try to make a joke. When he failed to get even a smile, the poor guy didn't hide his discomfort. He tried again, and once more, the joke didn’t land. At that, he suddenly stopped in the middle of the meal, buried his face in his hands, and collapsed onto the couch.
Then Callias: What ails you, sirrah? Have you the cramp? the toothache? what?
Then Callias: What's bothering you, buddy? Do you have cramps? A toothache? What is it?
To which the other heaving a deep groan: Yes, Callias, an atrocious ache; since laughter has died out among mankind, my whole estate is bankrupt. (30) In old days I would be asked to dinner to amuse the company with jests. (31) Now all is changed, and who will be at pains to ask me out to dinner any more? I might as well pretend to be immortal as to be serious. Nor will any one invite me in hopes of reclining at my board in his turn. Everyone knows so serious a thing as dinner in my house was never heard of; it's against the rules—the more's the pity.
To which the other let out a deep groan: Yes, Callias, it’s a terrible pain; since laughter has vanished from human life, my whole situation is a mess. (30) Back in the day, I would get invited to dinner to entertain the guests with jokes. (31) Now everything has changed, and who’s going to bother inviting me out to dinner anymore? I might as well pretend to be immortal as to be serious. Plus, no one will invite me hoping to enjoy a meal at my place in return. Everyone knows that having such a serious dinner at my house was never an option; it’s against the rules—the more’s the pity.
(30) Cf. "Cyrop." VI. i. 3; Plat. "Laws," 677 C. (31) Lit. "by the laughter which I stirred in them."
(30) Cf. "Cyrop." VI. i. 3; Plat. "Laws," 677 C. (31) Literally, "by the laughter I stirred up in them."
And as he spoke he blew his nose and snuffled, uttering the while so truly dolorous a moan (32) that everybody fell to soothing him. "They would all laugh again another day," they said, and so implored him to have done and eat his dinner; till Critobulus could not stand his lamentation longer, but broke into a peal of laughter. The welcome sound sufficed. The sufferer unveiled his face, and thus addressed his inner self: (33) "Be of good cheer, my soul, there are many battles (34) yet in store for us," and so he fell to discussing the viands once again.
And as he spoke, he blew his nose and sniffled, letting out such a genuinely sad moan that everyone rushed to comfort him. "They'll all laugh again another day," they said, urging him to stop and eat his dinner; until Critobulus could no longer handle his crying and burst into laughter. That sound was enough. The unhappy person uncovered his face and said to himself, "Cheer up, my soul, there are many battles ahead for us," and then he started talking about the food again.
(32) Philippus would seem to have anticipated Mr. Woodward; see Prologue to "She Stoops to Conquer":
(32) Philippus seems to have predicted Mr. Woodward; see Prologue to "She Stoops to Conquer":
Pray, would you know the reason I'm crying? The Comic Muse long sick is now a-dying! And if she goes...
Pray, do you know why I'm crying? The Comic Muse, long unwell, is now dying! And if she goes...
(33) Cf. "Cyrop." I. iv. 13; Eur. "Med." 1056, 1242; Aristoph. "Ach." 357, 480. (34) Or add, "ere we have expended our last shot." Philippus puns on the double sense of {sumbolai}. Cf. Aristoph. "Ach." 1210, where Lamachus groans {talas ego xumboles bareias}, and Dicaeopolis replies {tois Khousi gar tis xumbolas epratteto}.
(33) Cf. "Cyrop." I. iv. 13; Eur. "Med." 1056, 1242; Aristoph. "Ach." 357, 480. (34) Or add, "before we use our last shot." Philippus plays on the double meaning of {sumbolai}. Cf. Aristoph. "Ach." 1210, where Lamachus groans {talas ego xumboles bareias}, and Dicaeopolis replies {tois Khousi gar tis xumbolas epratteto}.
Lam. 'Twas at the final charge; I'd paid before A number of the rogues; at least a score.
Lam. It was during the last attack; I had already settled up With several of the crooks; at least twenty.
Dic. It was a most expensive charge you bore: Poor Lamachus! he was forced to pay the score.
Dic. It was a really hefty bill you covered: Poor Lamachus! he had to pick up the tab.
H. Frere.
H. Frere.
II
II
Now the tables were removed, and in due order they had poured out the libation, and had sung the hymn. (1) To promote the revelry, there entered now a Syracusan, with a trio of assistants: the first, a flute-girl, perfect in her art; and next, a dancing-girl, skilled to perform all kinds of wonders; lastly, in the bloom of beauty, a boy, who played the harp and danced with infinite grace. This Syracusan went about exhibiting his troupe, whose wonderful performance was a source of income to him.
Now the tables were cleared away, and they had poured out the drink offering and sung the song. (1) To liven up the party, a Syracusan entered with three helpers: first, a flute girl who was excellent at her craft; next, a dancing girl who could perform all sorts of amazing tricks; and finally, a beautiful boy who played the harp and danced with incredible grace. This Syracusan showcased his troupe, whose fantastic performances brought in money for him.
(1) See Plat. "Symp." 176 A; Athen. ix. 408.
(1) See Plat. "Symp." 176 A; Athen. ix. 408.
After the girl had played to them upon the flute, and then the boy in turn upon the harp, and both performers, as it would appear, had set the hearts of every one rejoicing, Socrates turned to Callias:
After the girl had played the flute for them, and then the boy played the harp in turn, and both performers seemed to have made everyone happy, Socrates turned to Callias:
A feast, upon my word, O princeliest entertainer! (2) Was it not enough to set before your guests a faultless dinner, but you must feast our eyes and ears on sights and sounds the most delicious?
A feast, I swear, O most royal host! (2) Was it not enough to serve your guests a perfect dinner, but you also had to delight our eyes and ears with the most amazing sights and sounds?
(2) Lit. "in consummate style."
(2) Lit. "in perfect style."
To which the host: And that reminds me, a supply of unguents might not be amiss; (3) what say you? Shall we feast on perfumes also? (4)
To which the host replied: And that reminds me, we might want to have some lotions on hand; (3) what do you think? Should we indulge in some fragrances too? (4)
(3) Lit. "suppose I tell the servant to bring in some perfumes, so that we may further feast on fragrance..." Cf. Theophr. "Char." vii. 6 (Jebb ad loc.) (4) See Athen. xv. 686.
(3) Lit. "imagine I ask the servant to bring in some perfumes, so that we can enjoy the scent even more..." Cf. Theophr. "Char." vii. 6 (Jebb ad loc.) (4) See Athen. xv. 686.
No, I protest (the other answered). Scents resemble clothes. One dress is beautiful on man and one on woman; and so with fragrance: what becomes the woman, ill becomes the man. Did ever man anoint himself with oil of myrrh to please his fellow? Women, and especially young women (like our two friends' brides, Niceratus' and Critobulus'), need no perfume, being but compounds themselves of fragrance. (5) No, sweeter than any perfume else to women is good olive-oil, suggestive of the training-school: (6) sweet if present, and when absent longed for. And why? Distinctions vanish with the use of perfumes. The freeman and the slave have forthwith both alike one odour. But the scents derived from toils—those toils which every free man loves (7)—need customary habit first, and time's distillery, if they are to be sweet with freedom's breath, at last. (8)
No, I disagree, the other responded. Scents are like clothing. A dress looks beautiful on a man and another looks nice on a woman; it's the same with fragrance: what suits a woman doesn't necessarily suit a man. Has any man ever used myrrh oil to impress another man? Women, especially young women (like our two friends' brides, Niceratus' and Critobulus'), don't need perfume since they are already a blend of fragrances. No, better than any perfume for women is good olive oil, reminiscent of the training ground: sweet when it's there, and missed when it’s not. And why is that? Differences disappear with the use of perfumes. The free man and the slave immediately smell the same. But the scents that come from labor—those labors that every free man values—require familiar habit first, and time's process, if they are to finally carry the essence of freedom.
(5) Cf. Solomon's Song, iv. 10: "How fair is thy love, my sister, my spouse! how much better is thy love than wine! and the smell of thine ointments than all spices!" (6) Lit. "the gymnasium." (7) Cf. Aristoph. "Clouds," 1002 foll. See J. A. Symonds, "The Greek Poets," 1st s., p. 281. (8) See "Mem." III. x. 5; "Cyrop." VIII. i. 43.
(5) See Solomon's Song, iv. 10: "How beautiful is your love, my sister, my spouse! How much better is your love than wine! And the scent of your perfumes is better than all spices!" (6) Literally, "the gymnasium." (7) See Aristophanes, "Clouds," 1002 and following. Refer to J. A. Symonds, "The Greek Poets," 1st series, p. 281. (8) Check "Mem." III. x. 5; "Cyrop." VIII. i. 43.
Here Lycon interposed: That may be well enough for youths, but what shall we do whose gymnastic days are over? What fragrance is left for us?
Here Lycon interjected: That might be fine for young people, but what about those of us whose athletic days are behind us? What scent is still available to us?
Soc. Why, that of true nobility, of course.
Soc. Well, that's about true nobility, obviously.
Lyc. And whence shall a man obtain this chrism?
Lyc. And where can a person get this chrism?
Soc. Not from those that sell perfumes and unguents, in good sooth.
Soc. Not from those who sell perfumes and ointments, truly.
Lyc. But whence, then?
Where's that from, then?
Soc. Theognis has told us:
Soc. Theognis has told us:
From the good thou shalt learn good things, but if with the evil Thou holdest converse, thou shalt lose the wit that is in thee. (9) (9) Theog. 35 foll. See "Mem." I. ii. 20; Plat. "Men." 95 D.
From the good, you will learn good things, but if you associate with the evil, you will lose the wisdom within you. (9) (9) Theog. 35 foll. See "Mem." I. ii. 20; Plat. "Men." 95 D.
Lyc. (turning to his son). Do you hear that, my son?
Lyc. (turning to his son). Do you hear that, son?
That he does (Socrates answered for the boy), and he puts the precept into practice also; to judge, at any rate, from his behaviour. When he had set his heart on carrying off the palm of victory in the pankration, he took you into his counsel; (10) and will again take counsel to discover the fittest friend to aid him in his high endeavour, (11) and with this friend associate.
That he does (Socrates answered for the boy), and he puts the lesson into practice too, judging by his behavior. When he decided to win the victory in the pankration, he sought your advice; and he will seek advice again to find the best friend to help him in his important goal, and he will associate with that friend.
(10) It looks as if something had been lost intimating that Autolycus would have need of some one to instruct him in spiritual things. For attempts to fill up the lacuna see Schenkl. (11) Or, "these high pursuits."
(10) It seems like something was lost, suggesting that Autolycus would need someone to teach him about spiritual matters. For efforts to fill the gap, see Schenkl. (11) Or, "these lofty goals."
Thereupon several of the company exclaimed at once. "Where will he find a teacher to instruct him in that wisdom?" one inquired. "Why, it is not to be taught!" exclaimed another; to which a third rejoined: "Why should it not be learnt as well as other things?" (12)
Thereupon several people in the group shouted at once. "Where will he find a teacher to teach him that wisdom?" one asked. "Well, it can't be taught!" shouted another; to which a third replied: "Why shouldn't it be learned just like anything else?" (12)
(12) Cf. for the question {ei arete didakton}, "Mem." I. ii. 19; IV. i; "Cyrop." III. i. 17; III. iii. 53.
(12) Cf. for the question {ei arete didakton}, "Mem." I. ii. 19; IV. i; "Cyrop." III. i. 17; III. iii. 53.
Then Socrates: The question would seem at any rate to be debatable. Suppose we defer it till another time, and for the present not interrupt the programme of proceedings. I see, the dancing-girl is standing ready; they are handing her some hoops.
Then Socrates: This question seems like it could be debated. Let's postpone it for now and not disrupt the current schedule. I see the dancer is ready; they are giving her some hoops.
And at the instant her fellow with the flute commenced a tune to keep her company, whilst some one posted at her side kept handing her the hoops till she had twelve in all. With these in her hands she fell to dancing, and the while she danced she flung the hoops into the air—overhead she sent them twirling—judging the height they must be thrown to catch them, as they fell, in perfect time. (13)
And just as her partner with the flute started playing a tune to keep her company, someone next to her kept handing her hoops until she had a total of twelve. With those in her hands, she began to dance, tossing the hoops into the air—she sent them spinning overhead—calculating how high to throw them so she could catch them perfectly as they fell. (13)
(13) "In time with the music and the measure of the dance."
(13) "In sync with the music and the rhythm of the dance."
Then Socrates: The girl's performance is one proof among a host of others, sirs, that woman's nature is nowise inferior to man's. All she wants is strength and judgment; (14) and that should be an encouragement to those of you who have wives, to teach them whatever you would have them know as your associates. (15)
Then Socrates: The girl's performance is just one example among many, gentlemen, that proves a woman's nature is not at all inferior to a man's. All she needs is strength and good judgment; and that should encourage those of you who have wives to teach them whatever you want them to know as your partners.
(14) Reading, as vulg. {gnomes de kai iskhuos deitai}; al. continuing {ouden} from the first half of the sentence, transl. "she has no lack of either judgment or physical strength." Lange conj. {romes} for {gnomes}, "all she needs is force and strength of body." See Newman, op. cit. i. 419. (15) Lit. "so that, if any of you has a wife, he may well take heart and teach her whatever he would wish her to know in dealing with her." Cf. "N. A." i. 17.
(14) Reading, as commonly interpreted: she has no shortage of judgment or physical strength. Lange suggests using "force" instead of "judgment," meaning "all she needs is force and physical strength." See Newman, op. cit. i. 419. (15) Literally: "so that, if any of you has a wife, he can confidently teach her whatever he thinks she should know in her dealings." See "N. A." i. 17.
Antisthenes rejoined: If that is your conclusion, Socrates, why do you not tutor your own wife, Xanthippe, (16) instead of letting her (17) remain, of all the wives that are, indeed that ever will be, I imagine, the most shrewish?
Antisthenes replied: If that's your conclusion, Socrates, why don't you teach your own wife, Xanthippe, instead of letting her remain, of all the wives that exist, and I guess ever will exist, the most nagging?
(16) See Cobet, "Pros. Xen." p. 56; "Mem." II. ii. 1; Aul. Gell. "N. A." i. 17. (17) Lit. "dealing with her," "finding in her"; {khro} corresponding to {khresthai} in Socrates' remarks.
(16) See Cobet, "Pros. Xen." p. 56; "Mem." II. ii. 1; Aul. Gell. "N. A." i. 17. (17) Literally "dealing with her," "finding in her"; {khro} matching {khresthai} in Socrates' comments.
Well now, I will tell you (he answered). I follow the example of the rider who wishes to become an expert horseman: "None of your soft-mouthed, docile animals for me," he says; "the horse for me to own must show some spirit": (18) in the belief, no doubt, if he can manage such an animal, it will be easy enough to deal with every other horse besides. And that is just my case. I wish to deal with human beings, to associate with man in general; hence my choice of wife. (19) I know full well, if I can tolerate her spirit, I can with ease attach myself to every human being else.
Well, let me explain (he answered). I’m following the example of a rider who wants to become a great horseman: “I don’t want any easy-going, gentle horses,” he says; “the horse I want to own must have some fire.” (18) He believes that if he can handle such a horse, he’ll be able to manage any other horse as well. That’s exactly my situation. I want to interact with people and connect with humanity in general; that’s why I chose my wife. (19) I know for sure that if I can handle her strong personality, I can easily connect with anyone else.
(18) Lit. "Because I see the man who aims at skill in horsemanship does not care to own a soft-mouthed, docile animal, but some restive, fiery creature." (19) Lit. "being anxious to have intercourse with all mankind, to deal with every sort of human being, I possess my wife."
(18) "Because I see that a person who wants to be skilled at riding doesn't want a gentle, easy-going horse, but rather a spirited, high-energy one." (19) "Wanting to connect with everyone and interact with all kinds of people, I have my wife."
A well-aimed argument, not wide of the mark by any means! (20) the company were thinking.
A thoughtful argument, definitely on point! (20) the company thought.
(20) Cf. Plat. "Theaet." 179 C.
(20) Cf. Plat. "Theaet." 179 C.
Hereupon a large hoop studded with a bristling row of upright swords (21) was introduced; and into the centre of this ring of knives and out of it again the girl threw somersaults backwards, forwards, several times, till the spectators were in terror of some accident; but with the utmost coolness and without mishap the girl completed her performance.
Here, a large hoop lined with a sharp row of upright swords (21) was brought in; the girl then threw herself into the center of this ring of blades and back out again, performing somersaults forwards and backwards several times, making the spectators fearful of an accident. However, she finished her act with complete calm and without any injury.
(21) See Becker, "Char." p. 101. Cf. Plat. "Symp." 190; "Euthyd." 294.
(21) See Becker, "Char." p. 101. Cf. Plat. "Symp." 190; "Euthyd." 294.
Here Socrates, appealing to Antisthenes: None of the present company, I take it, who have watched this spectacle will ever again deny that courage can be taught, (22) when the girl there, woman should she be, rushes so boldly into the midst of swords.
Here Socrates, addressing Antisthenes: I doubt that anyone here, having witnessed this scene, will ever deny again that courage can be taught, (22) when that girl, or rather woman, fearlessly charges into the midst of swords.
(22) Cf. "Mem." III. ix. 1.
(22) Cf. "Mem." III. ix. 1.
He, thus challenged, answered: No; and what our friend, the Syracusan here, should do is to exhibit his dancing-girl to the state. (23) Let him tell the authorities he is prepared, for a consideration, to give the whole Athenian people courage to face the hostile lances at close quarters.
He, faced with the challenge, replied: No; and what our buddy from Syracuse should do is show his dancing girl to the state. (23) He should tell the authorities that he is ready, for a fee, to give the entire Athenian people the courage to confront the enemy’s lances up close.
(23) Or, "to the city," i.e. of Athens.
(23) Or, "to the city," meaning Athens.
Whereat the jester: An excellent idea, upon my word; and when it happens, may I be there to see that mighty orator (24) Peisander learning to throw somersaults (25) into swords; since incapacity to look a row of lances in the face at present makes him shy of military service. (26)
Where the jester joked: That's a brilliant idea, I must say; and when it happens, I hope I’m there to see that great speaker Peisander learning to do flips into swords, since he's too scared to face a row of lances right now to enlist in the military.
(24) Or, "tribune of the people." Cf. Plat. "Gorg." 520 B; "Laws," 908 D. (25) Or, "learning to go head over heels into swords." (26) For Peisander see Cobet, "Pros. Xen." p. 46 foll. A thoroughgoing oligarch (Thuc. viii. 90), he was the occasion of much mirth to the comic writers (so Grote, "H. G." viii. 12). See re his "want of spirit" Aristoph. "Birds," 1556:
(24) Or, "representative of the people." Cf. Plat. "Gorg." 520 B; "Laws," 908 D. (25) Or, "learning to flip over into swords." (26) For Peisander, see Cobet, "Pros. Xen." p. 46 foll. A staunch oligarch (Thuc. viii. 90), he provided a lot of laughter for comic writers (so Grote, "H. G." viii. 12). See regarding his "lack of spirit" in Aristoph. "Birds," 1556:
{entha kai Peisandros elthe deomenos psukhen idein, e zont ekeinon proulipe, k.t.l.}
{entha kai Peisandros elthe deomenos psukhen idein, e zont ekeinon proulipe, k.t.l.}
where the poet has a fling at Socrates also:
where the poet pokes fun at Socrates too:
Socrates beside the brink, Summons from the murky sink Many a disembodied ghost; And Peisander reached the coast To raise the spirit that he lost; With conviction strange and new, A gawky camel which he slew, Like Ulysses.—Whereupon, etc.
Socrates by the edge, calls from the dark water many lost souls; And Peisander arrived at the shore to bring back the spirit he had lost; with a strange and new conviction, he killed an awkward camel, similar to Ulysses. —Whereupon, etc.
H. Frere
H. Frere
Cf. "Peace," 395; "Lysistr." 490.
Cf. "Peace," 395; "Lysistr." 490.
At this stage of the proceedings the boy danced.
At this point in the proceedings, the boy danced.
The dance being over, Socrates exclaimed: Pray, did you notice how the beauty of the child, so lovely in repose, became enhanced with every movement of his supple body?
The dance finished, Socrates said: "Hey, did you see how the child's beauty, so lovely when still, was even more striking with every movement of his flexible body?"
To which Charmides replied: How like a flatterer you are! one would think you had set yourself to puff the dancing-master. (27)
To which Charmides replied: You're such a flatterer! It seems like you're really trying to boost the dancing teacher's ego. (27)
(27) See "The Critic," I. ii.
(27) See "The Critic," I. ii.
To be sure (he answered solemnly); and there's another point I could not help observing: how while he danced no portion of his body remained idle; neck and legs and hands together, one and all were exercised. (28) That is how a man should dance, who wants to keep his body light and healthy. (29) (Then turning to the Syracusan, he added): I cannot say how much obliged I should be to you, O man of Syracuse, for lessons in deportment. Pray teach me my steps. (30)
To be sure, he replied seriously; and there's something else I noticed: while he danced, every part of his body was moving—his neck, legs, and hands were all involved. That’s how a person should dance if they want to stay light and healthy. Then, turning to the Syracusan, he added: I can’t tell you how grateful I would be to you, O man of Syracuse, for lessons in how to carry myself. Please teach me my steps.
(28) Cf. "Pol. Lac." v. 9. (29) Cf. Aristot. "H. A." vi. 21. 4. (30) "Gestures," "postures," "figures." See Eur. "Cycl." 221; Aristoph. "Peace," 323; Isocr. "Antid." 183.
(28) Cf. "Pol. Lac." v. 9. (29) Cf. Aristot. "H. A." vi. 21. 4. (30) "Gestures," "postures," "figures." See Eur. "Cycl." 221; Aristoph. "Peace," 323; Isocr. "Antid." 183.
And what use will you make of them? (the other asked).
And how will you use them? (the other asked).
God bless me! I shall dance, of course (he answered).
God bless me! I’m definitely going to dance, of course (he replied).
The remark was greeted with a peal of merriment.
The comment was met with a burst of laughter.
Then Socrates, with a most serious expression of countenance: (31) You are pleased to laugh at me. Pray, do you find it so ridiculous my wishing to improve my health by exercise? or to enjoy my victuals better? to sleep better? or is it the sort of exercise I set my heart on? Not like those runners of the long race, (32) to have my legs grow muscular and my shoulders leaner in proportion; nor like a boxer, thickening chest and shoulders at expense of legs; but by distribution of the toil throughout my limbs (33) I seek to give an even balance to my body. Or are you laughing to think that I shall not in future have to seek a partner in the training school, (34) whereby it will not be necessary for an old man like myself to strip in public? (35) All I shall need will be a seven-sofa'd chamber, (36) where I can warm to work, (37) just like the lad here who has found this room quite ample for the purpose. And in winter I shall do gymnastics (38) under cover, or when the weather is broiling under shade.... But what is it you keep on laughing at—the wish on my part to reduce to moderate size a paunch a trifle too rotund? Is that the source of merriment? (39) Perhaps you are not aware, my friends, that Charmides—yes! he there—caught me only the other morning in the act of dancing?
Then Socrates, with a very serious expression on his face: (31) You find it amusing to laugh at me. Do you really think it’s that ridiculous for me to want to improve my health through exercise? Or to enjoy my food more? To sleep better? Or is it about the kind of exercise I’m focusing on? I’m not trying to be like those long-distance runners, (32) getting muscular legs and leaner shoulders; nor do I want to be like a boxer, building up my chest and shoulders at the expense of my legs. I want to spread the effort across all my limbs (33) to achieve a balanced body. Or are you laughing because you think I will no longer need to find a training partner in the gym (34), so I won’t have to strip down in public like an old man? (35) All I’ll need is a room with seven couches (36) where I can warm up to work out, (37) just like this young man here who has found this space more than enough. In winter, I’ll do my workouts (38) indoors or, when it’s scorching outside, in the shade... But what exactly are you laughing at—the idea that I want to shrink my somewhat too big belly? Is that what’s so funny? (39) Perhaps you’re not aware, my friends, that Charmides—yes, that guy over there—caught me dancing just the other morning?
(31) "Bearing a weighty and serious brow." (32) "Like your runner of the mile race." Cf. Plat. "Prot." 335 E. (33) Or, "resolute exercise of the whole body." See Aristot. "Pol." viii. 4. 9; "Rhet." i. 5. 14. (34) Or, "be dependent on a fellow-gymnast." "Pol. Lac." ix. 5; Plat. "Soph." 218 B; "Laws," 830 B; "Symp." 217 B, C. (35) Or, "to strip in public when my hair turns gray." Socrates was (421 B.C.) about 50, but is pictured, I think, as an oldish man. (36) See Aristot. "H. A." ix. 45. 1; "Econ." viii. 13. (37) Passage referred to by Diog. Laert. ii. 5. 15; Lucian, "de Salt." 25; Plut. "Praec. San." 496. (38) "Take my exercise." (39) Zeune cf. Max. Tyr. "Diss." vii. 9; xxxix. 5.
(31) "Wearing a thoughtful and serious expression." (32) "Like your mile race runner." Cf. Plat. "Prot." 335 E. (33) Or, "determined activity of the entire body." See Aristot. "Pol." viii. 4. 9; "Rhet." i. 5. 14. (34) Or, "be reliant on another gymnast." "Pol. Lac." ix. 5; Plat. "Soph." 218 B; "Laws," 830 B; "Symp." 217 B, C. (35) Or, "to undress in public when my hair turns gray." Socrates was (421 B.C.) about 50, but is depicted, I think, as an older man. (36) See Aristot. "H. A." ix. 45. 1; "Econ." viii. 13. (37) Passage referenced by Diog. Laert. ii. 5. 15; Lucian, "de Salt." 25; Plut. "Praec. San." 496. (38) "Go exercise." (39) Zeune cf. Max. Tyr. "Diss." vii. 9; xxxix. 5.
Yes, that I will swear to (the other answered), and at first I stood aghast, I feared me you had parted with your senses; but when I heard your explanation, pretty much what you have just now told us, I went home and—I will not say, began to dance myself (it is an accomplishment I have not been taught as yet), but I fell to sparring, (40) an art of which I have a very pretty knowledge.
Yes, I promise I will swear to that (the other replied), and at first I was shocked; I thought you had lost your mind. But when I heard your explanation, pretty much what you just told us, I went home and—I won’t say I started dancing myself (it’s a skill I haven’t learned yet), but I started sparring, which is something I know quite well.
(40) "Sparring," etc., an art which Quintil. "Inst. Or." i. 11, 17, attributes to Socrates. Cf. Herod. vi. 129 concerning Hippocleides; and Rich, "Dict. of Antiq." s.v. "Chironomia."
(40) "Sparring," etc., an art that Quintil. "Inst. Or." i. 11, 17, attributes to Socrates. See Herod. vi. 129 regarding Hippocleides; and Rich, "Dict. of Antiq." s.v. "Chironomia."
That's true, upon my life! (exclaimed the jester). One needs but look at you to see there's not a dram of difference between legs and shoulders. (41) I'll be bound, if both were weighed in the scales apart, like "tops and bottoms," the clerks of the market (42) would let you off scot-free.
That's true, I swear! (exclaimed the jester). All you have to do is look at you to see there's hardly any difference between your legs and your shoulders. (41) I bet if both were weighed separately, like "tops and bottoms," the market clerks (42) would let you go without a fine.
(41) Lit. "your legs are equal in weight with your shoulders." Cf. "Od." xviii. 373, {elikes... isophoroi boes}, "of equal age and force to bear the yoke."—Butcher and Lang. (42) See Boeckh, "Public Economy of Athens," p. 48; Aristoph. "Acharn." 723; Lys. 165, 34.
(41) Literally, "your legs weigh the same as your shoulders." Compare "Od." xviii. 373, {elikes... isophoroi boes}, "of equal age and strength to carry the yoke." —Butcher and Lang. (42) See Boeckh, "Public Economy of Athens," p. 48; Aristoph. "Acharn." 723; Lys. 165, 34.
Then Callias: O Socrates, do please invite me when you begin your dancing lessons. I will be your vis-a-vis, (43) and take lessons with you.
Then Callias: O Socrates, please invite me when you start your dancing lessons. I’ll be your partner and take lessons with you.
(43) Cf. "Anab." V. iv. 12.
(43) Cf. "Anab." V. iv. 12.
Come on (the jester shouted), give us a tune upon the pipe, and let me show you how to dance.
Come on (the jester shouted), play us a tune on the pipe, and let me show you how to dance.
So saying up he got, and mimicked the dances of the boy and girl in burlesque fashion, and inasmuch as the spectators had been pleased to think the natural beauty of the boy enhanced by every gesture of his body in the dance, so the jester must give a counter-representation, (44) in which each twist and movement of his body was a comical exaggeration of nature.
So saying, he got up and imitated the dances of the boy and girl in a funny way. Since the audience had enjoyed how the boy’s natural beauty was highlighted with every move he made in the dance, the jester had to offer a parody, where every twist and movement of his body was a humorous exaggeration of nature.
(44) Reading {antepedeizen}. Cf. Plat. "Theaet." 162 B; "Ages." i. 12; if vulg. {antapedeizen}, transl. "would prove per contra each bend," etc. Cf. Aristot. "Rhet." ii. 26. 3.
(44) Reading {antepedeizen}. Cf. Plat. "Theaet." 162 B; "Ages." i. 12; if vulg. {antapedeizen}, transl. "would prove per contra each bend," etc. Cf. Aristot. "Rhet." ii. 26. 3.
And since the girl had bent herself backwards and backwards, till she was nearly doubled into the form of a hoop, so he must try to imitate a hoop by stooping forwards and ducking down his head.
And since the girl had bent herself backward and backward, until she was almost doubled into the shape of a hoop, he had to try to imitate a hoop by leaning forward and ducking his head down.
And as finally, the boy had won a round of plaudits for the manner in which he kept each muscle of the body in full exercise whilst dancing, so now the jester, bidding the flute-girl quicken the time (presto! presto! prestissimo!), fell to capering madly, tossing legs and arms and head together, until he was fairly tired out, and threw himself dead beat upon the sofa, gasping:
And finally, the boy received applause for how he kept every muscle in his body active while dancing. Now, the jester, urging the flute-girl to pick up the pace (faster! faster! even faster!), started jumping around wildly, flailing his legs, arms, and head until he was completely worn out and collapsed onto the sofa, breathing heavily:
There, that's a proof that my jigs too are splendid exercise; at any rate, I am dying of thirst; let the attendant kindly fill me the mighty goblet. (45)
There, that's proof that my jigs are also great exercise; anyway, I'm dying of thirst; could the attendant please fill my large goblet? (45)
(45) Cf. Plat. "Symp." 223 C.
(45) Cf. Plat. "Symp." 223 C.
Quite right (said Callias), and we will pledge you. Our throats are parched with laughing at you.
Quite right (said Callias), and we’ll support you. Our throats are dry from laughing at you.
At this point Socrates: Nay, gentlemen, if drinking is the order of the day, I heartily approve. Wine it is in very truth that moistens the soul of man, (46) that lulls at once all cares to sleep, even as mandragora (47) drugs our human senses, and at the same time kindles light-hearted thoughts, (48) as oil a flame. Yet it fares with the banquets of men, (49) if I mistake not, precisely as with plants that spring and shoot on earth. When God gives these vegetable growths too full a draught of rain, they cannot lift their heads nor feel the light air breathe through them; but if they drink in only the glad supply they need, they stand erect, they shoot apace, and reach maturity of fruitage. So we, too, if we drench our throats with over-copious draughts, (50) ere long may find our legs begin to reel and our thoughts begin to falter; (51) we shall scarce be able to draw breath, much less to speak a word in season. But if (to borrow language from the mint of Gorgias (52)), if only the attendants will bedew us with a frequent mizzle (53) of small glasses, we shall not be violently driven on by wine to drunkenness, but with sweet seduction reach the goal of sportive levity.
At this point Socrates: No, gentlemen, if drinking is on the agenda today, I'm all for it. Wine truly nourishes the soul, putting all worries to rest, just like mandrake dulls our senses, while also sparking cheerful thoughts, like oil igniting a flame. However, it seems that banquets resemble plants growing on the earth. When God gives these plants too much rain, they can’t lift their heads or feel the fresh air; but if they get just the right amount they need, they stand tall, grow quickly, and bear fruit. Similarly, if we overindulge our throats, soon we might find ourselves swaying and our thoughts drifting; we’ll hardly be able to catch our breath, much less speak at the right moment. But if (to borrow from Gorgias) the attendants can sprinkle us with a light drizzle of small glasses, we won’t be forcefully pushed into drunkenness, but rather gently led to a state of playful lightness.
(46) Cf. Plat. "Laws," 649; Aristoph. "Knights," 96:
(46) Cf. Plato, "Laws," 649; Aristophanes, "Knights," 96:
Come, quick now, bring me a lusty stoup of wine, To moisten my understanding and inspire me (H. Frere).
Come on, hurry up, bring me a hearty mug of wine, To refresh my mind and motivate me (H. Frere).
(47) Cf. Plat. "Rep." vi. 488 C; Dem. "Phil." iv. 133. 1; Lucian v., "Tim." 2; lxxiii., "Dem. Enc." 36. See "Othello," iii. 3. 330:
(47) Cf. Plat. "Rep." vi. 488 C; Dem. "Phil." iv. 133. 1; Lucian v., "Tim." 2; lxxiii., "Dem. Enc." 36. See "Othello," iii. 3. 330:
Not poppy, nor mandragora, Nor all the drowsy syrups of the world;
Not poppy, nor mandrake, Nor all the sleepy syrups in the world;
"Antony and Cl." i. 5, 4. (48) Cf. 1 Esdras iii. 20: "It turneth also every thought into jollity and mirth," {eis euokhian kai euphrosunen}. The whole passage is quoted by Athen. 504. Stob. "Fl." lvi. 17. (49) Reading {sumposia}, cf. Theog. 298, 496; or if after Athen. {somata} transl. "persons." (50) Or, "if we swallow at a gulp the liquor." Cf. Plat. "Sym." 176 D. (51) See "Cyrop." I. iii. 10, VIII. viii. 10; Aristoph. "Wasps," 1324; "Pol. Lac." v. 7. (52) For phrases filed by Gorgias, see Aristot. "Rhet." iii. 3; "faults of taste in the use of metaphors," Longin. "de Subl." 3. See also Plat. "Symp." 198 C. (53) Cf. Aristoph. "Peace," 1141; Theophr. "Lap." 13; Lucian, xvii., "De merc. cond." 27; Cic. "Cat. m." 14, transl. "pocula... minuta atque rorantia."
"Antony and Cl." i. 5, 4. (48) See 1 Esdras iii. 20: "It turns every thought into joy and laughter," {eis euokhian kai euphrosunen}. The entire passage is quoted by Athen. 504. Stob. "Fl." lvi. 17. (49) Reading {sumposia}, see Theog. 298, 496; or if after Athen. {somata} translate as "people." (50) Or, "if we drink the liquor in one go." See Plat. "Sym." 176 D. (51) Refer to "Cyrop." I. iii. 10, VIII. viii. 10; Aristoph. "Wasps," 1324; "Pol. Lac." v. 7. (52) For phrases cited by Gorgias, see Aristot. "Rhet." iii. 3; "issues of taste in metaphor usage," Longin. "de Subl." 3. Also see Plat. "Symp." 198 C. (53) See Aristoph. "Peace," 1141; Theophr. "Lap." 13; Lucian, xvii., "De merc. cond." 27; Cic. "Cat. m." 14, translate as "small cups... dripping."
The proposition was unanimously carried, with a rider appended by Philippus: The cup-bearers should imitate good charioteers, and push the cups round, quickening the pace each circuit. (54)
The proposal was approved unanimously, with an addition made by Philippus: The cup-bearers should act like skilled charioteers and serve the drinks quickly, increasing the speed with each round. (54)
(54) Or, "at something faster than a hand-gallop each round." See the drinking song in "Antony and Cl." i. 7. 120.
(54) Or, "at something faster than a hand-gallop each round." See the drinking song in "Antony and Cl." i. 7. 120.
III
III
During this interval, whilst the cup-bearers carried out their duties, the boy played on the lyre tuned to accompany the flute, and sang. (1)
During this time, while the cup-bearers did their job, the boy played the lyre to go along with the flute and sang. (1)
(1) Cf. Plat. "Laws," 812 C; Aristot. "Poet." i. 4.
(1) See Plato, "Laws," 812 C; Aristotle, "Poetics" i. 4.
The performance won the plaudits of the company, and drew from Charmides a speech as follows: Sirs, what Socrates was claiming in behalf of wine applies in my opinion no less aptly to the present composition. So rare a blending of boyish and of girlish beauty, and of voice with instrument, is potent to lull sorrow to sleep, and to kindle Aphrodite's flame.
The performance received praise from the company and prompted Charmides to say: “Gentlemen, what Socrates said about wine fits just as perfectly with this piece. Such a unique mix of youthful beauty, both masculine and feminine, along with voice and instrument, can soothe sorrow and ignite the passion of love.”
Then Socrates, reverting in a manner to the charge: The young people have fully proved their power to give us pleasure. Yet, charming as they are, we still regard ourselves, no doubt, as much their betters. What a shame to think that we should here be met together, and yet make no effort ourselves to heighten the festivity! (2)
Then Socrates, returning to the accusation: The young people have truly shown they can bring us joy. Yet, as delightful as they are, we still consider ourselves, without a doubt, their superiors. How unfortunate to think that we should gather here and not even try to enhance the celebration! (2)
(2) See Plat. "Prot." 347 D; "A company like this of ours, and men such as we profess to be, do not require the help of another's voice," etc.—Jowett. Cf. id. "Symp." 176: "To-day let us have conversation instead; and if you will allow me, I will tell you what sort of conversation."
(2) See Plat. "Prot." 347 D; "A company like ours, made up of men like us, don't need someone else to speak for us," etc.—Jowett. Cf. id. "Symp." 176: "Today, let's just talk instead; and if you don't mind, I'll share what kind of conversation I have in mind."
Several of the company exclaimed at once: Be our director then yourself. Explain what style of talk we should engage in to achieve that object. (3)
Several of the company exclaimed at once: "Then you should be our director yourself. Explain what kind of conversation we should have to accomplish that." (3)
(3) {exegou}. "Prescribe the form of words we must lay hold of to achieve the object, and we will set to work, arch-casuist."
(3) {exegou}. "Tell us the exact words we need to use to reach our goal, and we'll get started, master of legal argument."
Nothing (he replied) would please me better than to demand of Callias a prompt performance of his promise. He told us, you recollect, if we would dine with him, he would give us an exhibition of his wisdom.
Nothing (he replied) would please me more than to ask Callias to quickly fulfill his promise. You remember he said that if we dined with him, he would show us his wisdom.
To which challenge Callias: That I will readily, but you on your side, one and all, must propound some virtue of which you claim to have the knowledge.
To which challenge Callias replied: "I will gladly accept that, but you all must also suggest some virtue that you claim to know about."
Socrates replied: At any rate, not one of us will have the least objection to declaring what particular thing he claims to know as best worth having.
Socrates replied: Anyway, none of us will object to stating what specific thing he believes is the most valuable to have.
Agreed (proceeded Callias); and for my part I proclaim at once what I am proudest of. My firm belief is, I have got the gift to make my fellow-mortals better.
Agreed, said Callias; and for my part, I’ll immediately share what I’m most proud of. I truly believe that I have the ability to make my fellow humans better.
Make men better! (cried Antisthenes); and pray how? by teaching them some base mechanic art? or teaching them nobility of soul? (4)
Make men better! (cried Antisthenes); and how exactly? By teaching them some lowly trade? Or by instilling nobility of spirit? (4)
(4) Or, "beauty and nobility of soul" ({kalokagathia}). See "Mem." I. vi. 14.
(4) Or, "the beauty and nobility of the soul" ({kalokagathia}). See "Mem." I. vi. 14.
The latter (he replied), if justice (5) be synonymous with that high type of virtue.
The latter, he replied, if justice (5) is the same as that high standard of virtue.
(5) i.e. "social uprightness."
(5) i.e. "social responsibility."
Of course it is (rejoined Antisthenes) the most indisputable specimen. Since, look you, courage and wisdom may at times be found calamitous to friends or country, (6) but justice has no single point in common with injustice, right and wrong cannot commingle. (7)
Of course it is, Antisthenes replied, the most undeniable example. You see, courage and wisdom can sometimes be disastrous for friends or the country, but justice has nothing in common with injustice; right and wrong cannot mix.
(6) See "Mem." IV. ii. 33. (7) i.e. "the one excludes the other."
(6) See "Mem." IV. ii. 33. (7) That is, "one excludes the other."
Well then (proceeded Callias), as soon (8) as every one has stated his peculiar merit, (9) I will make no bones of letting you into my secret. You shall learn the art by which I consummate my noble end. (10) So now, Niceratus, suppose you tell us on what knowledge you most pride yourself.
Well then (started Callias), as soon (8) as everyone has shared their unique skills, (9) I won’t hesitate to reveal my secret. You’ll find out the method I use to achieve my noble goal. (10) So now, Niceratus, why don’t you tell us what knowledge you take the most pride in?
(8) Reading {emon}. Al. {umon}, "when you others." (9) Lit. "what he has for which to claim utility." (10) Or, "give the work completeness." Cf. Plat. "Charm." 173 A; "Gorg." 454 A.
(8) Reading {emon}. Al. {umon}, "when you guys." (9) Lit. "what he has that can be used." (10) Or, "make the work whole." Cf. Plat. "Charm." 173 A; "Gorg." 454 A.
He answered: My father, (11) in his pains to make me a good man, compelled me to learn the whole of Homer's poems, and it so happens that even now I can repeat the "Iliad" and the "Odyssey" by heart. (12)
He replied, "My dad, in his efforts to raise me to be a good person, made me memorize all of Homer's poems, and it turns out I can still recite the 'Iliad' and the 'Odyssey' from memory."
(11) Nicias. (12) Of, "off-hand." See "Mem." III. vi. 9; Plat. "Theaet." 142 D.
(11) Nicias. (12) Of, "off-hand." See "Mem." III. vi. 9; Plat. "Theaet." 142 D.
You have not forgotten (interposed Antisthenes), perhaps, that besides yourself there is not a rhapsodist who does not know these epics?
You haven't forgotten, have you (interjected Antisthenes), that besides you, every rhapsodist is familiar with these epics?
Forgotten! is it likely (he replied), considering I had to listen to them almost daily?
Forgotten? Is it even possible, he replied, considering I had to listen to them almost every day?
Ant. And did you ever come across a sillier tribe of people than these same rhapsodists? (13)
Ant. And have you ever encountered a sillier group of people than these rhapsodists? (13)
(13) Cf. "Mem." IV. ii. 10.
(13) Cf. "Mem." IV. ii. 10.
Nic. Not I, indeed. Don't ask me to defend their wits.
Nic. Not me, for sure. Don't expect me to defend their intelligence.
It is plain (suggested Socrates), they do not know the underlying meaning. (14) But you, Niceratus, have paid large sums of money to Anaximander, and Stesimbrotus, and many others, (15) so that no single point in all that costly lore is lost upon you. (16) But what (he added, turning to Critobulus) do you most pride yourself upon?
It’s clear (Socrates suggested) that they don’t understand the deeper meaning. (14) But you, Niceratus, have spent a lot of money on Anaximander, Stesimbrotus, and many others, (15) so that you don’t miss a single point of all that expensive knowledge. (16) But what (he added, turning to Critobulus) do you take the most pride in?
(14) i.e. "they haven't the key (of knowledge) to the allegorical or spiritual meaning of the sacred text." Cf. Plat. "Crat." 407; "Ion," 534; "Rep." 378, 387; "Theaet." 180; "Prot." 316. See Grote, "H. G." i. 564. (15) See Aristot. "Rhet." iii. 11, 13. "Or we may describe Niceratus (not improbably our friend) as a 'Philoctetes stung by Pratys,' using the simile of Thrasymachus when he saw Niceratus after his defeat by Pratys in the rhapsody with his hair still dishevelled and his face unwashed."—Welldon. As to Stesimbrotus, see Plat. "Ion," 530: "Ion. Very true, Socrates; interpretation has certainly been the most laborious part of my art; and I believe myself able to speak about Homer better than any man; and that neither Metrodorus of Lampsacus, nor Stesimbrotus of Thasos, nor Glaucon, nor any one else who ever was, had as good ideas about Homer, or as many of them, as I have."—Jowett. Anaximander, probably of Lampsacus, the author of a {'Erologia}; see Cobet, "Pros. Xen." p. 8. (16) Or, "you will not have forgotten one point of all that precious teaching." Like Sir John Falstaff's page (2 "Henry IV." ii. 2. 100), Niceratus, no doubt, has got many "a crown's worth of good interpretations."
(14) i.e. "they don’t have the key (to understanding) the allegorical or spiritual meaning of the sacred text." Cf. Plat. "Crat." 407; "Ion," 534; "Rep." 378, 387; "Theaet." 180; "Prot." 316. See Grote, "H. G." i. 564. (15) See Aristot. "Rhet." iii. 11, 13. "Or we might describe Niceratus (probably our friend) as a 'Philoctetes stung by Pratys,' using Thrasymachus's comparison when he saw Niceratus after his defeat by Pratys in the rhapsody, with his hair still messy and his face unwashed."—Welldon. Regarding Stesimbrotus, see Plat. "Ion," 530: "Ion. Very true, Socrates; interpretation has definitely been the most challenging part of my craft; and I believe I can talk about Homer better than anyone else; and that neither Metrodorus of Lampsacus, nor Stesimbrotus of Thasos, nor Glaucon, nor anyone else who ever existed had as good ideas about Homer, or as many, as I do."—Jowett. Anaximander, likely from Lampsacus, the author of a {'Erologia}; see Cobet, "Pros. Xen." p. 8. (16) Or, "you won’t have forgotten one key point of all that valuable teaching." Like Sir John Falstaff's page (2 "Henry IV." ii. 2. 100), Niceratus has probably gathered many "a crown's worth of good interpretations."
On beauty (answered Critobulus).
On beauty (answered Critobulus).
What (Socrates rejoined), shall you be able to maintain that by your beauty you can make us better?
What (Socrates replied), can you really claim that your beauty can make us better?
Crit. That will I, or prove myself a shabby sort of person.
Crit. I will do that, or I’ll prove myself to be a worthless person.
Soc. Well, and what is it you pride yourself upon, Antisthenes?
Soc. So, what is it that you take pride in, Antisthenes?
On wealth (he answered).
About wealth (he answered).
Whereupon Hermogenes inquired: Had he then a large amount of money? (17)
Whereupon Hermogenes asked: Did he have a lot of money? (17)
(17) i.e. "out at interest," or, "in the funds," as we should say.
(17) i.e. "earning interest," or, "invested in funds," as we would say.
Not one sixpence: (18) that I swear to you (he answered).
Not a single penny: (18) I swear to you (he replied).
(18) Lit. "not an obol" = "a threepenny bit," circa.
(18) Lit. "not an obol" = "a threepenny bit," circa.
Herm. Then you possess large property in land?
Herm. So you own a lot of land?
Ant. Enough, I daresay, for the youngster there, Autolycus, to dust himself withal. (19)
Ant. That should be enough for the kid over there, Autolycus, to clean himself off. (19)
(19) i.e. "to sprinkle himself with sand, after anointing." Cf. Lucian, xxxviii., "Amor." 45.
(19) i.e. "to sprinkle himself with sand, after applying oil." Cf. Lucian, xxxviii., "Amor." 45.
Well, we will lend you our ears, when your turn comes (exclaimed the others).
Well, we'll listen to you when it's your turn (the others exclaimed).
Soc. And do you now tell us, Charmides, on what you pride yourself.
Soc. So, can you tell us now, Charmides, what you take pride in?
Oh, I, for my part, pride myself on poverty (he answered).
Oh, I, for my part, take pride in my poverty (he answered).
Upon my word, a charming business! (exclaimed Socrates). Poverty! of all things the least liable to envy; seldom, if ever, an object of contention; (20) never guarded, yet always safe; the more you starve it, the stronger it grows.
“Honestly, what a lovely way to look at it!” (exclaimed Socrates). Poverty! Of all things, the least likely to cause envy; it’s rarely, if ever, something people argue about; (20) it's never protected, yet always secure; the more you try to ignore it, the more powerful it becomes.
(20) Cf. Plat. "Rep." 521 A; "Laws," 678 C.
(20) Cf. Plat. "Rep." 521 A; "Laws," 678 C.
And you, Socrates, yourself (their host demanded), what is it you pride yourself upon?
And you, Socrates, what do you take pride in?
Then he, with knitted brows, quite solemnly: On pandering. (21) And when they laughed to hear him say this, (22) he continued: Laugh to your hearts content, my friends; but I am certain I could make a fortune, if I chose to practise this same art.
Then he, with furrowed brows, said seriously: On pandering. (21) And when they laughed at his words, (22) he continued: Laugh all you want, my friends; but I know I could make a fortune if I decided to practice this same art.
(21) Or, more politely, "on playing the go-between." See Grote, "H. G." viii. 457, on the "extremely Aristophanic" character of the "Symposium" of Xenophon. (22) "Him, the master, thus declare himself."
(21) Or, more politely, "acting as an intermediary." See Grote, "H. G." viii. 457, on the "highly Aristophanic" nature of Xenophon's "Symposium." (22) "Him, the master, thus declares himself."
At this point Lycon, turning to Philippus: We need not ask you what you take the chiefest pride in. What can it be, you laughter-making man, except to set folk laughing?
At this point, Lycon turned to Philippus: We don’t need to ask what you take the most pride in. What else could it be, you funny guy, except making people laugh?
Yes (he answered), and with better right, I fancy, than Callippides, (23) the actor, who struts and gives himself such pompous airs, to think that he alone can set the crowds a-weeping in the theatre. (24)
Yes (he answered), and I think I have more reason to say it than Callippides, (23) the actor, who struts around and acts so important, believing that only he can make the audience cry in the theater. (24)
(23) For illustrative tales about him see Plut. "Ages." xxi.; "Alcib." xxxii.; Polyaen. vi. 10. Cf. "Hell." IV. viii. 16. (24) Or, "set for their sins a-weeping."
(23) For stories about him, see Plut. "Ages." xxi.; "Alcib." xxxii.; Polyaen. vi. 10. Cf. "Hell." IV. viii. 16. (24) Or, "set them crying for their sins."
And now you, Lycon, tell us, won't you (asked Antisthenes), what it is you take the greatest pride in?
And now you, Lycon, tell us, will you (asked Antisthenes), what you take the most pride in?
You all of you, I fancy, know already what that is (the father answered); it is in my son here.
You all know what that is, I think, answered the father; it's in my son here.
And the lad himself (some one suggested) doubtless prides himself, beyond all else, on having won the prize of victory.
And the guy himself (someone suggested) probably takes great pride, above all else, in having won the prize of victory.
At that Autolycus (and as he spoke he blushed) answered for himself: (25) No indeed, not I.
At that, Autolycus (and he blushed as he spoke) responded for himself: (25) No, not me.
(25) Cf. Plat. "Charm." 158 C.
(25) Cf. Plat. "Charm." 158 C.
The company were charmed to hear him speak, and turned and looked; and some one asked: On what is it then, Autolycus?
The company was delighted to hear him speak, so they turned and looked; and someone asked: So, what is it then, Autolycus?
To which he answered: On my father (and leaned closer towards him).
To which he replied: On my father (and leaned in closer to him).
At which sight Callias, turning to the father: Do you know you are the richest man in the whole world, Lycon?
At that moment, Callias turned to his father and said, "Did you know you're the richest man in the entire world, Lycon?"
To which Lycon: Really, I was not aware of that before.
To which Lycon replied: Honestly, I didn't know that before.
Then Callias: Why then, it has escaped you that you would refuse the whole of Persia's wealth, (26) in exchange for your own son.
Then Callias: So, you don’t realize that you would turn down all of Persia's wealth, (26) in exchange for your own son?
(26) Lit. "of the Great King." Cf. "Cyrop." VIII. iii. 26.
(26) Lit. "of the Great King." Cf. "Cyrop." VIII. iii. 26.
Most true (he answered), I plead guilty; here and now I am convicted (27) of being the wealthiest man in all the world!
Most true (he answered), I admit it; right here and now I’m convicted (27) of being the richest man in the entire world!
(27) "Caught flagrante delicto. I do admit I do out-Croesus Croesus."
(27) "Caught red-handed. I have to admit, I do outdo Croesus."
And you, Hermogenes, on what do you plume yourself most highly? (asked Niceratus).
And you, Hermogenes, what do you take the most pride in? (asked Niceratus).
On the virtue and the power of my friends (he answered), and that being what they are, they care for me.
On the value and strength of my friends (he replied), and because they are who they are, they look out for me.
At this remark they turned their eyes upon the speaker, and several spoke together, asking: Will you make them known to us?
At this comment, they looked at the speaker, and several said at once, "Will you tell us about them?"
I shall be very happy (he replied).
I’ll be really happy (he said).
IV
IV
At this point, Socrates took up the conversation: It now devolves on us to prove in turn that what we each have undertaken to defend is really valuable.
At this point, Socrates joined the conversation: It’s now our turn to prove that what we each have committed to defending is truly valuable.
Then Callias: Be pleased to listen to me first: My case is this, that while the rest of you go on debating what justice and uprightness are, (1) I spend my time in making men more just and upright.
Then Callias: Please allow me to speak first: My situation is this, that while the rest of you continue debating what justice and righteousness are, (1) I dedicate my time to making people more just and upright.
(1) {to to dikaion}; cf. "Mem." IV. iv.
(1) {to to dikaion}; see "Mem." IV. iv.
Soc. And how do you do that, good sir?
Soc. And how do you do that, good sir?
Call. By giving money, to be sure.
Call. By giving money, of course.
Antisthenes sprang to his feet at once, and with the manner of a cross-examiner demanded: Do human beings seem to you to harbour justice in their souls, or in their purses, (2) Callias?
Antisthenes jumped up immediately and, with the attitude of a cross-examiner, asked: Do you think humans hold justice in their souls or in their wallets, (2) Callias?
(2) Or, "pockets."
(2) Or, "wallets."
Call. In their souls.
Call. Deep within.
Ant. And do you pretend to make their souls more righteous by putting money in their pockets?
Ant. So you think you can make their souls better by giving them money?
Call. Undoubtedly.
Call. For sure.
Ant. Pray how?
Ant. How so?
Call. In this way. When they know that they are furnished with the means, that is to say, my money, to buy necessaries, they would rather not incur the risk of evil-doing, and why should they?
Call. In this way. When they know they have the resources, meaning my money, to buy essentials, they would prefer not to take the risk of doing something wrong, and why should they?
Ant. And pray, do they repay you these same moneys?
Ant. And do they pay you back that money?
Call. I cannot say they do.
Call. I can't say they do.
Ant. Well then, do they requite your gifts of gold with gratitude?
Ant. So, do they return your gifts of gold with appreciation?
Call. No, not so much as a bare "Thank you." In fact, some of them are even worse disposed towards me when they have got my money than before.
Call. No, not even a simple "Thank you." In fact, some of them are even more unfriendly towards me after they've taken my money than they were before.
Now, here's a marvel! (exclaimed Antisthenes, and as he spoke he eyed the witness with an air of triumph). You can render people just to all the world, but towards yourself you cannot?
Now, here's a wonder! (exclaimed Antisthenes, and as he spoke he looked at the witness with a sense of triumph). You can be fair to everyone else, but you can't be fair to yourself?
Pray, where's the wonder? (asked the other). Do you not see what scores of carpenters and house-builders there are who spend their time in building houses for half the world; but for themselves they simply cannot do it, and are forced to live in lodgings. And so admit that home-thrust, Master Sophist; (3) and confess yourself confuted.
Pray, where's the wonder? (asked the other). Don’t you see how many carpenters and builders there are who spend their time constructing houses for others; yet they can’t manage to build one for themselves and are forced to live in rentals? So, accept that challenge, Master Sophist; (3) and admit you’ve been defeated.
(3) "Professor of wisdom."
"Professor of knowledge."
Upon my soul, he had best accept his fate (4) (said Socrates). Why, after all, you are only like those prophets who proverbially foretell the future for mankind, but cannot foresee what is coming upon themselves.
Upon my soul, he should really accept his fate (4) (said Socrates). After all, you’re just like those prophets who typically predict the future for others but can’t see what’s about to happen to themselves.
(4) Or, "the coup de grace."
Or, "the last straw."
And so the first discussion ended. (5)
And so the first discussion came to an end. (5)
(5) Or, "so ended fytte the first of the word-controversy."
(5) Or, "so ended the first part of the word controversy."
Thereupon Niceratus: Lend me your ears, and I will tell you in what respects you shall be better for consorting with myself. I presume, without my telling you, you know that Homer, being the wisest of mankind, has touched upon nearly every human topic in his poems. (6) Whosoever among you, therefore, would fain be skilled in economy, or oratory, or strategy; whose ambition it is to be like Achilles, or Ajax, Nestor, or Odysseus—one and all pay court to me, for I have all this knowledge at my fingers' ends.
Then Niceratus said: Listen up, and I’ll explain how you’ll benefit from being with me. I assume you already know, without me even saying it, that Homer, the wisest of people, has covered almost every human subject in his poems. So, anyone here who wants to be good at economics, public speaking, or strategy; who aspires to be like Achilles, Ajax, Nestor, or Odysseus—everyone should come to me, because I have all that knowledge at my fingertips.
(6) Or, "his creations are all but coextensive with every mortal thing."
(6) Or, "his creations are almost the same as every living thing."
Pray (interposed Antisthenes), (7) do you also know the way to be a king? (8) since Homer praises Agamemnon, you are well aware, as being
Pray (interjected Antisthenes), (7) do you also know how to be a king? (8) since Homer praises Agamemnon, you are well aware, as being
A goodly king and eke a spearman bold. (9) (7) Some modern critics (e.g. F. Dummler, "Antisthenica," p. 29 foll.) maintain plausibly that the author is here glancing (as also Plato in the "Ion") at Antisthenes' own treatises against the Rhapsodists and on a more correct interpretation of Homer, {peri exegeton} and {peri 'Omerou}. (8) Or, "Have you the knowledge also how to play the king?" (9) "Il." iii. 179. See "Mem." III. ii. 2.
A good king and also a brave warrior. (9) (7) Some modern critics (e.g. F. Dummler, "Antisthenica," p. 29 foll.) argue convincingly that the author is alluding (as does Plato in the "Ion") to Antisthenes' own writings against the Rhapsodists and on a more accurate interpretation of Homer, {peri exegeton} and {peri 'Omerou}. (8) Or, "Do you also know how to act like a king?" (9) "Il." iii. 179. See "Mem." III. ii. 2.
Nic. Full well I know it, and full well I know the duty of a skilful charioteer; how he who holds the ribbons must turn his chariot nigh the pillar's edge (10)
Nic. I know it very well, and I also know the responsibility of a skilled charioteer; how the one who holds the reins must steer his chariot near the edge of the pillar.
Himself inclined upon the polished chariot-board A little to the left of the twin pair: the right hand horse Touch with the prick, and shout a cheery shout, and give him rein. (11)
Himself leaning on the polished chariot board a bit to the left of the twin pair: the right-hand horse he prods with the prick, shouts an encouraging cheer, and gives him the reins. (11)
I know another thing besides, and you may put it to the test this instant, if you like. Homer somewhere has said: (12)
I know one more thing, and you can test it right now if you want. Homer once said: (12)
And at his side an onion, which to drink gives relish.
And next to him, an onion, which adds flavor to drinks.
So if some one will but bring an onion, you shall reap the benefit of my sage lore (13) in less than no time, and your wine will taste the sweeter.
So if someone just brings an onion, you'll quickly benefit from my wise advice (13), and your wine will taste even better.
(10) "Il." xxiii. 335; Plat. "Ion," 537. (11) Lit. "yield him the reins with his hands." (12) "Il." xi.630: "And set out a leek savourer of drink" (Purves). Plat. "Ion," 538 C. (13) "My culinary skill."
(10) "Il." xxiii. 335; Plat. "Ion," 537. (11) Literally, "give him control with his hands." (12) "Il." xi.630: "And put out a leek drink flavorer" (Purves). Plat. "Ion," 538 C. (13) "My cooking skills."
Here Charmides exclaimed: Good sirs, let me explain. Niceratus is anxious to go home, redolent of onions, so that his fair lady may persuade herself, it never entered into anybody's head to kiss her lord. (14)
Here Charmides exclaimed: Good sirs, let me explain. Niceratus is eager to go home, smelling of onions, so that his lovely lady can convince herself that no one ever thought of kissing her husband. (14)
(14) See Shakesp. "Much Ado," v. 2. 51 foll.; "Mids. N. D." iv. 2.
(14) See Shakespeare, "Much Ado," Act 5, Scene 2, lines 51 and following; "A Midsummer Night's Dream," Act 4, Scene 2.
Bless me, that isn't all (continued Socrates); if we do not take care, we shall win ourselves a comic reputation. (15) A relish must it be, in very truth, that can sweeten cup as well as platter, this same onion; and if we are to take to munching onions for desert, see if somebody does not say of us, "They went to dine with Callias, and got more than their deserts, the epicures." (16)
Bless me, that’s not all (Socrates continued); if we’re not careful, we’ll end up with a silly reputation. (15) It really must be something special that can make both the food and the drink taste better, this same onion; and if we start munching on onions for dessert, let's see if someone doesn’t say about us, “They went to dine with Callias and got more than they bargained for, those foodies.” (16)
(15) Lit. "I warrant you! (quoth Socrates) and there's another funny notion we have every chance of getting fathered on us." (16) Or, "and had a most hilarious and herbaceous time."
(15) Seriously! (said Socrates) and there's another strange idea we’re likely to end up being blamed for. (16) Or, "and had a really fun and plant-filled time."
No fear of that (rejoined Niceratus). Always take a bite of onion before speeding forth to battle, just as your patrons of the cock-pit give their birds a feed of garlic (17) before they put them for the fight. But for ourselves our thoughts are less intent perhaps on dealing blows than blowing kisses. (18)
No fear of that, Niceratus replied. Always take a bite of onion before rushing into battle, just like the people who raise fighting chickens feed them garlic before a match. But for us, our minds may be less focused on throwing punches and more on blowing kisses.
(17) Cf. Aristoph. "Knights," 494:
(17) Cf. Aristophanes "Knights," 494:
Chorus. And here's the garlic. Swallow it down! Sausage Seller.... What for? Chorus. It will prime you up and make you fight the better.
Chorus. And here’s the garlic. Eat it up! Sausage Seller.... Why? Chorus. It'll pump you up and help you fight better.
H. Frere.
H. Frere.
(18) "We are concerned less with the lists of battle than of love"; "we meditate no furious close of battle but of lips." Lit. "how we shall kiss some one rather than do battle with."
(18) "We're more focused on matters of love than on lists of battles"; "we're not thinking about fierce endings to fights but about kisses." Lit. "how we will kiss someone instead of fighting."
After such sort the theme of their discourse reached its conclusion.
After that, the topic of their conversation came to an end.
Then Critobulus spoke: It is now my turn, I think, to state to you the grounds on which I pride myself on beauty. (19)
Then Critobulus said: I think it’s my turn to share the reasons why I take pride in my beauty. (19)
(19) See "Hellenica Essays," p. 353.
(19) See "Hellenica Essays," p. 353.
A chorus of voices rejoined: Say on.
A group of voices replied: Go on.
Crit. To begin with, if I am not beautiful, as methinks I be, you will bring on your own heads the penalty of perjury; for, without waiting to have the oath administered, you are always taking the gods to witness that you find me beautiful. And I must needs believe you, for are you not all honourable men? (20) If I then be so beautiful and affect you, even as I also am affected by him whose fair face here attracts me, (21) I swear by all the company of heaven I would not choose the great king's empire in exchange for what I am—the beauty of the world, the paragon of animals. (22) And at this instant I feast my eyes on Cleinias (23) gladlier than on all other sights which men deem fair. Joyfully will I welcome blindness to all else, if but these eyes may still behold him and him only. With sleep and night I am sore vexed, which rob me of his sight; but to daylight and the sun I owe eternal thanks, for they restore him to me, my heart's joy, Cleinias. (24)
Crit. To start with, if I'm not beautiful, as I think I am, you will bring the consequences of perjury upon yourselves; because, without waiting for the oath to be taken, you're always calling upon the gods to witness that you find me beautiful. And I have to believe you, since you’re all honorable men? (20) If I am indeed beautiful and you feel attracted to me, just as I feel drawn to the guy whose handsome face captivates me here, (21) I swear by everyone in heaven that I wouldn’t trade the empire of the greatest king for what I have—the beauty of the world, the ideal of the human race. (22) And right now, I admire Cleinias (23) more happily than any other sight that people consider beautiful. I would gladly welcome blindness to everything else if only these eyes can still see him and him alone. I'm tormented by sleep and night, which take away my sight of him; but I owe eternal gratitude to daylight and the sun because they return him to me, my heart's joy, Cleinias. (24)
(20) Or, "beautiful and good." (21) Or, "whose fair face draws me." Was Cleinias there as a "muta persona"? Hardly, in spite of {nun}. It is the image of him which is present to the mind's eye. (22) Lit. "being beautiful"; but there is a touch of bombast infused into the speech by the artist. Cf. the speech of Callias ("Hell." VI. iii. 3) and, for the humour, "Cyrop." passim. (23) See Cobet, "Pros. Xen." p. 59. Cf. "Mem." I. iii. 8. (24) Or, "for that they reveal his splendour to me."
(20) Or, "attractive and good." (21) Or, "whose lovely face captivates me." Was Cleinias there as a "silent character"? Probably not, despite {nun}. It’s just his image that comes to mind. (22) Literally, "being attractive"; but there's a hint of exaggeration in the artist's speech. See the speech of Callias ("Hell." VI. iii. 3) and, for humor, "Cyrop." throughout. (23) See Cobet, "Pros. Xen." p. 59. Compare "Mem." I. iii. 8. (24) Or, "because they show his brilliance to me."
Yes, and herein also have we, the beautiful, (25) just claim to boast. The strong man may by dint of toil obtain good things; the brave, by danger boldly faced, and the wise by eloquence of speech; but to the beautiful alone it is given to achieve all ends in absolute quiescence. To take myself as an example. I know that riches are a sweet possession, yet sweeter far to me to give all that I have to Cleinias than to receive a fortune from another. Gladly would I become a slave—ay, forfeit freedom—if Cleinias would deign to be my lord. Toil in his service were easier for me than rest from labour: danger incurred in his behalf far sweeter than security of days. So that if you, Callias, may boast of making men more just and upright, to me belongs by juster right than yours to train mankind to every excellence. We are the true inspirers (26) who infuse some subtle fire into amorous souls, we beauties, and thereby raise them to new heights of being; we render them more liberal in the pursuit of wealth; we give them a zest for toil that mocks at danger, and enables them where honour the fair vision leads, to follow. (27) We fill their souls with deeper modesty, a self-constraint more staunch; about the things they care for most, there floats a halo of protecting awe. (28) Fools and unwise are they who choose not beauteous men to be their generals. How merrily would I, at any rate, march through fire by the side of Cleinias; (29) and so would all of you, I know full well, in company of him who now addresses you.
Yes, and here we also have, as beautiful people, a rightful claim to brag. The strong can earn good things through hard work; the brave can achieve glory by facing danger; and the wise can persuade others with their words. But only the beautiful can achieve everything with complete ease. To use myself as an example, I know that wealth is a valuable possession, but it’s far sweeter for me to give everything I have to Cleinias than to receive riches from someone else. I would willingly become a servant—yes, I would give up my freedom—if Cleinias would consider being my master. Serving him would be more enjoyable for me than resting from work; facing danger for him would be far more satisfying than feeling safe. So, if you, Callias, can boast about making people more just and decent, then I have a stronger right than you to teach humanity every virtue. We are the true inspirations who ignite a subtle fire in passionate souls, elevating them to new heights; we make them more generous in pursuing wealth; we instill in them a love for work that dismisses danger and allows them to pursue honor wherever it leads. We fill their souls with deeper humility and stronger self-restraint; around the things they care about most lies a protective aura of respect. Those who choose not to have beautiful people as their leaders are foolish and misguided. How joyfully would I, at any rate, walk through fire beside Cleinias; and I know all of you would do the same with the one who now speaks to you.
(25) "We beauties." (26) The {eispnelas} in relation to the {aitas}, the Inspirer to the Hearer. Cf. Theocr. xii. 13; Ael. "V. H." iii. 12. See Muller, "Dorians," ii. 300 foll. (27) {philokaloterous}. Cf. Plat. "Phaedr." 248 D; "Criti." 111 E; Aristot. "Eth. N." iv. 4. 4; x. 9. 3. (28) Lit. "they feel most awe of what they most desire." (29) Cf. "Mem." I. iii. 9.
(25) "We're gorgeous." (26) The {eispnelas} in relation to the {aitas}, the Inspirer to the Hearer. Cf. Theocr. xii. 13; Ael. "V. H." iii. 12. See Muller, "Dorians," ii. 300 foll. (27) {philokaloterous}. Cf. Plat. "Phaedr." 248 D; "Criti." 111 E; Aristot. "Eth. N." iv. 4. 4; x. 9. 3. (28) Literally, "they feel the most awe for what they desire the most." (29) Cf. "Mem." I. iii. 9.
Cease, therefore, your perplexity, O Socrates, abandon fears and doubts, believe and know that this thing of which I make great boast, my beauty, has power to confer some benefit on humankind.
Cease, then, your confusion, O Socrates, let go of your fears and doubts, believe and understand that this thing I proudly claim, my beauty, has the ability to bring some benefit to humanity.
Once more, let no man dare dishonour beauty, merely because the flower of it soon fades, since even as a child has growth in beauty, so is it with the stripling, the grown man, the reverend senior. (30) And this the proof of my contention. Whom do we choose to bear the sacred olive-shoot (31) in honour of Athena?—whom else save beautiful old men? witnessing thereby (32) that beauty walks hand in hand as a companion with every age of life, from infancy to eld.
Once again, let no one dare to disrespect beauty just because it fades quickly, since just like a child grows into beauty, so do the youth, the adults, and the wise elderly. (30) And this is the proof of my point. Who do we choose to carry the sacred olive branch (31) in honor of Athena?—who else but beautiful older men? This shows (32) that beauty accompanies every stage of life, from childhood to old age.
(30) Cf. ib. III. iii. 12. (31) Cf. Aristoph. "Wasps," 544. (32) Or, "beauty steps in attendance lovingly hand in hand at every season of the life of man." So Walt Whitman, passim.
(30) Cf. ib. III. iii. 12. (31) Cf. Aristoph. "Wasps," 544. (32) Or, "beauty walks lovingly hand in hand with every stage of human life." So Walt Whitman, throughout his works.
Or again, if it be sweet to win from willing hearts the things we seek for, I am persuaded that, by the eloquence of silence, I could win a kiss from yonder girl or boy more speedily than ever you could, O sage! by help of half a hundred subtle arguments.
Or if it’s nice to get from willing hearts the things we desire, I believe that, through the power of silence, I could get a kiss from that girl or boy over there faster than you ever could, O wise one, with your countless clever arguments.
Eh, bless my ears, what's that? (Socrates broke in upon this final flourish of the speaker). So beautiful you claim to rival me, you boaster?
Eh, my ears, what’s that? (Socrates interrupted this final flourish of the speaker). You’re claiming to be so beautiful that you can outshine me, you show-off?
Crit. Why, yes indeed, I hope so, or else I should be uglier than all the Silenuses in the Satyric drama. (33)
Crit. Why, yes, I really hope so, or else I would be uglier than all the Silenuses in the Satyric drama. (33)
(33) The MSS. add ("to whom, be it noted, Socrates indeed bore a marked resemblance"). Obviously a gloss. Cf. Aristoph. "Clouds," 224; Plat. "Symp." 215 B.
(33) The manuscripts add ("to whom, it should be noted, Socrates really had a strong resemblance"). Clearly an annotation. See Aristoph. "Clouds," 224; Plat. "Symp." 215 B.
Good! (Socrates rejoined); the moment the programme of discussion is concluded, (34) please remember, we must obtain a verdict on the point of beauty. Judgment shall be given—not at the bar of Alexander, son of Priam—but of these (35) who, as you flatter yourself, have such a hankering to kiss you.
Good! (Socrates replied); once we've wrapped up our discussion, (34) keep in mind, we need to come to a decision about beauty. The judgment will not be rendered at the hands of Alexander, son of Priam—but by those (35) who, as you like to think, are so eager to kiss you.
(34) Lit. "the arguments proposed have gone the round." (35) i.e. "the boy and girl." Al. "the present company, who are so eager to bestow on you their kisses."
(34) Literally, "the arguments proposed have gone the round." (35) That is, "the boy and girl." Alternatively, "the current company, who are so eager to give you their kisses."
Oh, Socrates (he answered, deprecatingly), will you not leave it to the arbitrament of Cleinias?
Oh, Socrates (he replied, dismissively), will you not let Cleinias decide?
Then Socrates: Will you never tire of repeating that one name? It is Cleinias here, there, and everywhere with you.
Then Socrates: Will you ever get tired of saying that one name? It's Cleinias here, there, and everywhere with you.
Crit. And if his name died on my lips, think you my mind would less recall his memory? Know you not, I bear so clear an image of him in my soul, that had I the sculptor's or the limner's skill, I might portray his features as exactly from this image of the mind as from contemplation of his actual self.
Crit. And if I stopped saying his name, do you think my mind would forget him? Don't you know that I have such a clear image of him in my heart that if I had the talent of a sculptor or an artist, I could recreate his features from this mental image just as accurately as if I were looking at him in person?
But Socrates broke in: Pray, why then, if you bear about this lively image, why do you give me so much trouble, dragging me to this and that place, where you hope to see him?
But Socrates interrupted: "I have to ask, why, if you have this vivid image in your mind, do you make me go through so much trouble, pulling me from one place to another, hoping to see him?"
Crit. For this good reason, Socrates, the sight of him inspires gladness, whilst his phantom brings not joy so much as it engenders longing.
Crit. For this reason, Socrates, seeing him brings happiness, while his shadow creates not joy but rather a sense of longing.
At this point Hermogenes protested: I find it most unlike you, Socrates, to treat thus negligently one so passion-crazed as Critobulus.
At this point, Hermogenes protested: I find it very unlike you, Socrates, to treat someone as passionate as Critobulus so carelessly.
Socrates replied: Do you suppose the sad condition of the patient dates from the moment only of our intimacy?
Socrates replied: Do you think the patient's unfortunate state started only when we became close?
Herm. Since when, then?
Herm. Since when?
Soc. Since when? Why, look at him: the down begins to mantle on his cheeks, (36) and on the nape (37) of Cleinias' neck already mounts. The fact is, when they fared to the same school together, he caught the fever. This his father was aware of, and consigned him to me, hoping I might be able to do something for him. Ay, and his plight is not so sorry now. Once he would stand agape at him like one whose gaze is fixed upon the Gorgons, (38) his eyes one stony stare, and like a stone himself turn heavily away. But nowadays I have seen the statue actually blink. (39) And yet, may Heaven help me! my good sirs, I think, between ourselves, the culprit must have bestowed a kiss on Cleinias, than which love's flame asks no fiercer fuel. (40) So insatiable a thing it is and so suggestive of mad fantasy. (And for this reason held perhaps in higher honour, because of all external acts the close of lip with lip bears the same name as that of soul with soul in love.) (41) Wherefore, say I, let every one who wishes to be master of himself and sound of soul abstain from kisses imprinted on fair lips. (42)
Soc. Since when? Just look at him: the fuzz is starting to grow on his cheeks, and there’s already some on the back of Cleinias' neck. The truth is, when they went to the same school together, he caught a crush. His father knew this and sent him to me, hoping I could help. And honestly, his situation isn’t so bad now. There was a time when he would stand there, staring at Cleinias like someone looking at the Gorgons, his eyes blank, and he would turn away heavily like a statue. But nowadays, I’ve actually seen him blink. Yet, good heavens! Let’s be honest, my friends, I suspect that someone must have kissed Cleinias, because that’s a kind of fuel that love’s fire craves more than anything else. It’s an insatiable thing and suggests wild fantasies. (And maybe that’s why it’s held in such high regard, because of the way lip contact carries the same name as the connection between souls in love.) So, I say, let anyone who wants to be in control of themselves and sound of mind stay away from kisses on beautiful lips.
(36) Lit. "creeping down beside his ears." Cf. "Od." xi. 319:
(36) Lit. "creeping down beside his ears." Cf. "Od." xi. 319:
{prin sphoin upo krotaphoisin ioulous anthesai pukasai te genus euanthei lakhne.}
{prin sphoin upo krotaphoisin ioulous anthesai pukasai te genus euanthei lakhne.}
"(Zeus destroyed the twain) ere the curls had bloomed beneath their temples, and darked their chins with the blossom of youth." —Butcher and Lang. Cf. Theocr. xv. 85: {praton ioulon apo krotaphon kataballon}, "with the first down upon his cheeks" (Lang); Aesch. "Theb." 534. (37) {pros to opisthen}, perhaps = "ad posteriorem capitis partem," which would be more applicable to Critobulus, whose whiskers were just beginning to grow, than to Callias. Possibly we should read (after Pollux, ii. 10) {peri ten upenen}, "on the upper lip." See Plat. "Protag." 309 B; "Il." xxiv. 348; "Od." x. 279. (38) Cf. Pind. "Pyth." x. 75. (39) See "Cyrop." I. iv. 28; Shakesp. "Ven. and Ad." 89: "But when her lips were ready for his pay, he winks, and turns his lips another way." (40) Or, "a kiss which is to passion as dry combustious matter is to fire," Shakesp. ib. 1162. (41) Or, "is namesake of the love within the soul of lovers." The whole passage, involving a play on the words {philein phileisthai}, "where kisses rain without, love reigns within," is probably to be regarded as a gloss. Cf. "Mem." I. iii. 13. (42) Cf. "Mem." I. iii. 8-14.
"(Zeus destroyed them) before their curls had fully grown beneath their temples, and before their chins had darkened with the bloom of youth." —Butcher and Lang. Cf. Theocr. xv. 85: {praton ioulon apo krotaphon kataballon}, "with the first down upon his cheeks" (Lang); Aesch. "Theb." 534. (37) {pros to opisthen}, perhaps = "toward the back of the head," which would better describe Critobulus, whose whiskers were just starting to grow, than Callias. We might need to read (after Pollux, ii. 10) {peri ten upenen}, "on the upper lip." See Plat. "Protag." 309 B; "Il." xxiv. 348; "Od." x. 279. (38) Cf. Pind. "Pyth." x. 75. (39) See "Cyrop." I. iv. 28; Shakesp. "Ven. and Ad." 89: "But when her lips were ready for his pay, he winks, and turns his lips another way." (40) Or, "a kiss that is to passion what dry combustible material is to fire," Shakesp. ib. 1162. (41) Or, "is a namesake of the love within the hearts of lovers." The entire passage, playing on the words {philein phileisthai}, "where kisses fall freely, love reigns within," is likely considered a gloss. Cf. "Mem." I. iii. 13. (42) Cf. "Mem." I. iii. 8-14.
Then Charmides: Oh! Socrates, why will you scare your friends with these hobgoblin terrors, (43) bidding us all beware of handsome faces, whilst you yourself—yes, by Apollo, I will swear I saw you at the schoolmaster's (44) that time when both of you were poring over one book, in which you searched for something, you and Critobulus, head to head, shoulder to shoulder bare, as if incorporate? (45)
Then Charmides: Oh! Socrates, why do you frighten your friends with these spooky stories, telling us to be wary of attractive faces, while you yourself—yes, I swear by Apollo, I saw you at the schoolmaster's that time when both of you were intensely focused on one book, searching for something, you and Critobulus, head to head, shoulder to shoulder, as if you were one?
(43) Cf. Plat. "Crit." 46 D; "Hell." IV. iv. 17; Arist. "Birds," 1245. (44) "Grammarian's." Plat. "Protag." 312 B; 326 D; Dem. 315. 8. (45) Like Hermia and Helena, "Mids. N. D." iii. 2. 208.
(43) Cf. Plat. "Crit." 46 D; "Hell." IV. iv. 17; Arist. "Birds," 1245. (44) "Grammarian's." Plat. "Protag." 312 B; 326 D; Dem. 315. 8. (45) Like Hermia and Helena, "Mids. N. D." iii. 2. 208.
As yes, alack the day! (he answered); and that is why, no doubt, my shoulder ached for more than five days afterwards, as if I had been bitten by some fell beast, and methought I felt a sort of scraping at the heart. (46) Now therefore, in the presence of these witnesses, I warn you, Critobulus, never again to touch me till you wear as thick a crop of hair (47) upon your chin as on your head.
As yes, oh what a day! (he answered); and that’s why, no doubt, my shoulder ached for more than five days afterward, as if I had been bitten by some fierce beast, and I felt a sort of scraping at my heart. (46) Now therefore, in front of these witnesses, I warn you, Critobulus, never to touch me again until you have as much hair on your chin (47) as you do on your head.
(46) Reading {knisma}, "scratching." Plat. "Hipp. maj." 304 A. Al. {knesma}. (47) See Jebb, "Theophr. Ch." xxiv. 16.
(46) Reading {knisma}, "scratching." Plat. "Hipp. maj." 304 A. Al. {knesma}. (47) See Jebb, "Theophr. Ch." xxiv. 16.
So pell-mell they went at it, half jest half earnest, and so the medley ended. Callias here called on Charmides.
So they jumped in all at once, half joking and half serious, and that's how the mix ended. Callias called on Charmides here.
Call. Now, Charmides, it lies with you to tell us why you pride yourself on poverty. (48)
Call. Now, Charmides, it's up to you to explain why you take pride in being poor. (48)
(48) Zeune, cf. "Cyrop." VIII. iii. 35-50.
(48) Zeune, see "Cyrop." VIII. iii. 35-50.
Charmides responded: On all hands it is admitted, I believe, that confidence is better than alarm; better to be a freeman than a slave; better to be worshipped than pay court to others; better to be trusted than to be suspected by one's country.
Charmides responded: It's generally agreed, I think, that confidence is better than fear; it's better to be free than enslaved; it's better to be admired than to seek approval from others; and it's better to be trusted than to be suspected by one's own country.
Well now, I will tell you how it fared with me in this same city when I was wealthy. First, I lived in daily terror lest some burglar should break into my house and steal my goods and do myself some injury. I cringed before informers. (49) I was obliged to pay these people court, because I knew that I could injure them far less than they could injure me. Never-ending the claims upon my pocket which the state enforced upon me; and as to setting foot abroad, that was beyond the range of possibility. But now that I have lost my property across the frontier, (50) and derive no income from my lands in Attica itself; now that my very household goods have been sold up, I stretch my legs at ease, I get a good night's rest. The distrust of my fellow-citizens has vanished; instead of trembling at threats, it is now my turn to threaten; at last I feel myself a freeman, with liberty to go abroad or stay at home as suits my fancy. The tables now are turned. It is the rich who rise to give me their seats, who stand aside and make way for me as I meet them in the streets. To-day I am like a despot, yesterday I was literally a slave; formerly it was I who had to pay my tribute (51) to the sovereign people, now it is I who am supported by the state by means of general taxation. (52)
Well, let me tell you how things were for me in this same city when I was wealthy. First off, I lived in constant fear that some burglar would break into my house, steal my stuff, and possibly hurt me. I was afraid of informers. I had to stay on their good side because I knew I could do far less damage to them than they could do to me. I was always being hit up for money by the state; going out in public was totally out of the question. But now that I’ve lost my property overseas, and I don’t earn any income from my land in Attica, and my household items have been sold off, I can finally relax and get a good night’s sleep. The distrust from my fellow citizens has faded; instead of cowering at threats, it’s now my turn to make threats. At last, I feel like a free person, with the freedom to go out or stay home as I please. The tables have turned. Now it’s the rich who get up to give me their seats, who step aside and make way for me when we pass each other in the streets. Today, I feel like a ruler; yesterday, I was basically a slave. I used to pay my dues to the people in power, but now I’m supported by the state through taxes.
(49) "And police agents." (50) Cf. "Mem." II. viii. 1. (51) {phoros}, tributum. Al. "property-tax." Cf. "Econ." ii. 6. (52) {telos}, vectigal. Sturz, "Lex. Xen." s.v. Cf. "Pol. Ath." i. 3.
(49) "And police officers." (50) Cf. "Mem." II. viii. 1. (51) {phoros}, tax. Al. "property-tax." Cf. "Econ." ii. 6. (52) {telos}, revenue. Sturz, "Lex. Xen." s.v. Cf. "Pol. Ath." i. 3.
And there is another thing. So long as I was rich, they threw in my teeth as a reproach that I was friends with Socrates, but now that I am become a beggar no one troubles his head two straws about the matter. Once more, the while I rolled in plenty I had everything to lose, and, as a rule, I lost it; what the state did not exact, some mischance stole from me. But now that is over. I lose nothing, having nought to lose; but, on the contrary, I have everything to gain, and live in hope of some day getting something. (53)
And there’s one more thing. As long as I was wealthy, people constantly reminded me that I was friends with Socrates as a way to insult me, but now that I’m a beggar, no one cares about it at all. When I was rich, I had everything to lose, and typically, I did lose it; what the state didn’t take, some accident did. But now that’s all behind me. I’m not losing anything since I have nothing to lose; instead, I have everything to gain, and I live in hope of one day getting something. (53)
(53) "I feed on the pleasures of hope, and fortune in the future."
(53) "I thrive on the joys of hope and the good luck that awaits in the future."
Call. And so, of course, your one prayer is that you may never more be rich, and if you are visited by a dream of luck your one thought is to offer sacrifice to Heaven to avert misfortune. (54)
Call. And so, of course, your only wish is that you never become rich again, and if you happen to dream of good fortune, your only thought is to make an offering to Heaven to prevent bad luck. (54)
(54) Or, "you wake up in a fright, and offer sacrifice to the 'Averters.'" For {tois apotropaiois} see Aristoph. "Plutus," 359; Plat. "Laws," 854 B; "Hell." III. iii. 4.
(54) Or, "you wake up in a panic and make a sacrifice to the 'Averters.'" For {tois apotropaiois} see Aristoph. "Plutus," 359; Plat. "Laws," 854 B; "Hell." III. iii. 4.
Char. No, that I do not. On the contrary, I run my head into each danger most adventurously. I endure, if haply I may see a chance of getting something from some quarter of the sky some day.
Char. No, I don't do that. On the contrary, I throw myself into every danger fearlessly. I persevere, hoping that one day I might find an opportunity coming from somewhere up in the sky.
Come now (Socrates exclaimed), it lies with you, sir, you, Antisthenes, to explain to us, how it is that you, with means so scanty, make so loud a boast of wealth.
Come on now (Socrates exclaimed), it’s up to you, sir, you, Antisthenes, to explain to us how, with such limited resources, you can brag so much about being wealthy.
Because (he answered) I hold to the belief, sirs, that wealth and poverty do not lie in a man's estate, but in men's souls. Even in private life how many scores of people have I seen, who, although they roll in wealth, yet deem themselves so poor, there is nothing they will shrink from, neither toil nor danger, in order to add a little to their store. (55) I have known two brothers, (56) heirs to equal fortunes, one of whom has enough, more than enough, to cover his expenditure; the other is in absolute indigence. And so to monarchs, there are not a few, I perceive, so ravenous of wealth that they will outdo the veriest vagrants in atrocity. Want (57) prompts a thousand crimes, you must admit. Why do men steal? why break burglariously into houses? why hale men and women captive and make slaves of them? Is it not from want? Nay, there are monarchs who at one fell swoop destroy whole houses, make wholesale massacre, and oftentimes reduce entire states to slavery, and all for the sake of wealth. These I must needs pity for the cruel malady which plagues them. Their condition, to my mind, resembles that poor creature's who, in spite of all he has (58) and all he eats, can never stay the wolf that gnaws his vitals.
Because (he answered) I believe, gentlemen, that wealth and poverty don’t come from a person's possessions, but from their souls. Even in everyday life, how many people have I seen who, despite being wealthy, feel so poor that they will do anything, even face danger or hard work, to add a little to their wealth? (55) I have known two brothers, (56) both heirs to similar fortunes, where one has more than enough to cover his expenses while the other is completely broke. Similarly, there are many rulers who, greedy for wealth, can be more ruthless than the most desperate beggars. You must agree that need drives people to commit countless crimes. Why do men steal? Why break into homes? Why kidnap and enslave others? Isn’t it out of need? Moreover, there are kings who destroy entire households in a single blow, commit mass killings, and often enslave entire nations, all for the sake of wealth. I can’t help but feel sorry for them for the cruel affliction that torments them. Their condition reminds me of that poor soul who, despite having everything (58) and consuming all he wants, can never escape the hunger that eats away at him.
(55) Cf. "Cyrop." VIII. ii. 21; Hor. "Epist." i. 2. 26, "semper avarus eget." (56) Is Antisthenes thinking of Callias and Hermogenes? (presuming these are sons of Hipponicus and brothers). Cf. "Mem." II. x. 3. (57) Or, "'Tis want that does it." See "Pol. Ath." i. 5; "Rev," i. 1. (58) Reading {ekhon}, or if {pinon}, transl. "who eats and drinks, but never sates himself."
(55) Cf. "Cyrop." VIII. ii. 21; Hor. "Epist." i. 2. 26, "always greedy never satisfied." (56) Is Antisthenes referring to Callias and Hermogenes? (assuming these are the sons of Hipponicus and brothers). Cf. "Mem." II. x. 3. (57) Or, "It's need that causes it." See "Pol. Ath." i. 5; "Rev," i. 1. (58) Reading {ekhon}, or if {pinon}, translates to "who eats and drinks, but is never satisfied."
But as to me, my riches are so plentiful I cannot lay my hands on them myself; (59) yet for all that I have enough to eat till my hunger is stayed, to drink till my thirst is sated; (60) to clothe myself withal; and out of doors not Callias there, with all his riches, is more safe than I from shivering; and when I find myself indoors, what warmer shirting (61) do I need than my bare walls? what ampler greatcoat than the tiles above my head? these seem to suit me well enough; and as to bedclothes, I am not so ill supplied but it is a business to arouse me in the morning.
But for me, my wealth is so vast that I can't even get my hands on it myself; (59) still, I have enough to eat until I'm no longer hungry, enough to drink until I'm no longer thirsty; (60) I have clothes to wear; and outside, no one is safer from the cold than I am, not even Callias with all his riches. When I'm inside, I don't need anything warmer than my bare walls, and I don't need a bigger coat than the roof over my head. These things work just fine for me; and as for blankets, I'm not lacking enough that it’s hard to wake me up in the morning.
(59) "That I can scarce discover any portion of it." Zeune cf. "Econ." viii. 2. (60) So "the master" himself. See "Mem." I. ii. 1, vi. 5. (61) Cf. Aristot. "Pol." ii. 8. 1, of Hippodamus.
(59) "I can hardly find any part of it." Zeune cf. "Econ." viii. 2. (60) So "the master" himself. See "Mem." I. ii. 1, vi. 5. (61) Cf. Aristot. "Pol." ii. 8. 1, of Hippodamus.
And as to sexual desire, my body's need is satisfied by what comes first to hand. Indeed, there is no lack of warmth in the caress which greets me, just because it is unsought by others. (62)
And when it comes to physical desire, my body's needs are met by whatever is immediately available. In fact, there's plenty of warmth in the touch I receive, even if it's not something others actively want. (62)
(62) Cf. "Mem." I. iii. 14, the germ of cynicism and stoicism, the Socratic {XS} form of "better to marry than to burn."
(62) Cf. "Mem." I. iii. 14, the basis of cynicism and stoicism, the Socratic form of "better to marry than to burn."
Well then, these several pleasures I enjoy so fully that I am much more apt to pray for less than more of them, so strongly do I feel that some of them are sweeter than what is good for one or profitable.
Well then, I enjoy these various pleasures so much that I’m more inclined to ask for less of them rather than more, as I strongly believe that some of them are more enjoyable than what is truly good or beneficial for me.
But of all the precious things in my possession, I reckon this the choicest, that were I robbed of my whole present stock, there is no work so mean, but it would amply serve me to furnish me with sustenance. Why, look you, whenever I desire to fare delicately, I have not to purchase precious viands in the market, which becomes expensive, but I open the storehouse of my soul, and dole them out. (63) Indeed, as far as pleasure goes, I find it better to await desire before I suffer meat or drink to pass my lips, than to have recourse to any of your costly viands, as, for instance, now, when I have chanced on this fine Thasian wine, (64) and sip it without thirst. But indeed, the man who makes frugality, not wealth of worldly goods, his aim, is on the face of it a much more upright person. And why?—the man who is content with what he has will least of all be prone to clutch at what is his neighbour's.
But out of all the valuable things I have, I think this is the best: if I were to lose all my current possessions, there’s nothing so simple that it wouldn't provide me with what I need to live. You see, whenever I want to enjoy something special, I don’t have to go buy expensive food from the market, which can get costly; instead, I just open the storehouse of my mind and dish it out. Indeed, when it comes to pleasure, I find it better to wait for desire before I let any food or drink touch my lips than to turn to any of your pricy dishes. For example, right now, I’ve stumbled upon this excellent Thasian wine, and I enjoy it without feeling thirsty. But honestly, a person who aims for frugality rather than accumulating worldly wealth is obviously a much more decent person. And why is that? Because someone who is satisfied with what they have is the least likely to covet their neighbor's belongings.
(63) Or, "turn to the storehouse of a healthy appetite." See "Apol." 18, the same sentiment "ex ore Socratis." (64) See Athen. "Deipnos." i. 28.
(63) Or, "turn to the storehouse of a healthy appetite." See "Apol." 18, the same sentiment "from the mouth of Socrates." (64) See Athen. "Deipnos." i. 28.
And here's a point worth noting. Wealth of my sort will make you liberal of soul. Look at Socrates; from him it was I got these riches. He did not supply me with it by weight or by measure, but just as much as I could carry, he with bounteous hand consigned to me. And I, too, grudge it to no man now. To all my friends without distinction I am ready to display my opulence: come one, come all; and whosoever likes to take a share is welcome to the wealth that lies within my soul. Yes, and moreover, that most luxurious of possessions, (65) unbroken leisure, you can see, is mine, which leaves me free to contemplate things worthy of contemplation, (66) and to drink in with my ears all charming sounds. And what I value most, freedom to spend whole days in pure scholastic intercourse (67) with Socrates, to whom I am devoted. (68) And he, on his side, is not the person to admire those whose tale of gold and silver happens to be the largest, but those who are well-pleasing to him he chooses for companions, and will consort with to the end.
And here's an important point to consider. My kind of wealth makes you generous at heart. Look at Socrates; that's where I got my riches. He didn't hand it to me by weight or measure, but gave me as much as I could handle, generously sharing. And now, I don't hesitate to share it with anyone. I’m ready to show off my wealth to all my friends: come one, come all; anyone who wants a piece is welcome to the riches within my soul. Plus, the most valuable possession of all, uninterrupted leisure, is mine, allowing me to reflect on worthy ideas and soak in all the beautiful sounds around me. What I treasure the most is the freedom to spend entire days in insightful discussions with Socrates, to whom I am devoted. And he, for his part, doesn't admire those who just have the most gold and silver but instead chooses companions based on who pleases him, sticking with them for the long haul.
(65) See Eur. "Ion," 601. Lit. "at every moment I command it." (66) "To gaze upon all fairest shows (like a spectator in the theatre), and to drink in sounds most delectable." So Walt Whitman. (67) Aristot. "Rhet." ii. 4. 12; "Eth. N." ix. 4. 9. (68) See "Mem." III. xi. 17.
(65) See Eur. "Ion," 601. Lit. "at every moment I command it." (66) "To look at all the most beautiful displays (like an audience member in the theater), and to soak in the most delightful sounds." So Walt Whitman. (67) Aristot. "Rhet." ii. 4. 12; "Eth. N." ix. 4. 9. (68) See "Mem." III. xi. 17.
With these words the speaker ended, and Callias exclaimed:
With those words, the speaker finished, and Callias exclaimed:
By Hera, I envy you your wealth, Antisthenes, firstly, because the state does not lay burthens on you and treat you like a slave; and secondly, people do not fall into a rage with you when you refuse to be their creditor.
By Hera, I envy your wealth, Antisthenes, first, because the government doesn’t put burdens on you and treat you like a servant; and second, people don’t get angry with you when you refuse to lend them money.
You may stay your envy (interposed Niceratus), I shall presently present myself to borrow of him this same key of his to independence. (69) Trained as I am to cast up figures by my master Homer—
You can hold off on your jealousy (Niceratus interrupted), I'm about to go ask him for that key to independence. (69) Since I've been taught to calculate by my mentor Homer—
Seven tripods, which ne'er felt the fire, and of gold ten talents And burnished braziers twenty, and horses twelve— (70)
Seven tripods that never felt the fire, and ten talents of gold And twenty polished braziers, and twelve horses— (70)
by weight and measure duly reckoned, (71) I cannot stay my craving for enormous wealth. And that's the reason certain people, I daresay, imagine I am inordinately fond of riches.
by weight and measure properly considered, (71) I can't control my desire for vast wealth. And that's why some people, I suppose, think I have an excessive love for riches.
(69) Or, "his want-for-nothing," or, "supply-all." (70) Niceratus quotes "Il." ix. 122, 123, 263, 264. (71) Or, "by number and by measure," "so much apiece, so much a pound," in reference to Antisthenes' remark that Socrates does not stint his "good things."
(69) Or, "his having everything he needs," or, "providing everything." (70) Niceratus quotes "Il." ix. 122, 123, 263, 264. (71) Or, "by quantity and by measure," "so much each, so much a pound," referring to Antisthenes' comment that Socrates doesn't hold back on his "good things."
The remark drew forth a peal of laughter from the company, who thought the speaker hit the truth exactly.
The comment sparked a burst of laughter from the group, who felt the speaker nailed the truth perfectly.
Then some one: It lies with you, Hermogenes, to tell us who your friends are; and next, to demonstrate the greatness of their power and their care for you, if you would prove to us your right to pride yoruself on them.
Then someone said: It's up to you, Hermogenes, to tell us who your friends are; and next, to show us how powerful they are and how much they care about you, if you want to prove that you have a reason to take pride in them.
Herm. That the gods know all things, that the present and the future lie before their eyes, are tenets held by Hellenes and barbarians alike. This is obvious; or else, why do states and nations, one and all, inquire of the gods by divination what they ought to do and what they ought not? This also is apparent, that we believe them able to do us good and to do us harm; or why do all men pray to Heaven to avert the evil and bestow the good? Well then, my boast is that these gods, who know and can do all things, (72) deign to be my friends; so that, by reason of their care for me, I can never escape from their sight, (73) neither by night nor by day, whithersoever I essay to go, whatsoever I take in hand to do. (74) But because they know beforehand the end and issue of each event, they give me signals, sending messengers, be it some voice, (75) or vision of the night, with omens of the solitary bird, which tell me what I should and what I should not do. When I listen to their warnings all goes well with me, I have no reason to repent; but if, as ere now has been the case, I have been disobedient, chastisement has overtaken me.
Herm. The gods know everything, and the present and the future are clear to them, a belief shared by both Greeks and non-Greeks. This is obvious; otherwise, why do all states and nations seek guidance from the gods through divination about what actions to take and what to avoid? It's also clear that we think they can help or harm us; otherwise, why do people pray to Heaven to prevent bad things and to bring good things? Well then, my pride is that these gods, who know and can do everything, choose to be my friends; because of their concern for me, I can never escape their watchful eyes, neither at night nor during the day, no matter where I try to go or whatever I set out to do. But since they already know the outcome of every event, they send me signals, whether through some voice or a dream at night, with signs from a lone bird, guiding me on what I should and shouldn’t do. When I heed their warnings, everything goes well for me, and I have no regrets; but if, as has happened before, I disobey, I end up facing consequences.
(72) Cf. "Mem." I. i. 19; I. iv. 18. (73) Schneid. cf. Hom. "Il." x. 279, {oude se letho kinomenos}, "nor doth any motion of mine escape thee" (A. Lang); and see Arrian, "Epictet." i. 12. 3. (74) Cf. Ps. cxxxix. "Domine probasti." (75) See "Mem." I. i. 3; "Apol." xii. 13; "Cyrop." VIII. vii. 3.
(72) Cf. "Mem." I. i. 19; I. iv. 18. (73) Schneid. cf. Hom. "Il." x. 279, {oude se letho kinomenos}, "nor does any movement of mine escape you" (A. Lang); and see Arrian, "Epictet." i. 12. 3. (74) Cf. Ps. cxxxix. "Lord, you have searched me." (75) See "Mem." I. i. 3; "Apol." xii. 13; "Cyrop." VIII. vii. 3.
Then Socrates: All this I well believe, (76) but there is one thing I would gladly learn of you: What service do you pay the gods, so to secure their friendship?
Then Socrates: I really believe all of this, (76) but there’s one thing I’d love to know from you: What do you do for the gods to keep their favor?
(76) Lit. "Nay, nought of the things you tell us is incredible, but..."
(76) Lit. "No, none of the things you're telling us is unbelievable, but..."
Truly it is not a ruinous service, Socrates (he answered)—far from it. I give them thanks, which is not costly. I make return to them of all they give to me from time to time. I speak well of them, with all the strength I have. And whenever I take their sacred names to witness, I do not wittingly falsify my word.
Truly, it’s not a harmful service, Socrates (he replied)—not at all. I thank them, which doesn’t cost anything. I return to them everything they give me from time to time. I speak highly of them, with all my strength. And whenever I call on their sacred names to witness, I don’t intentionally misrepresent my words.
Then God be praised (said Socrates), if being what you are, you have such friends; the gods themselves, it would appear, delight in nobleness of soul. (77)
Then God be praised (said Socrates), if being who you are, you have such friends; it seems that the gods themselves take pleasure in the nobility of the soul. (77)
(77) {kalokagathia}, "beautiful and gentle manhood."
(77) {kalokagathia}, "attractive and kind manhood."
Thus, in solemn sort, the theme was handled, thus gravely ended.
Thus, in a serious manner, the theme was addressed, and thus it concluded.
But now it was the jester's turn, and so they fell to asking him: (78) What could he see to pride himself upon so vastly in the art of making people laugh?
But now it was the jester's turn, so they started asking him: (78) What could he possibly find to be so proud of in the art of making people laugh?
(78) Lit. "now that they had come to Philippus (in the 'period' of discussion), they..." Or read, after Hartman, "An. Xen." p. 242, {eken} (sc. {o logos}).
(78) Lit. "now that they had come to Philippus (in the 'period' of discussion), they..." Or read, after Hartman, "An. Xen." p. 242, {eken} (sc. {o logos}).
Surely I have good reason (he replied). The whole world knows my business is to set them laughing, so when they are in luck's way, they eagerly invite me to a share of it; but if ill betide them, helter-skelter off they go, and never once turn back, (79) so fearful are they I may set them laughing will he nill he.
Surely I have good reason, he replied. Everyone knows my job is to make them laugh, so when things are going well for them, they eagerly invite me to join in; but if something bad happens, they run off in a panic and never look back, so afraid they are that I might make them laugh whether they like it or not. (79)
(79) Plat. "Rep." 620 E; "Laws," 854 C.
(79) Plat. "Rep." 620 E; "Laws," 854 C.
Nic. Heavens! you have good reason to be proud; with me it is just the opposite. When any of my friends are doing well, they take good care to turn their backs on me, (80) but if ever it goes ill with them, they claim relationship by birth, (81) and will not let their long-lost cousin out of sight.
Nic. Wow! You have every reason to be proud; for me, it’s the complete opposite. When my friends are thriving, they make sure to ignore me, but when things go wrong for them, they suddenly claim me as family and won’t let their long-lost cousin out of their sight.
(80) Or, "they take good care to get out of my way," "they hold aloof from me entirely." (81) Or, "produce the family-pedigree and claim me for a cousin." Cf. Lucian v., "Tim." 49; Ter. "Phorm." ii. 33, 45.
(80) Or, "they make sure to stay out of my way," "they completely distance themselves from me." (81) Or, "show the family tree and claim me as a cousin." Cf. Lucian v., "Tim." 49; Ter. "Phorm." ii. 33, 45.
Charm. Well, well! and you, sir (turning to the Syracusan), what do you pride yourself upon? No doubt, upon the boy?
Charm. Well, well! And you, sir (turning to the Syracusan), what do you take pride in? No doubt, it's the boy?
The Syr. Not I, indeed; I am terribly afraid concerning him. It is plain enough to me that certain people are contriving for his ruin. (82)
The Syr. Not me, for sure; I’m really worried about him. It’s clear to me that some people are plotting for his downfall. (82)
(82) {diaphtheirai} = (1) to destroy, make away with; (2) to ruin and corrupt, seduce by bribes or otherwise.
(82) {diaphtheirai} = (1) to destroy, get rid of; (2) to ruin and corrupt, seduce with bribes or in other ways.
Good gracious! (83) (Socrates exclaimed, when he heard that), what crime can they conceive your boy is guilty of that they should wish to make an end of him?
Good gracious! (83) (Socrates exclaimed when he heard that), what crime can they think your boy has committed that they want to get rid of him?
(83) Lit. "Heracles!" "Zounds!"
"Heracles!" "Wow!"
The Syr. I do not say they want to murder him, but wheedle him away with bribes to pass his nights with them.
The Syr. I’m not saying they want to kill him, but they’re trying to sweet-talk him into spending his nights with them.
Soc. And if that happened, you on your side, it appears, believe the boy will be corrupted?
Soc. And if that happens, you seem to think the boy will be corrupted?
The Syr. Beyond all shadow of a doubt, most villainously.
The Syr. Without a doubt, extremely wicked.
Soc. And you, of course, you never dream of such a thing. You don't spend nights with him?
Soc. And you, of course, you wouldn’t even think of something like that. You don’t spend the nights with him?
The Syr. Of course I do, all night and every night.
The Syr. Of course I do, all night and every night.
Soc. By Hera, what a mighty piece of luck (84) for you—to be so happily compounded, of such flesh and blood. You alone can't injure those who sleep beside you. You have every right, it seems, to boast of your own flesh, if nothing else.
Soc. By Hera, what a huge stroke of luck for you—to be so well put together, made of such flesh and blood. You alone can't harm those who lie next to you. You have every reason, it seems, to take pride in your own body, if nothing else.
(84) Cf. Plat. "Symp." 217 A.
(84) Cf. Plat. "Symp." 217 A.
The Syr. Nay, in sooth, it is not on that I pride myself.
The Syr. No, honestly, that's not what I take pride in.
Soc. Well, on what then?
Soc. Well, on what?
The Syr. Why, on the silly fools who come and see my puppet show. (85) I live on them.
The Syr. Why, on the silly people who come to watch my puppet show. (85) I depend on them.
(85) "My marionettes." Cf. Herod. ii. 48; Lucian lxxii., "De Syr. d." 16; Aristot. "de Mund." 6.
(85) "My puppets." Cf. Herod. ii. 48; Lucian lxxii., "De Syr. d." 16; Aristot. "de Mund." 6.
Phil. Ah yes! and that explains how the other day I heard you praying to the gods to grant you, wheresoe'er you chance to be, great store of corn and wine, but dearth of wits. (86)
Phil. Ah yes! And that explains how the other day I heard you praying to the gods to grant you, wherever you happen to be, a lot of corn and wine, but a lack of common sense. (86)
(86) Or, "of fruits abundance, but of wits a famine." Cf. Plat. "Rep." 546 A. His prayer resembles that of the thievish trader in Ovid, "Fast." v. 675 foll., "Grant me to-day my daily... fraud!" but in spite of himself (like Dogberry), he seems to pray to the gods to "write him down an ass"!
(86) Or, "plenty of fruits, but short on smarts." See Plat. "Rep." 546 A. His request is similar to that of the sneaky merchant in Ovid, "Fast." v. 675 and following, "Give me today my daily... deception!" But despite his intentions (like Dogberry), he appears to be asking the gods to "mark him as a fool!"
Pass on (said Callias); now it is your turn, Socrates. What have you to say to justify your choice? How can you boast of so discredited an art? (87)
Pass on (said Callias); now it's your turn, Socrates. What do you have to say to justify your choice? How can you brag about such a discredited art? (87)
(87) Sc. "the hold-door trade."
(87) Sc. "the door-to-door trade."
He answered: Let us first decide (88) what are the duties of the good go-between; (89) and please to answer every question without hesitating; let us know the points to which we mutually assent. (90) Are you agreed to that?
He replied: Let's first figure out what the responsibilities of a good go-between are; and please answer every question without hesitation; let us know the points we both agree on. Are you in agreement with that?
(88) Or, "define in common." Cf. "Mem." IV. vi. 15. (89) Or, "man-praiser." Cf. "The Manx Witch," p. 47 (T. E. Brown), "And Harry, more like a dooiney-molla For Jack, lak helpin him to woo." See, too, Mr. Hall Caine's "Manxman," p. 73. (90) See Plat. "Rep." 342 D, for a specimen of Socratic procedure, "from one point of agreement to another."
(88) Or, "define together." Cf. "Mem." IV. vi. 15. (89) Or, "man-praiser." Cf. "The Manx Witch," p. 47 (T. E. Brown), "And Harry, more like a dooiney-molla For Jack, like helping him to woo." See also Mr. Hall Caine's "Manxman," p. 73. (90) See Plat. "Rep." 342 D, for an example of Socratic method, "from one point of agreement to another."
The Company, in chorus. Without a doubt (they answered, and the formula, once started, was every time repeated by the company, full chorus).
The Company, together. Definitely (they replied, and the phrase, once begun, was repeated each time by the group, in full chorus).
Soc. Are you agreed it is the business of a good go-between to make him (or her) on whom he plies his art agreeable to those with them? (91)
Soc. Do you agree that it's the job of a good intermediary to make the person they're working with appealing to others? (91)
(91) Al. "their followers." See "Mem." II. vi. 36.
(91) Al. "their followers." See "Mem." II. vi. 36.
Omnes. Without a doubt.
Everyone. No doubt about it.
Soc. And, further, that towards agreeableness, one step at any rate consists in wearing a becoming fashion of the hair and dress? (92) Are you agreed to that?
Soc. And, also, that to be charming, one way at least is to have a nice hairstyle and dress well? (92) Do you agree with that?
(92) See Becker, "Char." Exc. iii. to Sc. xi.
(92) See Becker, "Char." Exc. iii. to Sc. xi.
Omnes. Without a doubt.
Everyone. No doubt.
Soc. And we know for certain, that with the same eyes a man may dart a look of love or else of hate (93) on those he sees. Are you agreed?
Soc. And we know for sure that with the same eyes a person can cast a look of love or hate (93) at those they see. Do you agree?
(93) See "Mem." III. x. 5.
(93) See "Mem." III. x. 5.
Omnes. Without a doubt.
Everyone. Definitely.
Soc. Well! and with the same tongue and lips and voice may speak with modesty or boastfulnes?
Soc. Well! And with the same tongue, lips, and voice, one can speak with humility or arrogance?
Omnes. Without a doubt.
Definitely.
Soc. And there are words that bear the stamp of hate, and words that tend to friendliness? (94)
Soc. Are there words that carry the mark of hate and words that promote kindness? (94)
(94) Cf. Ep. St. James iii. 10, "Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing."
(94) Cf. Ep. St. James iii. 10, "From the same mouth come both blessings and curses."
Omnes. Without a doubt.
Everyone. No question about it.
Soc. The good go-between will therefore make his choice between them, and teach only what conduces to agreeableness?
Soc. So, the good mediator will choose between them and teach only what leads to harmony, right?
Omnes. Without a doubt.
Everyone. No question about it.
Soc. And is he the better go-between who can make his clients pleasing to one person only, or can make them pleasing to a number? (95)
Soc. Is the better go-between the one who can make his clients appealing to just one person, or the one who can make them appealing to many? (95)
(95) Or, "to the many." The question is ambiguous. {e} = "an" or "quam."
(95) Or, "to the many." The question is unclear. {e} = "an" or "quam."
The company was here divided; the one half answered, "Yes, of course, the largest number," whilst the others still maintained, "Without a doubt."
The company was split; one half said, "Yes, of course, the largest number," while the others insisted, "Without a doubt."
And Socrates, remarking, "That proposition is agreed to also," thus proceeded: And if further he were able to make them pleasing to the whole community, should we not have found in this accomplished person an arch-go-between?
And Socrates said, "We can agree on that too," and continued: If he could also make them appealing to the entire community, wouldn't we have found in this skilled individual the ultimate mediator?
Clearly so (they answered with one voice).
Clearly so (they replied in unison).
Soc. If then a man had power to make his clients altogether pleasing; that man, I say, might justly pride himself upon his art, and should by rights receive a large reward? (96)
Soc. If a man had the ability to make his clients completely happy; that man, I say, should rightfully take pride in his skill and should be fairly compensated well for it? (96)
(96) Or, "he deserves to do a rattling business," "to take handsome fees." Cf. Sheridan's Mrs. Coupler, in "A Trip to Scarborough."
(96) Or, "he deserves to do a booming business," "to collect good fees." Cf. Sheridan's Mrs. Coupler, in "A Trip to Scarborough."
And when these propositions were agreed to also, he turned about and said: Just such a man, I take it, is before you in the person of Antisthenes! (97)
And when these ideas were accepted as well, he turned around and said: Just like that, I believe, is the case with Antisthenes! (97)
(97) See Diog. Laert. "Antisth." VI. i. 8; Plut. "Symp." ii. 1. 503.
(97) See Diog. Laert. "Antisth." VI. i. 8; Plut. "Symp." ii. 1. 503.
Whereupon Antisthenes exclaimed: What! are you going to pass on the business? will you devolve this art of yours on me as your successor, Socrates? (98)
Whereupon Antisthenes exclaimed: What! Are you going to hand off the business? Are you going to pass this skill of yours on to me as your successor, Socrates? (98)
(98) Or, "going to give up business, and hand on the trade to me as your successor?"
(98) Or, "Are you going to quit the business and pass the trade on to me as your successor?"
I will, upon my word, I will (he answered): since I see that you have practised to some purpose, nay elaborated, an art which is the handmaid to this other.
I will, honestly, I will (he replied): since I see that you have really honed, even perfected, a skill that complements this other one.
And what may that be? asked Antisthenes.
And what could that be? Antisthenes asked.
Soc. The art of the procurer. (99)
Soc. The art of the middleman. (99)
(99) Cf. Plat. "Theaet." 150 A; Aristot. "Eth. N." v. 2, 13; Aeschin. 3, 7; Plut. "Solon," 23.
(99) Cf. Plat. "Theaet." 150 A; Aristot. "Eth. N." v. 2, 13; Aeschin. 3, 7; Plut. "Solon," 23.
The other (in a tone of deep vexation): Pray, what thing of the sort are you aware I ever perpetrated?
The other (in a tone of deep irritation): Please, what exactly do you think I ever did?
Soc. I am aware that it was you who introduced our host here, Callias, to that wise man Prodicus; (100) they were a match, you saw, the one enamoured of philosophy, and the other in need of money. It was you again, I am well enough aware, who introduced him once again to Hippias (101) of Elis, from whom he learnt his "art of memory"; (102) since which time he has become a very ardent lover, (103) from inability to forget each lovely thing he sets his eyes on. And quite lately, if I am not mistaken, it was you who sounded in my ears such praise of our visitor from Heraclea, (104) that first you made me thirst for his society, and then united us. (105) For which indeed I am your debtor, since I find him a fine handsome fellow and true gentleman. (106) And did you not, moreover, sing the praises of Aeschylus of Phlius (107) in my ears and mine in his?—in fact, affected us so much by what you said, we fell in love and took to coursing wildly in pursuit of one another like two dogs upon a trail. (108)
Soc. I know it was you who introduced our host, Callias, to that wise man Prodicus; they were a perfect match, one in love with philosophy and the other in need of cash. It was also you who connected him again with Hippias from Elis, from whom he learned his "art of memory"; since then, he has become a passionate lover, unable to forget every beautiful thing he sees. And recently, if I’m not mistaken, it was you who praised our visitor from Heraclea so much that you made me eager to be in his company, and then brought us together. For that, I owe you one, as I find him to be a really handsome guy and a true gentleman. And didn’t you also sing the praises of Aeschylus of Phlius to me and to him?—you affected us so much with your words that we fell in love and started chasing each other like two dogs on a scent.
(100) Or, "the sage," "the sophist." See "Mem." I. vi. 13; II. i. 21. (101) See "Mem." IV. iv. 5; and for his art of memory cf. Plat. "Hipp. min." 368 D; "Hipp. maj." 285 E. (102) The "memoria technica" (see Aristot. "de An." iii. 3, 6), said to have been invented by Simonides of Ceos. Cic. "de Or." ii. 86; "de Fin." ii. 32; Quinct. xi. 2. 559. (103) Or, "has grown amorous to a degree" (al. "an adept in love's lore himself." Cf. Plat. "Rep." 474 D, "an authority in love."— Jowett) "for the simple reason he can't forget each lovely thing he once has seen." Through the "ars memoriae" of Hippias, it becomes an "idee fixe" of the mind. (104) Perhaps Zeuxippus. See Plat. "Prot." 318 B. Al. Zeuxis, also a native of Heraclea. See "Mem." I. iv. 3; "Econ." x. 1. (105) Or, "introduced him to me." Cf. "Econ." iii. 14; Plat. "Lach." 200 D. (106) "An out-and-out {kalos te kagathos}." (107) Who this Phliasian is, no one knows. (108) Al. "like two hounds chevying after one another."
(100) Or, "the wise person," "the teacher." See "Mem." I. vi. 13; II. i. 21. (101) See "Mem." IV. iv. 5; and for his memory techniques cf. Plat. "Hipp. min." 368 D; "Hipp. maj." 285 E. (102) The "memory technique" (see Aristot. "de An." iii. 3, 6), supposedly invented by Simonides of Ceos. Cic. "de Or." ii. 86; "de Fin." ii. 32; Quinct. xi. 2. 559. (103) Or, "has become infatuated to the point" (also "an expert in love himself." Cf. Plat. "Rep." 474 D, "a master in love."—Jowett) "simply because he can’t forget every beautiful thing he has ever seen." Through Hippias' "memory art," it turns into a "fixed idea" in the mind. (104) Possibly Zeuxippus. See Plat. "Prot." 318 B. Also Zeuxis, who was from Heraclea. See "Mem." I. iv. 3; "Econ." x. 1. (105) Or, "gave him to me." Cf. "Econ." iii. 14; Plat. "Lach." 200 D. (106) "A total {kalos te kagathos}." (107) No one knows who this Phliasian is. (108) Also, "like two dogs chasing after each other."
With such examples of your wonder-working skill before my eyes, I must suppose you are a first-rate matchmaker. For consider, a man with insight to discern two natures made to be of service to each other, and with power to make these same two people mutually enamoured! That is the sort of man, I take it, who should weld together states in friendship; cement alliances with gain to the contracting parties; (109) and, in general, be found an acquisition to those several states; to friends and intimates, and partisans in war, a treasure worth possessing. (110) But you, my friend, you got quite angry. One would suppose I had given you an evil name in calling you a first-rate matchmaker.
With such examples of your amazing skills in front of me, I have to assume you're a top-notch matchmaker. Just think about it—a person who can see that two people are meant to help each other, and has the ability to make them fall in love! That's the kind of person who should create friendships between states, strengthen alliances to benefit everyone involved, and generally be a valuable asset to those various states; to friends and close ones, and allies in battle, someone truly worth having. But you, my friend, you got really upset. You’d think I had insulted you by calling you a top-notch matchmaker.
(109) Al. "and cement desirable matrimonial connections." Cf. Aristot. "Pol." iii. 9, 13. 1280 B; v. 4, 5-8. 1303 B. (110) See the conversation with Critobulus, so often referred to, {peri philias}, in "Mem." II. vi.
(109) Al. "and create desirable marriage connections." Cf. Aristot. "Pol." iii. 9, 13. 1280 B; v. 4, 5-8. 1303 B. (110) See the conversation with Critobulus, often mentioned, {peri philias}, in "Mem." II. vi.
Yes (he answered meekly), but now I am calm. It is clear enough, if I possess these powers I shall find myself surcharged with spiritual riches.
Yes (he replied softly), but now I feel calm. It's pretty clear that if I have these abilities, I'll be filled with spiritual wealth.
In this fashion the cycle of the speeches was completed. (111)
In this way, the cycle of speeches was completed. (111)
(111) See Hug, "Einleitung," xxxi. "Quellen des Platonischen Symposion."
(111) See Hug, "Introduction," xxxi. "Sources of the Platonic Symposium."
V
V
Then Callias: Our eyes are on you, Critobulus. Yours to enter the lists (1) against the champion Socrates, who claims the prize of beauty. Do you hesitate?
Then Callias: We're watching you, Critobulus. It's your turn to step up (1) against the champion Socrates, who is contending for the prize of beauty. Are you uncertain?
(1) Soph. "Fr." 234; Thuc. i. 93.
(1) Soph. "Fr." 234; Thuc. i. 93.
Soc. Likely enough he does, for possibly he sees Sir Pandarus stands high in their esteem who are the judges of the contest.
Soc. He probably does, since he might see that Sir Pandarus is highly regarded by those who are judging the contest.
In spite of which (retorted Critobulus), I am not for drawing back. (2) I am ready; so come on, and if you have any subtle argument to prove that you are handsomer than I am, now's your time, instruct us. But just stop one minute; have the goodness, please, to bring the lamp a little closer.
In spite of that (Critobulus shot back), I’m not backing down. (2) I’m ready; so let’s go, and if you have any clever argument to show that you’re better looking than I am, now’s your chance, enlighten us. But hold on for just a second; could you please bring the lamp a little closer?
(2) Or, "I do; but all the same, I am not for shirking." Cf. Aristoph. "Frogs," 860, {etiomos eum egoge, kouk anaduomai, daknein}: "I'm up to it; I am resolved" (Frere); Dem. "de F. Leg." 406 20: "His resolution never reached that point, but shrank back, for his conscience checked it" (Kennedy).
(2) Or, "I do; but still, I'm not one to back down." Cf. Aristoph. "Frogs," 860, {etiomos eum egoge, kouk anaduomai, daknein}: "I'm ready for it; I'm determined" (Frere); Dem. "de F. Leg." 406 20: "His determination never fully developed, but pulled back because his conscience stopped him" (Kennedy).
Soc. Well then, I call upon you first of all, as party to this suit, to undergo the preliminary examination. (3) Attend to what I say, and please be good enough to answer.
Soc. Alright, I'm going to ask you first, as someone involved in this case, to go through the preliminary questioning. (3) Pay attention to what I'm saying, and please be kind enough to respond.
(3) The {anakrisis}, or "previous inquiry" (before one of the archons) of parties concerned in a suit, to see whether the action lay. Cf. Plat. "Charm." 176 C. See Gow, "Companion," xiv. 74.
(3) The {anakrisis}, or "preliminary inquiry" (before one of the archons) of the parties involved in a lawsuit, to determine if the case should proceed. Cf. Plat. "Charm." 176 C. See Gow, "Companion," xiv. 74.
Crit. Do you be good enough yourself to put your questions.
Crit. Are you good enough to ask your questions?
Soc. Do you consider that the quality of beauty is confined to man, or is it to be found in other objects also? What is your belief on this point?
Soc. Do you think that beauty is only found in people, or can it also be found in other things? What are your thoughts on this?
Crit. For my part, I consider it belongs alike to animals—the horse, the ox—and to many things inanimate: that is to say, a shield, a sword, a spear are often beautiful.
Crit. For me, I think it applies to animals—the horse, the ox—and to many inanimate objects: in other words, a shield, a sword, and a spear can often be beautiful.
Soc. How is it possible that things, in no respect resembling one another, should each and all be beautiful? (4)
Soc. How is it possible that things, which don’t resemble each other at all, can all be beautiful? (4)
(4) See "Mem." III. viii. 5, quoted by Galen, "de Usu Part." i. 370.
(4) See "Mem." III. viii. 5, quoted by Galen, "de Usu Part." i. 370.
Crit. Of course it is, God bless me! if well constructed by the hand of man to suit the sort of work for which we got them, or if naturally adapted to satisfy some want, the things in either case are beautiful.
Crit. Of course it is, God bless me! If it's well made by humans to fit the kind of work we need, or if it's naturally suited to fulfill a specific need, then in either case, those things are beautiful.
Soc. Can you tell me, then, what need is satisfied by our eyes?
Soc. Can you tell me what need our eyes fulfill?
Crit. Clearly, the need of vision.
Crit. Clearly, the need for vision.
Soc. If so, my eyes are proved at once to be more beautiful than yours.
Soc. If that's the case, my eyes are definitely more beautiful than yours.
Crit. How so?
Crit. How's that?
Soc. Because yours can only see just straight in front of them, whereas mine are prominent and so projecting, they can see aslant. (5)
Soc. Because yours can only see straight ahead, while mine are prominent and protruding, they can see off to the side. (5)
(5) Or, "squint sideways and command the flanks."
(5) Or, "look sideways and give orders to the sides."
Crit. And amongst all animals, you will tell us that the crab has loveliest eyes? (6) Is that your statement?
Crit. And among all animals, you really think the crab has the prettiest eyes? (6) Is that what you're saying?
(6) Or, "is best provided in respect of eyeballs."
(6) Or, "is best provided regarding attention."
Soc. Decidedly, the creature has. And all the more so, since for strength and toughness its eyes by nature are the best constructed.
Soc. Definitely, the creature has. And even more so, since its eyes are naturally the best designed for strength and durability.
Crit. Well, let that pass. To come to our two noses, which is the more handsome, yours or mine?
Crit. Well, let's move on. Regarding our two noses, which one is more good-looking, yours or mine?
Soc. Mine, I imagine, if, that is, the gods presented us with noses for the sake of smelling. Your nostrils point to earth; but mine are spread out wide and flat, as if to welcome scents from every quarter.
Soc. I think, if the gods gave us noses to smell, yours points down to the ground; but mine are wide and flat, as if to welcome smells from all around.
Crit. But consider, a snubness of the nose, how is that more beautiful than straightness? (7)
Crit. But think about it, a turned-up nose, how is that more attractive than a straight one? (7)
(7) Or, "your straight nose." Cf. Plat. "Theaet." 209 C: Soc. "Or, if I had further known you not only as having nose and eyes, but as having a snub nose and prominent eyes, should I have any more notion of you than myself and others who resemble me?" Cf. also Aristot. "Pol." v. 9, 7: "A nose which varies from the ideal of straightness to a hook or snub may still be a good shape and agreeable to the eye; but if the excess be very great, all symmetry is lost, and the nose at last ceases to be a nose at all on account of some excess in one direction or defect in the other; and this is true of every other part of the human body. The same law of proportion holds in states."—Jowett.
(7) Or, "your straight nose." Cf. Plat. "Theaet." 209 C: Soc. "Or, if I had known you not just for your nose and eyes, but for having a flat nose and prominent eyes, would I have any better idea of you than of myself and others who look like me?" Cf. also Aristot. "Pol." v. 9, 7: "A nose that deviates from the ideal of straightness to a hook or flat shape can still be attractive and pleasing to the eye; however, if the deviation is too extreme, all symmetry is lost, and the nose eventually stops being recognized as a nose due to some excess in one direction or deficiency in the other; and this applies to every other part of the human body. The same rule of proportion applies in societies."—Jowett.
Soc. For this good reason, that a snub nose does not discharge the office of a barrier; (8) it allows the orbs of sight free range of vision: whilst your towering nose looks like an insulting wall of partition to shut off the two eyes. (9)
Soc. For this reason, a flat nose doesn’t act as a barrier; it gives the eyes a clear view, while your prominent nose looks like an offensive wall separating the two eyes.
(8) Or, "the humble snub is not a screen or barricade." (9) Cf. "Love's Labour Lost," v. 2. 568: Boyet. "Your nose says no, you are not, for it stands too right"; also "The Song of Solomon," vii. 4: "Thy nose is the tower of Lebanon, which looketh toward Damascus."
(8) Or, "the humble snub isn't a screen or barrier." (9) Compare "Love's Labour Lost," v. 2. 568: Boyet. "Your nose says no, you're not, because it stands too straight"; also "The Song of Solomon," vii. 4: "Your nose is like the tower of Lebanon, which looks toward Damascus."
As to the mouth (proceeded Critobulus), I give in at once; for, given mouths are made for purposes of biting, you could doubtless bite off a much larger mouthful with your mouth than I with mine.
As for the mouth, Critobulus continued, I concede right away; because mouths are meant for biting, you could definitely take a much bigger bite with your mouth than I can with mine.
Soc. Yes, and you will admit, perhaps, that I can give a softer kiss than you can, thanks to my thick lips.
Soc. Yes, and you might agree that I can deliver a softer kiss than you, thanks to my fuller lips.
Crit. It seems I have an uglier mouth than any ass.
Crit. It looks like I have a worse mouth than any donkey.
Soc. And here is a fact which you will have to reckon with, if further evidence be needed to prove that I am handsomer than you. The naiads, nymphs, divine, have as their progeny Sileni, who are much more like myself, I take it, than like you. Is that conclusive?
Soc. And here's a fact you’ll have to consider if you need more proof that I’m better looking than you. The naiads, the divine nymphs, have offspring called Sileni, who are a lot more like me, I think, than like you. Is that enough to settle it?
Nay, I give it up (cried Critobulus), I have not a word to say in answer. I am silenced. Let them record the votes. I fain would know at once what I must suffer or must pay. (10) Only (he added) let them vote in secret. (11) I am afraid your wealth and his (Antisthenes') combined may overpower me.
No way, I'm done (shouted Critobulus), I can't think of anything to say in response. I'm at a loss for words. Let them count the votes. I really want to know right now what I have to endure or how much I have to pay. (10) Just (he added) let them vote privately. (11) I'm concerned that your wealth and his (Antisthenes') together might overpower me.
(10) For this formula see "Dict. Ant." {timema}. Cf. "Econ." xi. 25; Plat. "Apol." 36 B; "Statesm." 299 A; "Laws," freq.; Dem. 529. 23; 533. 2. (11) And not as in the case described (Thuc. iv. 74), where the people (at Megara) were compelled to give sentence on the political opponents of the oligarchs by an open vote. Cf. Lysias, 133, 12, {ten de psephon ouk eis kadiskous, alla phaneran epi tas trapezas tautas dei tithenai}.
(10) For this formula see "Dict. Ant." {timema}. See also "Econ." xi. 25; Plat. "Apol." 36 B; "Statesm." 299 A; "Laws," frequently; Dem. 529. 23; 533. 2. (11) And not like the situation described (Thuc. iv. 74), where the people (in Megara) were forced to vote openly on the political adversaries of the oligarchs. See Lysias, 133, 12, {ten de psephon ouk eis kadiskous, alla phaneran epi tas trapezas tautas dei tithenai}.
Accordingly the boy and girl began to register the votes in secret, while Socrates directed the proceedings. He would have the lamp-stand (12) this time brought close up to Critobulus; the judges must on no account be taken in; the victor in the suit would get from the two judges, not a wreath of ribands (13) for a chaplet, but some kisses.
Accordingly, the boy and girl started to record the votes privately, while Socrates managed the process. He had the lamp-stand (12) moved closer to Critobulus; the judges must not be fooled at all; the winner of the case would receive, from the two judges, not a garland of ribbons (13) for a crown, but a few kisses.
(12) {ton lukhnon} here, above, S. 2, {ton lamptera}. Both, I take it, are oil-lamps, and differ merely as "light" and "lamp." (13) Cf. Plat. "Symp." 213; "Hell." V. i. 3.
(12) {ton lukhnon} here, above, S. 2, {ton lamptera}. Both, I believe, are oil lamps, differing only as "light" and "lamp." (13) Cf. Plat. "Symp." 213; "Hell." V. i. 3.
When the urns were emptied, it was found that every vote, without exception, had been cast for Critobulus. (14)
When the urns were emptied, it was discovered that every vote, without exception, had been cast for Critobulus. (14)
(14) Lit. "When the pebbles were turned out and proved to be with Critobulus, Socrates remarked, 'Papae!'" which is as much to say, "Od's pity!"
(14) Lit. "When the pebbles were turned out and proved to be with Critobulus, Socrates remarked, 'Wow!'" which is as much to say, "Oh dear!"
Whereat Socrates: Bless me! you don't say so? The coin you deal in, Critobulus, is not at all like that of Callias. His makes people just; whilst yours, like other filthy lucre, can corrupt both judge and jury. (15)
Where Socrates said: Wow! You can't be serious? The money you use, Critobulus, is nothing like Callias's. His brings out fairness in people, while yours, like other dirty money, can corrupt both the judge and the jury. (15)
(15) {kai dikastas kai kritas}, "both jury and presiding judges," i.e. the company and the boy and girl.
(15) {kai dikastas kai kritas}, "both jury and presiding judges," meaning the group and the boy and girl.
VI
VI
Thereupon some members of the party called on Critobulus to accept the meed of victory in kisses (due from boy and girl); others urged him first to bribe their master; whilst others bandied other jests. Amidst the general hilarity Hermogenes alone kept silence.
Thereupon, some members of the party urged Critobulus to accept his reward of kisses (from both boys and girls); others insisted that he should first bribe their master; while still others exchanged various jokes. Amid the general laughter, Hermogenes remained silent.
Whereat Socrates turned to the silent man, and thus accosted him: Hermogenes, what is a drunken brawl? Can you explain to us?
Whereupon Socrates turned to the quiet man and said: Hermogenes, what is a drunken fight? Can you explain it to us?
He answered: If you ask me what it is, I do not know, but I can tell you what it seems to me to be.
He replied: If you want to know what it is, I don’t know, but I can share what it seems like to me.
Soc. That seems as good. What does it seem?
Soc. That seems good. What does it seem like?
Her. A drunken brawl, in my poor judgment, is annoyance caused to people over wine.
Her. A drunken fight, in my bad judgment, annoys people over wine.
Soc. Are you aware that you at present are annoying us by silence?
Soc. Are you aware that right now your silence is annoying us?
Her. What, whilst you are talking?
Her. What, while you're chatting?
Soc. No, when we pause a while.
Soc. No, when we take a moment to think.
Her. Then you have not observed that, as to any interval between your talk, a man would find it hard to insert a hair, much more one grain of sense.
Her. Then you haven't noticed that, during any pause in your conversation, a man would find it difficult to fit in a hair, let alone a single bit of sense.
Then Socrates: O Callias, to the rescue! help a man severely handled by his cross-examiner.
Then Socrates: Oh Callias, come to the rescue! Help a man who's being badly treated by his cross-examiner.
Call. With all my heart (and as he spoke he faced Hermogenes). Why, when the flute is talking, we are as silent as the grave.
Call. With all my heart (and as he spoke, he looked at Hermogenes). Why, when the flute is playing, we are as quiet as the grave.
Her. What, would you have me imitate Nicostratus (1) the actor, reciting his tetrameters (2) to the music of the fife? Must I discourse to you in answer to the flute?
Her. What, do you want me to imitate Nicostratus (1) the actor, reciting his tetrameters (2) to the sound of the fife? Should I talk to you in response to the flute?
(1) See Cobet, "Pros. Xen." p. 53; and cf. Diog. Laert. iv. 3, 4; Polyaen. vi. 10; "Hell." IV. viii. 18. (2) See Aristoph. "Clouds," where Socrates is giving Strepsiades a lesson in "measures," 639-646: {poteron to trimetron e to tetrametron}.
(1) See Cobet, "Pros. Xen." p. 53; and cf. Diog. Laert. iv. 3, 4; Polyaen. vi. 10; "Hell." IV. viii. 18. (2) See Aristoph. "Clouds," where Socrates is teaching Strepsiades a lesson in "measures," 639-646: {poteron to trimetron e to tetrametron}.
Then Socrates: By all that's holy, I wish you would, Hermogenes. How delightful it would be. Just as a song sounds sweeter in concert with the flute, so would your talk be more mellifluous attuned to its soft pipings; and particularly if you would use gesticulation like the flute-girl, to suit the tenor of your speech.
Then Socrates: Honestly, I really wish you would, Hermogenes. It would be so enjoyable. Just like a song sounds nicer when played with a flute, your words would flow more beautifully if they were in harmony with its gentle notes; especially if you used gestures like the flute player to match the tone of your speech.
Here Callias demanded: And when our friend (Antisthenes) essays to cross-examine people (3) at a banquet, what kind of piping (4) should he have?
Here Callias asked: And when our friend (Antisthenes) tries to cross-examine people at a banquet, what kind of music should he have?
(3) Or, "a poor body," in reference to the elentic onslaught made on himself by Antisthenes above. (4) {to aulema}, a composition for reed instruments, "music for the flute." Cf. Aristoph. "Frogs," 1302.
(3) Or, "a poor body," referring to the harsh attack made on him by Antisthenes above. (4) {to aulema}, a piece for reed instruments, "music for the flute." Cf. Aristoph. "Frogs," 1302.
Ant. The person in the witness-box would best be suited with a serpent-hissing theme. (5)
Ant. The person in the witness stand would be better off with a snake-hissing theme. (5)
(5) Or, "motif on a scrannel pipe." See L. & S. s.v. {puthaules}. Cf. Poll. iv. 81, {puthikon aulema}, an air ({nomos}) played on the {puthois aulos}, expressing the battle between Apollo and the Python, the hiss of which was imitated.
(5) Or, "theme on a thin pipe." See L. & S. s.v. {puthaules}. Cf. Poll. iv. 81, {puthikon aulema}, a tune ({nomos}) played on the {puthois aulos}, representing the battle between Apollo and the Python, whose hiss was mimicked.
Thus the stream of talk flowed on; until the Syracusan, who was painfully aware that while the company amused themselves, his "exhibition" was neglected, turned, in a fit of jealous spleen, at last on Socrates. (6)
Thus the conversation continued; until the Syracusan, who was painfully aware that while everyone else was having fun, his "presentation" was being ignored, finally turned, in a fit of jealous anger, to Socrates. (6)
(6) "The Syracusan is 'civil as an orange, and of that jealous complexion.'"
(6) "The guy from Syracuse is as polite as an orange, but he's got a jealous streak."
The Syr. They call you Socrates. Are you that person commonly nicknamed the thinker? (7)
The Syr. They call you Socrates. Are you the person known as the thinker? (7)
(7) Apparently he has been to see the "Clouds" (exhibited first in 423 B.C.), and has conceived certain ideas concerning Socrates, "a wise man, who speculated about the heaven above, and searched into the earth beneath, and made the worse appear the better cause." Plat. "Apol." 18 B, 19 C. "Clouds," 101, 360, {khair o presbuta ... ton nun meteorosophiston... ta te meteora phrontistes}.
(7) It seems he has gone to see the "Clouds" (first shown in 423 B.C.) and has come up with some thoughts about Socrates, "a wise man who pondered the heavens above, explored the earth below, and made the worse argument seem like the better one." Plat. "Apol." 18 B, 19 C. "Clouds," 101, 360, {khair o presbuta ... ton nun meteorosophiston... ta te meteora phrontistes}.
Soc. Which surely is a better fate than to be called a thoughtless person?
Soc. Which is definitely a better outcome than being labeled as thoughtless?
The Syr. Perhaps, if you were not thought to split your brains on things above us—transcendental stuff. (8)
The Syr. Maybe, if people didn't think you were overthinking things—higher-level concepts. (8)
(8) Or, "if only you were held to be less 'meteoric,' less head-in- airy in your speculations."
(8) Or, "if only you were seen as less 'meteoric,' less dreamy in your ideas."
Soc. And is there anything more transcendental than the gods?
Soc. Is there anything more amazing than the gods?
The Syr. By heaven! no, it is not the gods above us whom you care for, but for matters void of use and valueless. (9)
The Syr. By heaven! No, it's not the gods above us that you care about, but rather things that are useless and worthless. (9)
(9) It is impossible to give the play on words. The Syr. {anophelestaton}. Soc. {ano... ophelousin}. Schenkl after Madvig emend.: {ton ano en nephelais onton} = "but for things in the clouds above."
(9) It’s impossible to convey the pun. The Syr. {anophelestaton}. Soc. {ano... ophelousin}. Schenkl after Madvig edits: {ton ano en nephelais onton} = "but for things in the clouds above."
Soc. It seems, then, by your showing I do care for them. How value less the gods, not more, if being above us they make the void of use to send us rain, and cause their light to shine on us? And now, sir, if you do not like this frigid (10) argument, why do you cause me trouble? The fault is yours. (11)
Soc. It seems that, based on what you’ve said, I actually do care for them. How insignificant are the gods, not more, if they’re above us yet make it pointless to send us rain and let their light shine on us? And now, sir, if you don’t like this cold argument, why are you bothering me? The problem is yours.
(10) Cf. "Cyrop." VIII. iv. 22, 23. (11) {pho parekhousin... pragmata moi parekhon}. Lit. "cause light ... causing me trouble."
(10) Cf. "Cyrop." VIII. iv. 22, 23. (11) {pho parekhousin... pragmata moi parekhon}. Lit. "cause light ... causing me trouble."
Well, let that be (the other answered); answer me one question: How many fleas' feet distance is it, pray, from you to me? (12) They say you measure them by geometric scale.
Well, let that be, the other replied; answer me this: How many flea's feet away are you from me? They say you measure that with a geometric scale.
(12) See Aristoph. "Clouds," 144 foll.:
(12) See Aristoph. "Clouds," 144 foll.:
{aneret' arti Khairephonta Sokrates psullan oposous alloito tous autes podas dakousa gar...}
{aneret' arti Khairephonta Sokrates psullan oposous alloito tous autes podas dakousa gar...}
Cf. Lucian, ii. "Prom. in Verb. 6," and "Hudibras, the Second Part of," canto iii.:
Cf. Lucian, ii. "Prom. in Verb. 6," and "Hudibras, the Second Part of," canto iii.:
How many scores a Flea will jump Of his own length from Head to Rump Which Socrates and Chaerephon In vain essayed so long agon.
How many times a flea will jump its own length from head to tail, which Socrates and Chaerephon tried to figure out so long ago.
But here Antisthenes, appealing to Philippus, interposed: You are a man full of comparisons. (13) Does not this worthy person strike you as somewhat like a bully seeking to pick a quarrel? (14)
But here Antisthenes, addressing Philippus, intervened: You really love making comparisons. (13) Don't you think this respectable person comes off a bit like a bully trying to start a fight? (14)
(13) Like Biron, "L. L. L." v. 2. 854. Or, "you are a clever caricaturist." See Plat. "Symp." 215 A; Hug, "Enleitung," xiv.; Aristoph. "Birds," 804 (Frere, p. 173); "Wasps," 1309. (14) Aristoph. "Frogs," 857, "For it ill beseems illustrious bards to scold like market-women." (Frere, p. 269); "Knights," 1410, "to bully"; "Eccles." 142:
(13) Like Biron, "L. L. L." v. 2. 854. Or, "you are a talented caricaturist." See Plat. "Symp." 215 A; Hug, "Enleitung," xiv.; Aristoph. "Birds," 804 (Frere, p. 173); "Wasps," 1309. (14) Aristoph. "Frogs," 857, "For it doesn't suit great poets to scold like fishwives." (Frere, p. 269); "Knights," 1410, "to bully"; "Eccles." 142:
{kai loidorountai g' osper empepokotes, kai ton paroinount' ekpherous' oi toxotai.}
{kai loidorountai g' osper empepokotes, kai ton paroinount' ekpherous' oi toxotai.}
Yes (replied the jester), he has a striking likeness to that person and a heap of others. He bristles with metaphors.
Yes (replied the jester), he looks a lot like that guy and a bunch of others. He's full of metaphors.
Soc. For all that, do not you be too eager to draw comparisons at his expense, or you will find yourself the image of a scold and brawler. (15)
Soc. Even so, don’t be too quick to make comparisons that put him down, or you’ll just come off as a nag and a troublemaker. (15)
(15) Or, "a striking person."
Or, "an impressive person."
Phil. But what if I compare him to all the primest creatures of the world, to beauty's nonpareils, (16) to nature's best—I might be justly likened to a flatterer but not a brawler. (17)
Phil. But what if I compare him to all the best beings in the world, to the most beautiful ones, to nature's finest—I might be fairly seen as a flatterer but not a fighter.
(16) Lit. "compare him to those in all things beauteous and the best." With {tois pasi kalois kai tois beltistois} cf. Thuc. v. 28, {oi 'Argeioi arista eskhon tois pasi}, "The Argives were in excellent condition in all respects." As to Philippus's back-handed compliment to the showman, it reminds one of Peter Quince's commendation of Bottom: "Yea and the best person too; and he is a very paramour for a sweet voice." (17) It is not easy to keep pace with the merryman's jests; but if I follow his humour, he says to Socrates: "If the cap is to fit, you must liken me to one who quits 'assault and battery' for 'compliments (sotto voce, "lies") and flattery.'"
(16) Lit. "compare him to those who are all things beautiful and the best." With {tois pasi kalois kai tois beltistois} cf. Thuc. v. 28, {oi 'Argeioi arista eskhon tois pasi}, "The Argives were in excellent condition in all respects." Regarding Philippus's back-handed compliment to the showman, it reminds one of Peter Quince's praise of Bottom: "Yeah, and the best person too; and he has a very sweet voice." (17) It's not easy to keep up with the merry man's jokes; but if I follow his humor, he says to Socrates: "If the cap fits, you should compare me to someone who switches from 'assault and battery' to 'compliments' (whispering, 'lies') and flattery."
Soc. Why now, you are like a person apt to pick a quarrel, since you imply they are all his betters. (18)
Soc. It seems like you’re just looking for a fight, since you suggest they’re all better than him. (18)
(18) When Socrates says {ei pant' autou beltio phes einai, k.t.l.}, the sense seems to be: "No, if you say that all these prime creatures are better than he is, you are an abusive person still."
(18) When Socrates says {ei pant' autou beltio phes einai, k.t.l.}, the meaning seems to be: "No, if you claim that all these top beings are better than he is, you are still being disrespectful."
Phil. What, would you have me then compare him to worse villains?
Phil. What, do you want me to compare him to even worse villains?
Soc. No, not even to worse villains.
Soc. No, not even to worse villains.
Phil. What, then, to nothing, and to nobody?
Phil. What, then, to nothing, and to nobody?
Soc. To nought in aught. Let him remain his simple self—
Soc. To nothing in anything. Let him stay his simple self—
Phil. Incomparable. But if my tongue is not to wag, whatever shall I do to earn my dinner?
Phil. Unique. But if I can’t talk, how am I supposed to earn my meal?
Soc. Why, that you shall quite easily, if with your wagging tongue you do not try to utter things unutterable.
Soc. Well, you can definitely do that, as long as you don’t use your busy tongue to say things that can’t be said.
Here was a pretty quarrel over wine soon kindled and soon burnt.
Here was a nice argument over wine that quickly flared up and then faded away.
VII
VII
But on the instant those who had not assisted in the fray gave tongue, the one part urging the jester to proceed with his comparisons, and the other part dissuading.
But as soon as those who hadn't taken part in the fight began to speak, some urged the jester to continue with his comparisons, while others tried to convince him not to.
The voice of Socrates was heard above the tumult: Since we are all so eager to be heard at once, what fitter time than now to sing a song, in chorus.
The voice of Socrates rose above the chaos: Since we're all so eager to be heard at the same time, what better moment than now to sing a song together?
And suiting the action to the words, he commenced a stave.
And matching his words with action, he started a song.
The song was barely finished, when a potter's wheel was brought in, on which the dancing-girl was to perform more wonders.
The song had just ended when a potter's wheel was brought in for the dancing girl to work her magic.
At this point Socrates addressed the man of Syracuse: It seems I am likely to deserve the title which you gave me of a thinker in good earnest. Just now I am speculating by what means your boy and girl may pass a happy time, and we spectators still derive the greatest pleasure from beholding them; and this, I take it, is precisely what you would yourself most wish. Now I maintain, that throwing somersaults in and out of swords is a display of danger uncongenial to a banquet. And as for writing and reading on a wheel that all the while keeps whirling, I do not deny the wonder of it, but what pleasure such a marvel can present, I cannot for the life of me discover. Nor do I see how it is a whit more charming to watch these fair young people twisting about their bodies and imitating wheels than to behold them peacefully reposing.
At this point, Socrates turned to the man from Syracuse: It looks like I'm really earning the title you gave me of a serious thinker. Right now, I'm thinking about how your boy and girl can have a good time, while we, the audience, still find the most joy in watching them; and I believe that's exactly what you would want, too. I assert that doing somersaults in and out of swords is a dangerous show that has no place at a banquet. And as for writing and reading on a wheel that keeps spinning, I don't deny it's impressive, but I can't figure out what pleasure such a feat could possibly bring. I also don't see how watching these young people twist their bodies and mimic wheels is any more delightful than simply watching them relax peacefully.
We need not fare far afield to light on marvels, if that is our object. All about us here is full of marvel; we can begin at once by wondering, why it is the candle gives a light by dint of its bright flame, while side by side with it the bright bronze vessel gives no light, but shows within itself those other objects mirrored. (1) Or, how is it that oil, being moist and liquid, keeps that flame ablaze, but water, just because it is liquid, quenches fire. But no more do these same marvels tend to promote the object of the wine-cup. (2)
We don’t need to look very far to find wonders if that’s what we’re after. Everything around us is full of marvel; we can start right away by questioning why the candle gives off light through its bright flame, while the shiny bronze vessel next to it doesn’t emit any light but reflects other objects inside it. (1) Or, how is it that oil, which is wet and liquid, fuels the flame, yet water, just because it’s liquid, puts out the fire? But these same wonders also don’t really serve the purpose of the wine cup. (2)
(1) Cf. "Mem." IV. vii. 7. Socrates' criticism of Anaxagoras' theory with regard to the sun. (2) Lit. "work to the same end as wine."
(1) Cf. "Mem." IV. vii. 7. Socrates' critique of Anaxagoras' theory about the sun. (2) Literally, "acts toward the same goal as wine."
But now, supposing your young people yonder were to tread a measure to the flute, some pantomime in dance, like those which the Graces and the Hours with the Nymphs are made to tread in pictures, (3) I think they would spend a far more happy time themselves, and our banquet would at once assume a grace and charm unlooked for.
But now, let’s say your young people over there were to dance to the flute, doing some kind of dance like those that the Graces and the Hours perform alongside the Nymphs in paintings, (3) I think they would have a much happier time, and our feast would instantly take on an unexpected grace and charm.
(3) Cf. Plat. "Laws," vii. 815 C; Hor. "Carm." i. 4. 6:
(3) Cf. Plat. "Laws," vii. 815 C; Hor. "Carm." i. 4. 6:
iunctaeque Nymphis Gratiae decentes alterno terram quatiunt pede.
iunctaeque Nymphs Graces graceful shake the ground with alternating feet.
The Graces and the Nymphs, together knit, With rhythmic feet the meadow beat (Conington).
The Graces and the Nymphs, together intertwined, With rhythmic feet danced across the meadow.
Ib. iv. 7. 5.
Ib. iv. 7. 5.
The Syracusan caught the notion readily.
The Syracusan quickly understood the idea.
By all that's holy, Socrates (he cried), a capital suggestion, and for my part, I warrant you, I will put a piece upon the stage, which will delight you, one and all.
By all that's sacred, Socrates (he exclaimed), that's a great idea, and for my part, I promise you, I will put on a performance that will entertain you all.
VIII
VIII
With these words the Syracusan made his exit, bent on organising his performance. (1) As soon as he was gone, Socrates once more essayed a novel argument. (2) He thus addressed them:
With these words, the Syracusan left, determined to organize his performance. (1) Once he was gone, Socrates attempted a new argument again. (2) He addressed them:
(1) {sunekroteito}, "on the composition of his piece." Al. "amidst a round of plaudits." (2) "Struck the keynote of a novel theme." Cf. Plat. "Symp." 177 E.
(1) {sunekroteito}, "about the creation of his work." Al. "during a round of applause." (2) "Set the tone for a new idea." Cf. Plat. "Symp." 177 E.
It were but reasonable, sirs, on our part not to ignore the mighty power here present, (3) a divinity in point of age coequal with the everlasting gods, yet in outward form the youngest, (4) who in magnitude embraces all things, and yet his shrine is planted in the soul of man. Love (5) is his name! and least of all should we forget him who are one and all votaries of this god. (6) For myself I cannot name the time at which I have not been in love with some one. (7) And Charmides here has, to my knowledge, captivated many a lover, while his own soul has gone out in longing for the love of not a few himself. (8) So it is with Critobulus also; the beloved of yesterday is become the lover of to-day. Ay, and Niceratus, as I am told, adores his wife, and is by her adored. (9) As to Hermogenes, which of us needs to be told (10) that the soul of this fond lover is consumed with passion for a fair ideal—call it by what name you will—the spirit blent of nobleness and beauty. (11) See you not what chaste severity dwells on his brow; (12) how tranquil his gaze; (13) how moderate his words; how gentle his intonation; now radiant his whole character. And if he enjoys the friendship of the most holy gods, he keeps a place in his regard for us poor mortals. But how is it that you alone, Antisthenes, you misanthrope, love nobody?
It’s only reasonable, gentlemen, that we acknowledge the powerful force present here, (3) a divinity as ancient as the eternal gods, yet outwardly the youngest, (4) who encompasses everything in size, while his shrine resides in the hearts of humans. Love (5) is his name! And we should especially remember him, as we are all worshippers of this god. (6) As for me, I can't remember a time when I haven’t loved someone. (7) And Charmides here has, to my knowledge, captured many hearts, while he himself longs for the affection of quite a few. (8) The same goes for Critobulus; yesterday’s beloved has become today’s lover. Yes, and I’ve heard that Niceratus adores his wife, and she adores him in return. (9) As for Hermogenes, who among us needs to be reminded (10) that this devoted lover’s soul is consumed with a desire for an ideal beauty—whatever one may call it—combining nobility and attractiveness. (11) Don’t you see the pure seriousness on his brow; (12) how calm his eyes are; (13) how measured his words; how gentle his tone; how radiant his entire demeanor is? And although he enjoys the friendship of the most revered gods, he still makes room in his heart for us mere mortals. But how is it, Antisthenes, that you alone, you who despise humanity, love no one?
(3) Cf. Shelley, "Hymn to Intellectual Beauty":
(3) See Shelley, "Hymn to Intellectual Beauty":
The awful shadow of some unseen Power Floats, though unseen, among us....
The terrible shadow of some hidden force drifts, even though it's invisible, among us....
(4) Reading with L. D. after Blomfield (Aesch. "Ag." p. 304), {idrumenou}, or if as vulg. {isoumenou}, transl. "but in soul is fashioned like to mortal man." (5) "Eros." (6) Or, "who are each and all of us members of his band." For {thiasotai} cf. Aristot. "Eth. N." viii. 9. 5; Aristoph. "Frogs," 327. (7) Cf. Plat. "Symp." 177 D: "No one will vote against you, Erysimachus, said Socrates; on the only subject ({ta erotika}) of which I profess to have any knowledge, I certainly cannot refuse to speak, nor, I presume, Agathon and Pasuanias; and there can be no doubt of Arisophanes, who is the constant servant of Dionysus and Aphrodite; nor will any one disagree of those I see around me" (Jowett). (8) Or, "has had many a passionate admirer, and been enamoured of more than one true love himself." See Plat. "Charm.," ad in. (9) For Love and Love-for-Love, {eros} and {anteros}, see Plat. "Phaedr." 255 D. Cf. Aristot. "Eth. N." ix. 1. (10) Lit. "which of us but knows his soul is melting away with passion." Cf. Theocr. xiv. 26. (11) Lit. "beautiful and gentle manhood." (12) Lit. "how serious are his brows." (13) The phrases somehow remind one of Sappho's famous ode:
(4) Reading with L. D. after Blomfield (Aesch. "Ag." p. 304), {idrumenou}, or if as commonly used {isoumenou}, translates to "but in soul is shaped like a mortal man." (5) "Eros." (6) Or, "who are all of us members of his group." For {thiasotai} see Aristot. "Eth. N." viii. 9. 5; Aristoph. "Frogs," 327. (7) See Plat. "Symp." 177 D: "No one will be against you, Erysimachus, said Socrates; on the only topic ({ta erotika}) I claim to know something about, I surely can't refuse to talk, nor, I assume, can Agathon and Pasuanias; and there’s no doubt about Aristophanes, who is a loyal servant of Dionysus and Aphrodite; nor will anyone disagree with those I see around me" (Jowett). (8) Or, "has had many passionate admirers, and he himself has fallen in love more than once." See Plat. "Charm.," ad in. (9) For Love and Love-for-Love, {eros} and {anteros}, see Plat. "Phaedr." 255 D. See also Aristot. "Eth. N." ix. 1. (10) Literally, "which of us doesn’t know his soul is melting with passion." See Theocr. xiv. 26. (11) Literally, "beautiful and gentle manhood." (12) Literally, "how serious are his brows." (13) The phrases somehow remind one of Sappho's famous ode:
{phainetai moi kenos isos theoisin emmen oner, ostis enantios toi izanei, kai plasion adu phoneusas upakouei kai gelosas imeroen}.
{phainetai moi kenos isos theoisin emmen oner, ostis enantios toi izanei, kai plasion adu phoneusas upakouei kai gelosas imeroen}.
But there we must stop. Hermogenes is a sort of Sir Percivale, "such a courtesy spake thro' the limbs and in the voice."
But there we must stop. Hermogenes is kind of like Sir Percivale, "his courtesy shines through his movements and in his voice."
Nay, so help me Heaven! (he replied), but I do love most desperately yourself, O Socrates!
Nay, I swear to God! (he replied), but I do love you most desperately, O Socrates!
Whereat Socrates, still carrying on the jest, with a coy, coquettish air, (14) replied: Yes; only please do not bother me at present. I have other things to do, you see.
Whereupon Socrates, continuing the joke, with a playful, flirtatious tone, (14) replied: Yes; just please don’t disturb me right now. I have other things to take care of, you know.
(14) Al. "like a true coquet." Cf. Plat. "Phaedr." 228 C.
(14) Al. "like a true flirt." Cf. Plat. "Phaedr." 228 C.
Antisthenes replied: How absolutely true to your own character, arch go-between! (15) It is always either your familiar oracle won't suffer you, that's your pretext, and so you can't converse with me; or you are bent upon something or somebody else.
Antisthenes replied: How completely true to your character, sly go-between! (15) It's always that your usual source won't allow you, that's your excuse, so you can't talk to me; or you're focused on something or someone else.
(15) See "Mem." III. xi. 14.
(15) See "Mem." III. xi. 14.
Then Socrates: For Heaven's sake, don't carbonado (16) me, Antisthenes, that's all. Any other savagery on your part I can stand, and will stand, as a lover should. However (he added), the less we say about your love the better, since it is clearly an attachment not to my soul, but to my lovely person.
Then Socrates: For heaven's sake, don't roast me, Antisthenes, that's all. I can handle and will endure any other craziness from you, as a lover should. However, the less we say about your affection, the better, since it's obvious that your attachment is not to my soul, but to my good looks.
(16) Or, "tear and scratch me."
(16) Or, "rip me apart and scratch me."
And then, turning to Callias: And that you, Callias, do love Autolycus, this whole city knows and half the world besides, (17) if I am not mistaken; and the reason is that you are both sons of famous fathers, and yourselves illustrious. For my part I have ever admired your nature, but now much more so, when I see that you are in love with one who does not wanton in luxury or languish in effeminacy, (18) but who displays to all his strength, his hardihood, his courage, and sobriety of soul. To be enamoured of such qualities as these is a proof itself of a true lover's nature.
And then, turning to Callias: And everyone in this city knows, and even half the world knows, that you, Callias, love Autolycus, if I'm not mistaken. The reason is that you're both the sons of famous fathers and distinguished in your own right. Personally, I’ve always admired your character, but I admire it even more now, especially since you're in love with someone who doesn’t indulge in luxury or whine in weakness, but instead shows his strength, bravery, courage, and soundness of mind to everyone. Being attracted to qualities like these is proof of what a true lover really is.
(17) Lit. "many a foreign visitor likewise." (18) See the Attic type of character, as drawn by Pericles, Thuc. ii. 40.
(17) Lit. "many foreign visitors also." (18) See the Attic type of character, as described by Pericles, Thuc. ii. 40.
Whether indeed Aphrodite be one or twain (19) in personality, the heavenly and the earthly, I cannot tell, for Zeus, who is one and indivisible, bears many titles. (20) But this thing I know, that these twain have separate altars, shrines, and sacrifices, (21) as befits their nature—she that is earthly, of a lighter and a laxer sort; she that is heavenly, purer and holier in type. And you may well conjecture, it is the earthly goddess, the common Aphrodite, who sends forth the bodily loves; while from her that is named of heaven, Ourania, proceed those loves which feed upon the soul, on friendship and on noble deeds. It is by this latter, Callias, that you are held in bonds, if I mistake not, Love divine. (22) This I infer as well from the fair and noble character of your friend, as from the fact that you invite his father to share your life and intercourse. (23) Since no part of these is hidden from the father by the fair and noble lover.
Whether Aphrodite is one or two in personality, the heavenly and the earthly, I can’t say, since Zeus, who is one and indivisible, has many titles. But I do know that these two have separate altars, shrines, and sacrifices, as suits their natures—she who is earthly, lighter and more relaxed; she who is heavenly, purer and more sacred. It's clear that the earthly goddess, the common Aphrodite, is the one who inspires physical love; while from the heavenly one, Ourania, come loves that nurture the soul, friendships, and noble actions. It’s by this latter, Callias, that you find yourself enchanted, if I’m not mistaken, Divine Love. I gather this not only from the fine and noble character of your friend but also from the fact that you invite his father to be part of your life and companionship. Since nothing in this is hidden from the father by the fair and noble lover.
(19) For Aphrodite Ourania and Pandemos see Plat. "Symp." 180. (20) Lit. "that is believed to be the same." See Cic. "De N. D." iii. 16. Cf. Aesch. "Prom." 210 (of Themis and Gaia), {pollon onomaton morphe mia}. (21) e.g. to Aphrodite Pandemos a white goat, {mekas leuke}, but to Aphrodite Ourania a heifer, and {thusiai nephaliai}, offerings without wine, i.e. of water, milk, and honey. Schol. to Soph. "Oed. Col." 100; Lucian, lxvii. "Dial. Mer." 7. 1. (22) Lit. "by Eros." (23) Cf. Plat. "Prot." 318 A; Aristoph. "Thesmoph." 21, "learned conversazioni."
(19) For Aphrodite Ourania and Pandemos, see Plato, "Symposium," 180. (20) Literally, "that is believed to be the same." See Cicero, "De Natura Deorum," iii. 16. Compare Aeschylus, "Prometheus," 210 (about Themis and Gaia), {many names one form}. (21) For example, a white goat, {mekas leuke}, is offered to Aphrodite Pandemos, but a heifer is offered to Aphrodite Ourania, along with {thusiai nephaliai}, offerings that do not include wine, meaning they consist of water, milk, and honey. Scholium to Sophocles, "Oedipus at Colonus," 100; Lucian, lxvii. "Dialogue of Mer." 7.1. (22) Literally, "by Eros." (23) Compare Plato, "Protagoras," 318 A; Aristophanes, "Thesmophoriazusae," 21, "learned conversations."
Hermogenes broke in: By Hera, Socrates, I much admire you for many things, and now to see how in the act of gratifying Callias you are training him in duty and true excellence. (24)
Hermogenes interrupted: By Hera, Socrates, I really admire you for so many reasons, and now to see how, while pleasing Callias, you are teaching him about responsibility and genuine excellence. (24)
(24) Lit. "teaching him what sort of man he ought to be." This, as we know, is the very heart and essence of the Socratic (= {XS}) method. See "Mem." I. ii. 3.
(24) Lit. "teaching him what kind of person he should be." This, as we know, is the very heart and essence of the Socratic (= {XS}) method. See "Mem." I. ii. 3.
Why, yes (he said), if only that his cup of happiness may overflow, I wish to testify to him how far the love of soul is better than the love of body.
Why, yes (he said), if only his cup of happiness could overflow, I want to show him how much better the love of the soul is than the love of the body.
Without friendship, (25) as we full well know, there is no society of any worth. And this friendship, what is it? On the part of those whose admiration (26) is bestowed upon the inner disposition, it is well named a sweet and voluntary compulsion. But among those whose desire (26) is for the body, there are not a few who blame, nay hate, the ways of their beloved ones. And even where attachment (26) clings to both, (27) even so the bloom of beauty after all does quickly reach its prime; the flower withers, and when that fails, the affection which was based upon it must also wither up and perish. But the soul, with every step she makes in her onward course towards deeper wisdom, grows ever worthier of love.
Without friendship, (25) as we all know, there is no meaningful society. So what is friendship? For those who admire someone's inner qualities, it’s truly a sweet and voluntary bond. However, among those who are attracted to physical appearance, there are many who criticize, even despise, the behavior of their loved ones. And even when attachment (26) exists for both, (27) the beauty inevitably peaks and then quickly fades; the flower wilts, and when that happens, the affection built on it also diminishes and dies. But the soul, with each step taken towards greater wisdom, becomes increasingly worthy of love.
(25) Lit. "That without love no intercourse is worth regarding, we all know." (26) N.B.—{agamenon, epithumounton, sterxosi}. Here, as often, the author seems to have studied the {orthoepeia} of Prodicus. See "Mem." II. i. 24. (27) i.e. "body and character."
(25) Literally, "We all know that without love, no relationship is worth considering." (26) Note: {agamenon, epithumounton, sterxosi}. Here, as frequently, the author appears to have explored the {orthoepeia} of Prodicus. See "Mem." II. i. 24. (27) In other words, "physical appearance and personality."
Ay, and in the enjoyment of external beauty a sort of surfeit is engendered. Just as the eater's appetite palls through repletion with regard to meats, (28) so will the feelings of a lover towards his idol. But the soul's attachment, owing to its purity, knows no satiety. (29) Yet not therefore, as a man might fondly deem, has it less of the character of loveliness. (30) But very clearly herein is our prayer fulfilled, in which we beg the goddess to grant us words and deeds that bear the impress of her own true loveliness. (31)
Yes, and with the enjoyment of outer beauty, a sort of excess can develop. Just as a person's appetite for food diminishes with too much indulgence, so too can a lover's feelings for their beloved fade. However, the soul's connection, due to its purity, knows no limits. Yet, this doesn’t mean, as someone might naively think, that it lacks beauty. Clearly, our prayer is answered here, as we ask the goddess to give us words and actions that reflect her true beauty.
(28) Cf. "Mem." III. xi. 13. (29) Lit. "is more insatiate." Cf. Charles Wesley's hymn:
(28) Cf. "Mem." III. xi. 13. (29) Lit. "is more insatiable." Cf. Charles Wesley's hymn:
O Love Divine, how sweet Thou art! When shall I find my willing heart All taken up by Thee?
O Divine Love, how sweet You are! When will I find my willing heart completely devoted to You?
(30) Lit. "is she, the soul, more separate from Aphrodite." (31) Or, "stamped with the image of Aphrodite." Zeune cf. Lucr. i. 24, addressing Venus, "te sociam studeo scribendis versibus esse," "I would have thee for a helpmate in writing the verses..."; and below, 28, "quo magis aeternum da dictis, diva, leporem," "Wherefore all the more, O lady, lend my lays an ever-living charm" (H. A. J. Munro).
(30) Literally, "is she, the soul, more separate from Aphrodite." (31) Or, "marked with the image of Aphrodite." Zeune cf. Lucr. i. 24, addressing Venus, "I want you to be my partner in writing the verses..."; and below, 28, "Therefore all the more, O goddess, grant my words a timeless charm" (H. A. J. Munro).
That a soul whose bloom is visible alike in beauty of external form, free and unfettered, and an inner disposition, bashful, generous; a spirit (32) at once imperial and affable, (33) born to rule among its fellows—that such a being will, of course, admire and fondly cling to his beloved, is a thesis which needs no further argument on my part. Rather I will essay to teach you, how it is natural that this same type of lover should in turn be loved by his soul's idol. (34)
That a soul whose beauty shines through both its outward appearance and its free, unfettered nature, along with an inner disposition that's shy yet generous; a spirit that is both majestic and friendly, born to lead among its peers—that such a person will undoubtedly admire and cherish their beloved is something I don't need to argue further. Instead, I will try to show you how it is only natural that this kind of lover is also loved in return by the idol of their heart.
(32) Cf. Plat. "Phaedr." 252 E. (33) The epithet {philophron} occurs "Mem." III. i. 6, of a general; ib. III. v. 3 (according to the vulg. reading), of the Athenians. (34) Or, "the boy whom he cherishes."
(32) Cf. Plat. "Phaedr." 252 E. (33) The term {philophron} appears in "Mem." III. i. 6, referring to a general; ib. III. v. 3 (according to the common reading), referring to the Athenians. (34) Or, "the boy he cares for."
How, in the first place, is it possible for him to hate a lover who, he knows, regards him as both beautiful and good? (35) and, in the next place, one who, it is clear, is far more anxious to promote the fair estate of him he loves (36) than to indulge his selfish joys? and above all, when he has faith and trust that neither dereliction, (37) nor loss of beauty through sickness, nor aught else, will diminish their affection.
How is it possible for him to hate a lover who he knows sees him as both beautiful and good? (35) And who, clearly, is much more concerned about ensuring the well-being of the one he loves (36) than about indulging his own selfish pleasures? And above all, when he believes that neither abandonment (37), nor losing his beauty because of illness, nor anything else will lessen their love.
(35) Or, "perfection." (36) Lit. "the boy." (37) Reading {en para ti poiese}. Al. "come what come may," lit. "no alteration"; or if reading {parebese} transl. "although his May of youth should pass, and sickness should mar his features, the tie of friendship will not be weakened."
(35) Or, "perfection." (36) Literally, "the boy." (37) Reading {en para ti poiese}. Alternatively, "whatever happens," literally, "no change"; or if reading {parebese}, translated as "even if the spring of his youth fades and illness distorts his features, the bond of friendship will remain strong."
If, then, they own a mutual devotion, (38) how can it but be, they will take delight in gazing each into the other's eyes, hold kindly converse, trust and be trusted, have forethought for each other, in success rejoice together, in misfortune share their troubles; and so long as health endures make merry cheer, day in day out; or if either of them should fall on sickness, then will their intercourse be yet more constant; and if they cared for one another face to face, much more will they care when parted. (39) Are not all these the outward tokens of true loveliness? (40) In the exercise of such sweet offices, at any rate, they show their passion for holy friendship's state, and prove its bliss, continuously pacing life's path from youth to eld.
If they share a mutual devotion, how can it be any different? They will enjoy looking into each other’s eyes, have warm conversations, trust each other, and be trustworthy, think ahead for one another, rejoice in each other's successes, and share their troubles in tough times. As long as they are healthy, they will celebrate and have fun together every day; and if one of them falls ill, their connection will become even stronger. If they care deeply for each other in person, they will care even more when they are apart. Aren’t all these the signs of true beauty? In practicing such kind gestures, they express their love for the bond of true friendship and demonstrate its joy, journeying together through life from youth to old age.
(38) For beauty of style (in the original) Zeune cf. "Mem." II. vi. 28 foll.; III. xi. 10. (39) "Albeit absent from one another in the body, they are more present in the soul." Cf. Virg. "Aen." iv. 83, "illum absens absentem auditque videtque." (40) Or, "bear the stamp of Aphrodite."
(38) For beauty of style (in the original) Zeune see "Mem." II. vi. 28 and following; III. xi. 10. (39) "Even though they are physically apart, they are more connected in spirit." See Virg. "Aen." iv. 83, "he hears and sees her even when she's not there." (40) Or, "show the mark of Aphrodite."
But the lover who depends upon the body, (41) what of him? First, why should love-for-love be given to such a lover? because, forsooth, he bestows upon himself what he desires, and upon his minion things of dire reproach? or that what he hastens to exact, infallibly must separate that other from his nearest friends?
But what about the lover who relies on the body? First, why should love-for-love be given to such a lover? Because, after all, he gives himself what he wants and to his partner things of great shame? Or is it that what he rushes to demand will definitely drive him away from his closest friends?
(41) Or, "is wholly taken up with." Cf. Plat. "Laws," 831 C.
(41) Or, "is completely focused on." See Plat. "Laws," 831 C.
If it be pleaded that persuasion is his instrument, not violence; is that no reason rather for a deeper loathing? since he who uses violence (42) at any rate declares himself in his true colours as a villain, while the tempter corrupts the soul of him who yields to his persuasions.
If it's argued that persuasion is his tool, not violence; isn't that a reason for even greater disgust? After all, someone who uses violence clearly shows their true self as a villain, whereas the tempter corrupts the soul of those who give in to their persuasion.
(42) Cf. "Hiero," iii. 3; "Cyrop." III. i. 39.
(42) Cf. "Hiero," iii. 3; "Cyrop." III. i. 39.
Ay, and how should he who traffics with his beauty love the purchaser, any more than he who keeps a stall in the market-place and vends to the highest bidder? Love springs not up, I trow, because the one is in his prime, and the other's bloom is withered, because fair is mated with what is not fair, and hot lips are pressed to cold. Between man and woman it is different. There the wife at any rate shares with her husband in their nuptial joys; but here conversely, the one is sober and with unimpassioned eye regards his fellow, who is drunken with the wine of passion. (43)
Yes, and how can someone who sells their beauty genuinely love the buyer, any more than someone who runs a stall in the marketplace and sells to the highest bidder? Love doesn’t arise, I believe, just because one is in their prime while the other has faded, because beauty is paired with what is unattractive, and warm lips are pressed against cold ones. It’s different between a man and a woman. In that case, the wife at least shares in the joys of marriage with her husband; but here, conversely, one person is clear-headed and looks at the other, who is intoxicated with passion. (43)
(43) Lit. "by Aphrodite." Cf. Plat. "Phaedr." 240, "But the lover ... when he is drunk" (Jowett); "Symp." 214 C.
(43) Lit. "by Aphrodite." Cf. Plat. "Phaedr." 240, "But the lover ... when he is drunk" (Jowett); "Symp." 214 C.
Wherefore it is no marvel if, beholding, there springs up in his breast the bitterest contempt and scorn for such a lover. Search and you shall find that nothing harsh was ever yet engendered by attachment based on moral qualities; whilst shameless intercourse, time out of mind, has been the source of countless hateful and unhallowed deeds. (44)
It's no surprise that when he looks at such a lover, he feels deep contempt and scorn. If you look closely, you'll see that no harsh feelings have ever come from love based on moral values; instead, shameless encounters have always led to countless hateful and dishonorable actions. (44)
(44) Zeune cf. Ael. "V. H." viii. 9, re Archelaus king of Macedon, concerning whom Aristotle, "Pol." v. 10. 1311 B: "Many conspiracies have originated in shameful attempts made by sovereigns on the persons of their subjects. Such was the attack of Crataeus upon Archelaus," etc. (Jowett).
(44) Zeune cf. Ael. "V. H." viii. 9, about Archelaus, king of Macedon, regarding whom Aristotle states in "Pol." v. 10. 1311 B: "Many conspiracies have arisen from disgraceful actions taken by rulers against their subjects. One example is the attack by Crataeus on Archelaus," etc. (Jowett).
I have next to show that the society of him whose love is of the body, not the soul, is in itself illiberal. The true educator who trains another in the path of virtue, who will teach us excellence, whether of speech or conduct, (45) may well be honoured, even as Cheiron and Phoenix (46) were honoured by Achilles. But what can he expect, who stretches forth an eager hand to clutch the body, save to be treated (47) as a beggar? That is his character; for ever cringing and petitioning a kiss, or some other soft caress, (48) this sorry suitor dogs his victims.
I have to point out that someone who loves only the body, not the soul, is inherently narrow-minded. The true teacher who guides others on the path of virtue and shows us what excellence means, whether in speech or actions, (45) deserves to be honored, just like Cheiron and Phoenix (46) were honored by Achilles. But what can someone expect when they reach out desperately to grab the body, other than to be treated (47) like a beggar? That's his nature; always groveling and asking for a kiss or some other gentle touch, (48) this pitiful suitor follows his victims around.
(45) Phoenix addresses Achilles, "Il." ix. 443:
(45) Phoenix addresses Achilles, "Il." ix. 443:
{muthon te reter' emenai, prektera te ergon}
{muthon te reter' emenai, prektera te ergon}
Therefore sent he (Peleus) me to thee to teach thee all things, To be both a speaker of words and a doer of deeds (W. Leaf).
Therefore, he (Peleus) sent me to you to teach you everything, to be both a speaker of words and a doer of deeds (W. Leaf).
(46) See "Il." xi. 831; "Hunting," ch. i., as to Cheiron and his scholars, the last of whom is Achilles. (47) {an periepoito}. "He will be scurvily treated." Cf. "Hell." III. i. 19. (48) Cf. "Mem." I. ii. 29.
(46) See "Il." xi. 831; "Hunting," ch. i., regarding Cheiron and his students, the last of whom is Achilles. (47) {an periepoito}. "He will be treated badly." Cf. "Hell." III. i. 19. (48) Cf. "Mem." I. ii. 29.
If my language has a touch of turbulence, (49) do not marvel: partly the wine exalts me; partly that love which ever dwells within my heart of hearts now pricks me forward to use great boldness of speech (50) against his base antagonist. Why, yes indeed, it seems to me that he who fixes his mind on outward beauty is like a man who has taken a farm on a short lease. He shows no anxiety to improve its value; his sole object being to take off it the largest crops he can himself. But he whose heart is set on loyal friendship resembles rather a man who has a farmstead of his own. At any rate, he scours the wide world to find what may enhance the value of his soul's delight. (51)
If my words seem a bit intense, don't be surprised: part of it is the wine boosting my spirits; part of it is the love that always lives within my heart, urging me to speak boldly against his lowly enemy. Yes, it seems to me that someone who focuses solely on outer beauty is like a person who rented a farm for a short term. They have no interest in improving its value; their only goal is to harvest as much as they can for themselves. But someone who values true friendship is more like a person who owns their farm. They actively explore the world to find things that can enhance the joy of their soul.
(49) Or, "wantonness"; and for the apology see Plat. "Phaedr." 238: "I appear to be in a divine fury, for already I am getting into dithyrambics" (Jowett). (50) Lit. "to speak openly against that other sort of love which is its rival." (51) Cf. Michelet, I think, as to the French peasant-farmer regarding his property as "sa femme."
(49) Or, "excessive desire"; and for the explanation see Plat. "Phaedr." 238: "I seem to be in a divine rage, because I'm already starting to get into poetic outbursts" (Jowett). (50) Literally, "to openly criticize that other kind of love which competes with it." (51) Compare with Michelet, I believe, about the French peasant-farmer viewing his property as "his wife."
Again, let us consider the effect upon the object of attachment. Let him but know his beauty is a bond sufficient to enthrall his lover, (52) and what wonder if he be careless of all else and play the wanton. Let him discover, on the contrary, that if he would retain his dear affection he must himself be truly good and beautiful, and it is only natural he should become more studious of virtue. But the greatest blessing which descends on one beset with eager longing to convert the idol of his soul into a good man and true friend is this: necessity is laid upon himself to practise virtue; since how can he hope to make his comrade good, if he himself works wickedness? Is it conceivable that the example he himself presents of what is shameless and incontinent, (53) will serve to make the beloved one temperate and modest?
Again, let’s think about how this affects the person someone is attached to. If he knows his attractiveness is enough to captivate his lover, it's no surprise if he becomes careless and acts recklessly. But if he realizes that to keep his beloved's affection, he has to be truly good and attractive himself, it makes sense that he would pay more attention to being virtuous. The greatest gift for someone consumed with the desire to turn the idol of their heart into a good person and true friend is this: they feel compelled to practice virtue. After all, how can he expect to make his friend a good person if he's doing wrong? Is it possible that the example he sets with his own shameless and uncontrolled behavior will inspire the one he loves to be self-disciplined and modest?
(52) Or, "that by largess of beauty he can enthrall his lover." (53) See Plat. "Symp." 182 A, 192 A.
(52) Or, "that by the generosity of beauty he can captivate his lover." (53) See Plat. "Symp." 182 A, 192 A.
I have a longing, Callias, by mythic argument (54) to show you that not men only, but gods and heroes, set greater store by friendship of the soul than bodily enjoyment. Thus those fair women (55) whom Zeus, enamoured of their outward beauty, wedded, he permitted mortal to remain; but those heroes whose souls he held in admiration, these he raised to immortality. Of whom are Heracles and the Dioscuri, and there are others also named. (56) As I maintain, it was not for his body's sake, but for his soul's, that Ganymede (57) was translated to Olympus, as the story goes, by Zeus. And to this his very name bears witness, for is it not written in Homer?
I have a desire, Callias, to demonstrate through mythic argument (54) that it’s not just men, but also gods and heroes, who value the friendship of the soul more than physical pleasure. Those beautiful women (55) whom Zeus married because he was captivated by their looks were allowed to stay mortal; however, the heroes whose souls he admired, he granted immortality. Among them are Heracles and the Dioscuri, along with others mentioned. (56) I maintain that Ganymede (57) was taken to Olympus by Zeus not for his body, but for his soul, as the story goes. His very name supports this, doesn’t it say so in Homer?
And he gladdens ({ganutai}) to hear his voice. (58)
And he feels happy to hear his voice. (58)
This the poet says, meaning "he is pleased to listen to his words."
This is what the poet means, implying "he is happy to hear his words."
(54) Or, "I have a desire to romance a little," "for your benefit to explain by legendary lore." Cf. Isocr. 120 C; Plat. "Rep." 392 B. (55) e.g. Leda, Danae, Europa, Alcmena, Electra, Latona, Laodamia (Zeune). (56) See "Hunting," i.; "Hell." VI. iii. 6. (57) See Plat. "Phaedr." 255 C; Cic. "Tusc." i. 26, "nec Homerum audio ... divina mallem ad nos," a protest against anthropomorphism in religion. (58) Not in "our" version of Homer, but cf. "Il." xx. 405, {ganutai de te tois 'Enosikhthon}; "Il." xiii. 493, {ganutai d' ara te phrena poimen}.
(54) Or, "I feel like having a little romance," "to explain for your understanding through legendary stories." Cf. Isocr. 120 C; Plat. "Rep." 392 B. (55) For example, Leda, Danae, Europa, Alcmena, Electra, Latona, Laodamia (Zeune). (56) See "Hunting," i.; "Hell." VI. iii. 6. (57) See Plat. "Phaedr." 255 C; Cic. "Tusc." i. 26, "nec Homerum audio ... divina mallem ad nos," a statement against anthropomorphism in religion. (58) Not in "our" version of Homer, but cf. "Il." xx. 405, {ganutai de te tois 'Enosikhthon}; "Il." xiii. 493, {ganutai d' ara te phrena poimen}.
And again, in another passage he says:
And once more, in another section he states:
Knowing deep devices ({medea}) in his mind, (59)
Knowing deep devices ({medea}) in his mind, (59)
which is as much as to say, "knowing wise counsels in his mind." Ganymede, therefore, bears a name compounded of the two words, "joy" and "counsel," and is honoured among the gods, not as one "whose body," but "whose mind" "gives pleasure."
which is basically saying, "having wise advice in his mind." Ganymede, therefore, has a name made up of the two words, "joy" and "counsel," and is honored among the gods, not for his "body," but for his "mind" that "brings pleasure."
(59) Partly "Il." xxiv. 674, {pukina phresi mede' ekhontes}; and "Il." xxiv. 424, {phila phresi medea eidos}. Cf. "Od." vi. 192; xviii. 67, 87; xxii. 476.
(59) Partly "Il." xxiv. 674, {pukina phresi mede' ekhontes}; and "Il." xxiv. 424, {phila phresi medea eidos}. Cf. "Od." vi. 192; xviii. 67, 87; xxii. 476.
Furthermore (I appeal to you, Niceratus), (60) Homer makes Achilles avenge Patroclus in that brilliant fashion, not as his favourite, but as his comrade. (61) Yes, and Orestes and Pylades, (62) Theseus and Peirithous, (63) with many another noble pair of demigods, are celebrated as having wrought in common great and noble deeds, not because they lay inarmed, but because of the admiration they felt for one another.
Furthermore (I appeal to you, Niceratus), (60) Homer portrays Achilles avenging Patroclus in that impressive way, not as his favorite, but as his friend. (61) Yes, and Orestes and Pylades, (62) Theseus and Peirithous, (63) along with many other noble pairs of demigods, are known for having accomplished great and noble deeds together, not because they were unarmed, but because of the admiration they had for each other.
(60) As an authority on Homer. (61) Cf. Plat. "Symp." 179 E: "The notion that Patroclus was the beloved one is a foolish error into which Aeschylus has fallen," etc. (in his "Myrmidons"). See J. A. Symonds, "The Greek Poets," 2nd series, "Achilles," p. 66 foll. (62) Concerning whom Ovid ("Pont." iii. 2. 70) says, "nomina fama tenet." (63) See Plut. "Thes." 30 foll. (Clough, i. p. 30 foll.); cf. Lucian, xli. "Toxaris," 10.
(60) As an expert on Homer. (61) See Plato's "Symposium" 179 E: "The idea that Patroclus was the beloved one is a silly mistake that Aeschylus has made," etc. (in his "Myrmidons"). Refer to J. A. Symonds, "The Greek Poets," 2nd series, "Achilles," p. 66 and following. (62) Regarding whom Ovid ("Pont." iii. 2. 70) says, "his name is held by fame." (63) See Plutarch's "Theseus" 30 and following (Clough, i. p. 30 and following); compare with Lucian, xli. "Toxaris," 10.
Nay, take the fair deeds of to-day: and you shall find them wrought rather for the sake of praise by volunteers in toil and peril, than by men accustomed to choose pleasure in place of honour. And yet Pausanias, (64) the lover of the poet Agathon, (65) making a defence in behalf (66) of some who wallow in incontinence, has stated that an army composed of lovers and beloved would be invincible. (67) These, in his opinion, would, from awe of one another, have the greatest horror of destruction. A truly marvellous argument, if he means that men accustomed to turn deaf ears to censure and to behave to one another shamelessly, are more likely to feel ashamed of doing a shameful deed. He adduced as evidence the fact that the Thebans and the Eleians (68) recognise the very principle, and added: Though they sleep inarmed, they do not scruple to range the lover side by side with the beloved one in the field of battle. An instance which I take to be no instance, or at any rate one-sided, (69) seeing that what they look upon as lawful with us is scandalous. (70) Indeed, it strikes me that this vaunted battle-order would seem to argue some mistrust on their part who adopt it—a suspicion that their bosom friends, once separated from them, may forget to behave as brave men should. But the men of Lacedaemon, holding that "if a man but lay his hand upon the body and for lustful purpose, he shall thereby forfeit claim to what is beautiful and noble"—do, in the spirit of their creed, contrive to mould and fashion their "beloved ones" to such height of virtue, (71) that should these find themselves drawn up with foreigners, albeit no longer side by side with their own lovers, (72) conscience will make desertion of their present friends impossible. Self-respect constrains them: since the goddess whom the men of Lacedaemon worship is not "Shamelessness," but "Reverence." (73)
No, look at today's noble actions: you'll see they're mostly done for the sake of praise by volunteers in hard work and danger, not by people who prefer pleasure over honor. Yet Pausanias, the admirer of the poet Agathon, argued in defense of those who indulge in immorality, claiming that an army made up of lovers and their beloved would be unbeatable. He believed that out of respect for each other, they would have a strong fear of destruction. That's a remarkable argument if he thinks that people who usually ignore criticism and treat each other shamelessly are more likely to feel ashamed of committing a shameful act. He pointed out that the Thebans and Eleians understand this principle, adding that although they sleep armed, they have no issue placing lovers side by side with their beloved on the battlefield. I see that example as flawed or at least one-sided since what they view as acceptable might be scandalous to us. In fact, it seems to me that this praised battle formation reveals some doubt on their part— a fear that their close friends, once separated, might fail to act like true brave men. But the Spartans believe that "if a man lays his hand on the body for lustful reasons, he forfeits his claim to beauty and nobility." In line with this belief, they strive to develop their "beloved ones" to such a level of virtue that if they find themselves in battle alongside foreigners, even if they're no longer next to their own lovers, their conscience will prevent them from abandoning their current comrades. Self-respect compels them, as the goddess the Spartans honor is not "Shamelessness," but "Reverence."
(64) See Cobet, "Pros. Xen." p. 15; Plat. "Protag." 315 D; Ael. "V. H." ii. 21. (65) Ib.; Aristot. "Poet." ix. (66) Or, "in his 'Apology' for." (67) Plat. "Symp." 179 E, puts the sentiment into the mouth of Phaedrus: "And if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their loves, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonour, and emulating one another in honour; and when fighting at one another's side, although not a mere handful, they would overcome the world. For what lover would not choose rather to be seen by all mankind than by his beloved, either when abandoning his post or throwing away his arms? He would be ready to die a thousand deaths rather than endure this. Or would desert his beloved or fail him in the hour of danger? The veriest coward would become an inspired hero, equal to the bravest, at such a time; Love would inspire him. That courage which, as Homer says, the god breathes into the soul of heroes, Love of his own nature infuses into the lover" (Jowett). Cf. "Hunting," xii. 20; "Anab." VII. iv. 7; "Cyrop." VII. i. 30. (68) Sc. in their institutions. Cf. Plat. "Symp." 182, "in Elis and Boeotia"; "Pol. Lac." ii. 13; Ael. "V. H." iii. 12, xiii. 5; Athen. xiii. 2. For the Theban Sacred Band see Plut. "Pelop." 18, 19 (Clough, ii. 218). (69) Or, "not in pari materia, so to speak." (70) Is not Xenophon imputing himself to Socrates? Henkel cf. Plat. "Crito," 52 E. See Newman, op. cit. i. 396. (71) Or, "shape to so fine a manhood that..." (72) Reading {en te aute taxei}. Al. {... polei}, transl. "nor indeed in the same city." Cf. "Hell." V. iv. 33, re death of Cleonymus at Leuctra. (73) Lit. "Aidos not Anaideia." See Paus. "Lac." xx. 10; "Attica," xvii. 1; Cic. "de Leg." ii. 11, a reference which I owe to M. Eugene Talbot, "Xen." i. 236.
(64) See Cobet, "Pros. Xen." p. 15; Plat. "Protag." 315 D; Ael. "V. H." ii. 21. (65) Ib.; Aristot. "Poet." ix. (66) Or, "in his 'Apology' for." (67) Plat. "Symp." 179 E, puts the sentiment into the mouth of Phaedrus: "And if there were only some way to arrange that a state or an army should consist of lovers and their loves, they would be the best governors of their own city, avoiding all dishonor, and competing with one another in honor; and when fighting side by side, although not just a few, they would conquer the world. For what lover would choose to be seen by everyone rather than by his beloved, either when abandoning his post or throwing down his arms? He would rather face a thousand deaths than endure this. Or would he abandon his beloved or fail him in a moment of danger? The biggest coward would become an inspired hero, equal to the bravest, at such a moment; Love would inspire him. That courage which, as Homer says, the god breathes into the soul of heroes, Love of its own nature infuses into the lover" (Jowett). Cf. "Hunting," xii. 20; "Anab." VII. iv. 7; "Cyrop." VII. i. 30. (68) Sc. in their institutions. Cf. Plat. "Symp." 182, "in Elis and Boeotia"; "Pol. Lac." ii. 13; Ael. "V. H." iii. 12, xiii. 5; Athen. xiii. 2. For the Theban Sacred Band see Plut. "Pelop." 18, 19 (Clough, ii. 218). (69) Or, "not in the same subject matter, so to speak." (70) Is Xenophon not attributing himself to Socrates? Henkel cf. Plat. "Crito," 52 E. See Newman, op. cit. i. 396. (71) Or, "form to such great manhood that..." (72) Reading {en te aute taxei}. Al. {... polei}, transl. "nor indeed in the same city." Cf. "Hell." V. iv. 33, regarding the death of Cleonymus at Leuctra. (73) Lit. "Aidos not Anaideia." See Paus. "Lac." xx. 10; "Attica," xvii. 1; Cic. "de Leg." ii. 11, a reference which I owe to M. Eugene Talbot, "Xen." i. 236.
I fancy we should all agree with one another on the point in question, if we thus approached it. Ask yourself to which type of the two must he (74) accord, to whom you would entrust a sum of money, make him the guardian of your children, look to find in him a safe and sure depositary of any favour? (75) For my part, I am certain that the very lover addicted to external beauty would himself far sooner have his precious things entrusted to the keeping of one who has the inward beauty of the soul. (76)
I think we should all agree on this issue if we look at it this way. Ask yourself which type you'd trust to handle your money, take care of your kids, or be a reliable keeper of any favor? Personally, I believe that someone who is obsessed with outer beauty would much rather leave their valuable possessions in the care of someone who possesses inner beauty.
(74) He (the master-mistress of my passion). (75) {kharitas} = "kindly offices," beneficia. Cf. "Ages." iv. 4; "Mem." IV. iv. 17. Al. = delicias, "to deposit some darling object." (76) Or, "some one truly lovable in soul and heart."
(74) He (the master-mistress of my passion). (75) {kharitas} = "kind acts," benefits. Cf. "Ages." iv. 4; "Mem." IV. iv. 17. Al. = delicias, "to put down some treasured object." (76) Or, "someone who is truly lovable in spirit and heart."
Ah, yes! and you, my friend (he turned to Callias), you have good reason to be thankful to the gods who of their grace inspired you with love for your Autolycus. Covetous of honour, (77) beyond all controversy, must he be, who could endure so many toils and pains to hear his name proclaimed (78) victor in the "pankration."
Ah, yes! And you, my friend (he turned to Callias), you have every reason to be grateful to the gods for inspiring you with love for your Autolycus. He must be incredibly eager for recognition, without a doubt, to endure so many hardships and struggles just to hear his name announced as the champion in the "pankration."
(77) See "Mem." II. iii. 16; "Isocr." 189 C, {ph. kai megalopsukhoi}. (78) i.e. "by the public herald."
(77) See "Mem." II. iii. 16; "Isocr." 189 C, {ph. kai megalopsukhoi}. (78) i.e. "by the public herald."
But what if the thought arose within him: (79) his it is not merely to add lustre to himself and to his father, but that he has ability, through help of manly virtue, to benefit his friends and to exalt his fatherland, by trophies which he will set up against our enemies in war, (80) whereby he will himself become the admired of all observers, nay, a name to be remembered among Hellenes and barbarians. (81) Would he not in that case, think you, make much of (82) one whom he regarded as his bravest fellow-worker, laying at his feet the greatest honours?
But what if he started to think: his goal isn’t just to bring glory to himself and his father, but he actually has the skill, through true strength, to help his friends and uplift his country, by raising trophies against our enemies in battle, where he would become admired by everyone, even to the point of being remembered among Greeks and non-Greeks alike. Would he not then, do you think, truly honor the one he sees as his bravest partner, placing the highest honors at his feet?
(79) Cf. Theogn. 947:
(79) See Theogn. 947:
{patrida kosmeso, liparen polin, out' epi demo trepsas out' adikois andrasi peithomenos}.
{patrida kosmeso, liparen polin, out' epi demo trepsas out' adikois andrasi peithomenos}.
(80) Who in 421 B.C. were of course the Lacedaemonians and the allies. Autolycus was killed eventually by the Thirty to please the Lacedaemonian harmost. See Plut. "Lysand." 15 (Clough, iii. 120); Paus. i. 18. 3; ix. 32. 8. Cf. "Hell." II. iii. 14. (81) Cf. "Anab." IV. i. 20; "Mem." III. vi. 2. (82) {periepein}. Cf. "Cyrop." IV. iv. 12; "Mem." II. ix. 5.
(80) In 421 B.C., those were the Lacedaemonians and their allies. Autolycus was eventually killed by the Thirty to satisfy the Lacedaemonian governor. See Plut. "Lysand." 15 (Clough, iii. 120); Paus. i. 18. 3; ix. 32. 8. Cf. "Hell." II. iii. 14. (81) Cf. "Anab." IV. i. 20; "Mem." III. vi. 2. (82) {periepein}. Cf. "Cyrop." IV. iv. 12; "Mem." II. ix. 5.
If, then, you wish to be well-pleasing in his eyes, you had best inquire by what knowledge Themistocles (83) was able to set Hellas free. You should ask yourself, what keen wit belonged to Pericles (83) that he was held to be the best adviser of his fatherland. You should scan (84) the field of history to learn by what sage wisdom Solon (85) established for our city her consummate laws. I would have you find the clue to that peculiar training by which the men of Lacedaemon have come to be regarded as the best of leaders. (86) Is it not at your house that their noblest citizens are lodged as representatives of a foreign state? (87)
If you want to be looked upon favorably by him, you should find out how Themistocles (83) managed to free Greece. Ask yourself what sharp insight Pericles (83) had that made him the best counselor for his country. Take a look through history to discover the wise reasoning that allowed Solon (85) to create the perfect laws for our city. I urge you to uncover the unique training that has led the men of Sparta to be seen as the best leaders. (86) Isn't it at your home that their highest-ranking citizens stay as representatives of another state? (87)
(83) See "Mem." II. vi. 13; III. vi. 2; IV. ii. 2. (84) For the diction, {skepteon, skepteon, aphreteon, ereuneteon, epistamenos, eidos, philosopheras}, Xenophon's rhetorical style imitates the {orthoepeia} of Prodicus. (85) See "Econ." xiv. 4. (86) Or, "won for themselves at all hands the reputation of noblest generalship." Cf. "Ages." i. 3; "Pol. Lac." xiv. 3. (87) Reading as vulg. {proxenoi d' ei...} or if with Schenkl, {proxenos d' ei...} transl. "You are their consul-general; at your house their noblest citizens are lodged from time to time." As to the office, cf. Dem. 475. 10; 1237. 17; Thuc. ii. 29; Boeckh, "P. E. A." 50. Callias appears as the Lac. {proxenos} ("Hell." V. iv. 22) 378 B.C., and at Sparta, 371 B.C., as the peace commissioner ("Hell." VI. iii. 3).
(83) See "Mem." II. vi. 13; III. vi. 2; IV. ii. 2. (84) In terms of language, {skepteon, skepteon, aphreteon, ereuneteon, epistamenos, eidos, philosopheras}, Xenophon’s rhetorical style reflects the {orthoepeia} of Prodicus. (85) See "Econ." xiv. 4. (86) Or, "earned for themselves the reputation of the greatest generalship." Compare "Ages." i. 3; "Pol. Lac." xiv. 3. (87) Reading as commonly found {proxenoi d' ei...} or if following Schenkl, {proxenos d' ei...} translates to "You are their consul-general; at your home, their finest citizens stay occasionally." Regarding the position, see Dem. 475. 10; 1237. 17; Thuc. ii. 29; Boeckh, "P. E. A." 50. Callias is mentioned as the Lac. {proxenos} ("Hell." V. iv. 22) in 378 B.C., and in Sparta, 371 B.C., as the peace commissioner ("Hell." VI. iii. 3).
Be sure that our state of Athens would speedily entrust herself to your direction were you willing. (88) Everything is in your favour. You are of noble family, "eupatrid" by descent, a priest of the divinities, (89) and of Erechtheus' famous line, (90) which with Iacchus marched to encounter the barbarian. (91) And still, at the sacred festival to-day, it is agreed that no one among your ancestors has ever been more fitted to discharge the priestly office than yourself; yours a person the goodliest to behold in all our city, and a frame adapted to undergo great toils.
Make sure that our city of Athens would quickly trust you to lead us if you were willing. (88) Everything is working in your favor. You come from a noble family, "eupatrid" by birth, a priest of the gods, (89) and part of Erechtheus' well-known line, (90) which, together with Iacchus, faced the enemy. (91) And still, at today’s sacred festival, it’s agreed that no one among your ancestors has ever been better suited for the priestly role than you; you are the most impressive person to see in our city, with a body well-suited for enduring great challenges.
(88) Cf. "Mem." III. vii. (89) i.e. Demeter and Core. Callias (see "Hell." VI. l.c.) was dadouchos (or torch-holder) in the mysteries. (90) Or, "whose rites date back to Erechtheus." Cf. Plat. "Theag." 122. (91) At Salamis. The tale is told by Herod. viii. 65, and Plut. "Themist." 15; cf. Polyaen. "Strat." iii. 11. 2. Just as Themistocles had won the battle of Salamis by help of Iacchus on the 16th Boedromion, the first day of the mysteries, so Chabrias won the sea-fight of Naxos by help of the day itself, {to 'Alade mustai}, 376 B.C.
(88) Cf. "Mem." III. vii. (89) i.e. Demeter and Core. Callias (see "Hell." VI. l.c.) was the dadouchos (or torch-holder) in the mysteries. (90) Or, "whose rites trace back to Erechtheus." Cf. Plat. "Theag." 122. (91) At Salamis. The story is mentioned by Herod. viii. 65, and Plut. "Themist." 15; cf. Polyaen. "Strat." iii. 11. 2. Just as Themistocles secured victory in the battle of Salamis with the help of Iacchus on the 16th of Boedromion, the first day of the mysteries, so Chabrias won the naval battle of Naxos with the support of the day itself, {to 'Alade mustai}, 376 B.C.
But if I seem to any of you to indulge a vein more serious than befits the wine-cup, marvel not. It has long been my wont to share our city's passion for noble-natured souls, alert and emulous in pursuit of virtue.
But if any of you think I’m being more serious than what the wine cup calls for, don’t be surprised. I’ve always enjoyed sharing our city’s passion for noble-hearted people, who are eager and inspired in their quest for virtue.
He ended, and, while the others continued to discuss the theme of his discourse, Autolycus sat regarding Callias. That other, glancing the while at the beloved one, turned to Socrates.
He finished speaking, and while the others kept discussing the topic he spoke about, Autolycus sat watching Callias. Meanwhile, Callias, occasionally looking at the one he loved, turned to Socrates.
Call. Then, Socrates, be pleased, as go-between, (92) to introduce me to the state, that I may employ myself in state affairs and never lapse from her good graces. (93)
Call. Then, Socrates, please act as a go-between to introduce me to the state so that I can engage in state affairs and never fall out of her good graces.
(92) Lit. "as pander." (93) So Critobulus in the conversation so often referred to. "Mem." II. vi.
(92) Lit. "as pander." (93) So Critobulus in the conversation so often referred to. "Mem." II. vi.
Never fear (he answered), if only people see your loyalty to virtue is genuine, (94) not of mere repute. A false renown indeed is quickly seen for what it is worth, being tested; but true courage (95) (save only what some god hinder) perpetually amidst the storm and stress of circumstance (96) pours forth a brighter glory.
"Don’t worry," he replied, "as long as people can see that your loyalty to virtue is real, not just for show. A fake reputation is easily recognized once it’s put to the test; but true courage—unless a god intervenes—shines even brighter through the storm and challenges of life."
(94) See "Mem." I. vii. 1, passim; II. vi. 39; "Econ." x. 9. (95) Cf. Thuc. ii. 42, {andragathia}, "true courage in the public service covers a multitude of private shortcomings." (96) {en tais praxesi}. Cf. Plat. "Phaedr." 271 D, "in actual life."
(94) See "Mem." I. vii. 1, throughout; II. vi. 39; "Econ." x. 9. (95) See Thuc. ii. 42, {andragathia}, "true courage in public service hides many personal flaws." (96) {en tais praxesi}. See Plat. "Phaedr." 271 D, "in real life."
IX
IX
On such a note he ended his discourse.
On that note, he concluded his speech.
At that, Autolycus, whose hour for walking exercise had now come, arose. His father, Lycon, was about to leave the room along with him, but before so doing, turned to Socrates, remarking:
At that, Autolycus, whose time for a walk had arrived, stood up. His father, Lycon, was getting ready to leave the room with him, but before doing so, he turned to Socrates and said:
By Hera, Socrates, if ever any one deserved the appellation "beautiful and good," (1) you are that man!
By Hera, Socrates, if anyone ever deserved the title "beautiful and good," it's you!
(1) For {kalos ge kalathos} see "Econ." vii. 2 and passim.
(1) For {kalos ge kalathos} see "Econ." vii. 2 and throughout.
So the pair departed. After they were gone, a sort of throne was first erected in the inner room abutting on the supper chamber. Then the Syracusan entered, with a speech:
So the couple left. After they were gone, a kind of throne was set up in the inner room next to the dining area. Then the Syracusan came in, ready to speak:
With your good pleasure, sirs, Ariadne is about to enter the bridal chamber set apart for her and Dionysus. Anon Dionysus will appear, fresh from the table of the gods, wine-flushed, and enter to his bride. In the last scene the two will play (2) with one another.
With your kind permission, gentlemen, Ariadne is about to enter the bridal chamber prepared for her and Dionysus. Soon Dionysus will arrive, just coming from the feast of the gods, flushed with wine, and will join his bride. In the final scene, the two will interact with each other.
(2) {paixountai}. The Syracusan naturally uses the Doric form. See Cobet, "Pros. Xen." p. 16, note 23. Rutherford, "N. Phrynicus," p. 91.
(2) {paixountai}. The person from Syracuse typically uses the Doric form. See Cobet, "Pros. Xen." p. 16, note 23. Rutherford, "N. Phrynicus," p. 91.
He had scarce concluded, when Ariadne entered, attired like a bride. She crossed the stage and sate herself upon the throne. Meanwhile, before the god himself appeared a sound of flutes was heard; the cadence of the Bacchic air proclaimed his coming.
He had just finished speaking when Ariadne walked in, dressed like a bride. She crossed the stage and sat on the throne. Meanwhile, before the god himself appeared, the sound of flutes filled the air; the rhythm of the Bacchic music signaled his arrival.
At this point the company broke forth in admiration of the ballet-master. For no sooner did the sound of music strike upon the ear of Ariadne than something in her action revealed to all the pleasure which it caused her. She did not step forward to meet her lover, she did not rise even from her seat; but the flutter of her unrest was plain to see. (3)
At this moment, everyone in the company expressed their admiration for the ballet-master. As soon as Ariadne heard the music, her movements showed everyone just how much joy it brought her. She didn’t stand up to greet her lover, nor did she get up from her seat; but it was clear to see how restless she was. (3)
(3) Lit. "the difficulty she had to keep so still was evident."
(3) It was clear how hard it was for her to stay so still.
When Dionysus presently caught sight of her he loved, lightly he danced towards her, and with show of tenderest passion gently reclined upon her knees; his arms entwined about her lovingly, and upon her lips he sealed a kiss; (4)—she the while with most sweet bashfulness was fain to wind responsive arms about her lover; till the banqueters, the while they gazed all eyes, clapped hands and cried "Encore!" But when Dionysus rose upon his feet, and rising lifted Ariadne to her full height, the action of those lovers as they kissed and fondled one another was a thing to contemplate. (5) As to the spectators, they could see that Dionysus was indeed most beautiful, and Ariadne like some lovely blossom; nor were those mocking gestures, but real kisses sealed on loving lips; and so, (6) with hearts aflame, they gazed expectantly. They could hear the question asked by Dionysus, did she love him? and her answer, as prettily she swore she did. And withal so earnestly, not Dionysus only, but all present, had sworn an oath in common: the boy and girl were verily and indeed a pair of happy lovers. So much less did they resemble actors, trained to certain gestures, than two beings bent on doing what for many a long day they had set their hearts on.
When Dionysus saw her, he instantly fell in love. He danced lightly towards her and, with the utmost tenderness, gently leaned against her knees. His arms wrapped around her affectionately, and he pressed a kiss on her lips; meanwhile, she, with sweet shyness, eagerly wrapped her arms around her lover. The banqueters, watching with wide eyes, clapped their hands and shouted "Encore!" When Dionysus stood up and lifted Ariadne to her full height, the way they kissed and embraced became a sight to behold. The spectators could see that Dionysus was truly beautiful, and Ariadne was like a lovely flower; those were not mocking gestures, but genuine kisses shared between loving lips. With hearts racing, they watched with anticipation. They heard Dionysus ask her if she loved him, to which she prettily swore that she did. Everyone present, not just Dionysus, earnestly swore an oath together: these two were truly a pair of happy lovers. They resembled less like actors performing scripted gestures and more like two people who were finally pursuing what they had long desired.
(4) Or, "and encircling his arms about her impressed upon her lips a kiss." (5) Or, "then was it possible to see the more than mimic gestures." (6) Or, "on the tiptoe of excitement." Cf. "Hell." III. i. 14, iv. 2.
(4) Or, "and wrapped his arms around her, pressing a kiss onto her lips." (5) Or, "then it became possible to see the more than just pretend actions." (6) Or, "on the edge of excitement." Cf. "Hell." III. i. 14, iv. 2.
At last when these two lovers, caught in each other's arms, were seen to be retiring to the nuptial couch, the members of the supper party turned to withdraw themselves; and whilst those of them who were unmarried swore that they would wed, those who were wedded mounted their horses and galloped off to join their wives, in quest of married joys.
At last, when these two lovers, wrapped in each other's arms, were ready to head to the wedding bed, the guests at the dinner party decided to leave. While the unmarried ones pledged to get married, the married guests hopped on their horses and rode off to reunite with their wives, seeking the pleasures of married life.
Only Socrates, and of the rest the few who still remained behind, anon set off with Callias, to see out Lycon and his son, and share the walk.
Only Socrates, along with a few others who stayed behind, quickly set off with Callias to check on Lycon and his son and join them for a walk.
And so this supper party, assembled in honour of Autolycus, broke up.
And so, the dinner party gathered to celebrate Autolycus came to an end.
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