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PHAEDO



By Plato





Translated by Benjamin Jowett










Contents






INTRODUCTION.

After an interval of some months or years, and at Phlius, a town of Peloponnesus, the tale of the last hours of Socrates is narrated to Echecrates and other Phliasians by Phaedo the 'beloved disciple.' The Dialogue necessarily takes the form of a narrative, because Socrates has to be described acting as well as speaking. The minutest particulars of the event are interesting to distant friends, and the narrator has an equal interest in them.

After a gap of several months or years, in the town of Phlius in the Peloponnesus, Phaedo, the 'beloved disciple,' recounts the story of Socrates' last hours to Echecrates and other Phliasians. This Dialogues takes on a narrative style since it needs to capture both Socrates' actions and his words. The smallest details of the event are fascinating to friends far away, and the narrator shares that same interest.

During the voyage of the sacred ship to and from Delos, which has occupied thirty days, the execution of Socrates has been deferred. (Compare Xen. Mem.) The time has been passed by him in conversation with a select company of disciples. But now the holy season is over, and the disciples meet earlier than usual in order that they may converse with Socrates for the last time. Those who were present, and those who might have been expected to be present, are mentioned by name. There are Simmias and Cebes (Crito), two disciples of Philolaus whom Socrates 'by his enchantments has attracted from Thebes' (Mem.), Crito the aged friend, the attendant of the prison, who is as good as a friend—these take part in the conversation. There are present also, Hermogenes, from whom Xenophon derived his information about the trial of Socrates (Mem.), the 'madman' Apollodorus (Symp.), Euclid and Terpsion from Megara (compare Theaet.), Ctesippus, Antisthenes, Menexenus, and some other less-known members of the Socratic circle, all of whom are silent auditors. Aristippus, Cleombrotus, and Plato are noted as absent. Almost as soon as the friends of Socrates enter the prison Xanthippe and her children are sent home in the care of one of Crito's servants. Socrates himself has just been released from chains, and is led by this circumstance to make the natural remark that 'pleasure follows pain.' (Observe that Plato is preparing the way for his doctrine of the alternation of opposites.) 'Aesop would have represented them in a fable as a two-headed creature of the gods.' The mention of Aesop reminds Cebes of a question which had been asked by Evenus the poet (compare Apol.): 'Why Socrates, who was not a poet, while in prison had been putting Aesop into verse?'—'Because several times in his life he had been warned in dreams that he should practise music; and as he was about to die and was not certain of what was meant, he wished to fulfil the admonition in the letter as well as in the spirit, by writing verses as well as by cultivating philosophy. Tell this to Evenus; and say that I would have him follow me in death.' 'He is not at all the sort of man to comply with your request, Socrates.' 'Why, is he not a philosopher?' 'Yes.' 'Then he will be willing to die, although he will not take his own life, for that is held to be unlawful.'

During the thirty-day journey of the sacred ship to and from Delos, Socrates' execution has been postponed. He has spent this time in conversation with a select group of disciples. But now the sacred season is over, and the disciples gather earlier than usual to talk with Socrates for the last time. Those who are there, along with those who might have been expected, are named. There are Simmias and Cebes (Crito), two students of Philolaus whom Socrates has 'drawn from Thebes with his charm' (Mem.), Crito, the elderly friend who serves in the prison and is like a true friend—these are part of the discussion. Also present are Hermogenes, who provided Xenophon with information about Socrates' trial (Mem.), the 'madman' Apollodorus (Symp.), Euclid and Terpsion from Megara (compare Theaet.), Ctesippus, Antisthenes, Menexenus, and some other less-known members of the Socratic circle, all of whom listen silently. Aristippus, Cleombrotus, and Plato are noted as absent. Almost immediately after Socrates' friends enter the prison, Xanthippe and her children are sent home with one of Crito's servants. Socrates has just been freed from his chains, leading him to naturally remark that 'pleasure follows pain.' (Notice that Plato is setting the stage for his idea of the alternation of opposites.) 'Aesop would have portrayed them as a two-headed creature of the gods.' The mention of Aesop brings to Cebes' mind a question posed by the poet Evenus (compare Apol.): 'Why was Socrates, who was not a poet, putting Aesop into verses while in prison?'—'Because several times in his life, he had been warned in dreams to practice music; and as he was facing death and wasn't sure what that meant, he wanted to fulfill that advice both literally and in spirit by writing verses as well as focusing on philosophy. Pass this on to Evenus; and tell him that I wish he would follow me in death.' 'He's not the kind of person to heed your request, Socrates.' 'Why, isn't he a philosopher?' 'Yes.' 'Then he will be willing to face death, even if he won’t take his own life, since that is considered unlawful.'

Cebes asks why suicide is thought not to be right, if death is to be accounted a good? Well, (1) according to one explanation, because man is a prisoner, who must not open the door of his prison and run away—this is the truth in a 'mystery.' Or (2) rather, because he is not his own property, but a possession of the gods, and has no right to make away with that which does not belong to him. But why, asks Cebes, if he is a possession of the gods, should he wish to die and leave them? For he is under their protection; and surely he cannot take better care of himself than they take of him. Simmias explains that Cebes is really referring to Socrates, whom they think too unmoved at the prospect of leaving the gods and his friends. Socrates answers that he is going to other gods who are wise and good, and perhaps to better friends; and he professes that he is ready to defend himself against the charge of Cebes. The company shall be his judges, and he hopes that he will be more successful in convincing them than he had been in convincing the court.

Cebes asks why suicide is considered wrong if death is viewed as good. Well, (1) one explanation is that a person is like a prisoner who should not just open the door of his prison and escape—this is the truth behind a "mystery." Or (2) it’s because he doesn’t belong to himself, but is a possession of the gods, and he has no right to take away what isn’t his. But Cebes questions, if he is a possession of the gods, why would he want to die and leave them? After all, he is under their protection, and surely they take better care of him than he could of himself. Simmias explains that Cebes is really talking about Socrates, who seems indifferent to the idea of leaving the gods and his friends. Socrates responds that he is going to other gods who are wise and good, and maybe to even better friends; he insists that he is ready to defend himself against Cebes's accusation. The group will act as his judges, and he hopes to convince them more successfully than he did with the court.

The philosopher desires death—which the wicked world will insinuate that he also deserves: and perhaps he does, but not in any sense which they are capable of understanding. Enough of them: the real question is, What is the nature of that death which he desires? Death is the separation of soul and body—and the philosopher desires such a separation. He would like to be freed from the dominion of bodily pleasures and of the senses, which are always perturbing his mental vision. He wants to get rid of eyes and ears, and with the light of the mind only to behold the light of truth. All the evils and impurities and necessities of men come from the body. And death separates him from these corruptions, which in life he cannot wholly lay aside. Why then should he repine when the hour of separation arrives? Why, if he is dead while he lives, should he fear that other death, through which alone he can behold wisdom in her purity?

The philosopher longs for death—something the cruel world will suggest he deserves: and maybe he does, but not in a way they can grasp. Enough about them: the real question is, what kind of death does he desire? Death is the separation of soul and body—and the philosopher wants that separation. He wishes to be free from the control of physical pleasures and the senses, which constantly disrupt his mental clarity. He wants to be rid of eyes and ears, and with only the light of his mind, to see the light of truth. All the wrongs and impurities and needs of humanity stem from the body. Death frees him from these corruptions, which in life he cannot fully escape. So why should he lament when the moment of separation comes? Why, if he is dead while he lives, should he fear that other death, through which alone he can see wisdom in its purest form?

Besides, the philosopher has notions of good and evil unlike those of other men. For they are courageous because they are afraid of greater dangers, and temperate because they desire greater pleasures. But he disdains this balancing of pleasures and pains, which is the exchange of commerce and not of virtue. All the virtues, including wisdom, are regarded by him only as purifications of the soul. And this was the meaning of the founders of the mysteries when they said, 'Many are the wand-bearers but few are the mystics.' (Compare Matt. xxii.: 'Many are called but few are chosen.') And in the hope that he is one of these mystics, Socrates is now departing. This is his answer to any one who charges him with indifference at the prospect of leaving the gods and his friends.

Besides, philosophers have ideas of good and evil that are different from those of ordinary people. They show courage because they fear greater dangers and are temperate because they seek greater pleasures. But the philosopher looks down on this balancing act of pleasures and pains, seeing it as a transaction of commerce rather than a reflection of virtue. He views all virtues, including wisdom, as ways to cleanse the soul. This reflects what the founders of the mysteries meant when they said, 'Many are the wand-bearers, but few are the mystics.' (Compare Matt. xxii.: 'Many are called, but few are chosen.') And in the hope that he is one of these mystics, Socrates is now preparing to leave. This is his response to anyone who accuses him of being indifferent to the thought of leaving the gods and his friends.

Still, a fear is expressed that the soul upon leaving the body may vanish away like smoke or air. Socrates in answer appeals first of all to the old Orphic tradition that the souls of the dead are in the world below, and that the living come from them. This he attempts to found on a philosophical assumption that all opposites—e.g. less, greater; weaker, stronger; sleeping, waking; life, death—are generated out of each other. Nor can the process of generation be only a passage from living to dying, for then all would end in death. The perpetual sleeper (Endymion) would be no longer distinguished from the rest of mankind. The circle of nature is not complete unless the living come from the dead as well as pass to them.

Still, there's a concern that the soul might disappear after leaving the body, like smoke or air. In response, Socrates references the old Orphic belief that the souls of the dead exist in the underworld, and that the living come from them. He tries to base this on a philosophical idea that all opposites—like less and more, weak and strong, sleeping and waking, life and death—are created from one another. The process of generation can't just be a shift from living to dying, because then everything would just end in death. The eternal sleeper (Endymion) wouldn't be any different from everyone else. The cycle of nature isn't complete unless the living come from the dead as well as return to them.

The Platonic doctrine of reminiscence is then adduced as a confirmation of the pre-existence of the soul. Some proofs of this doctrine are demanded. One proof given is the same as that of the Meno, and is derived from the latent knowledge of mathematics, which may be elicited from an unlearned person when a diagram is presented to him. Again, there is a power of association, which from seeing Simmias may remember Cebes, or from seeing a picture of Simmias may remember Simmias. The lyre may recall the player of the lyre, and equal pieces of wood or stone may be associated with the higher notion of absolute equality. But here observe that material equalities fall short of the conception of absolute equality with which they are compared, and which is the measure of them. And the measure or standard must be prior to that which is measured, the idea of equality prior to the visible equals. And if prior to them, then prior also to the perceptions of the senses which recall them, and therefore either given before birth or at birth. But all men have not this knowledge, nor have any without a process of reminiscence; which is a proof that it is not innate or given at birth, unless indeed it was given and taken away at the same instant. But if not given to men in birth, it must have been given before birth—this is the only alternative which remains. And if we had ideas in a former state, then our souls must have existed and must have had intelligence in a former state. The pre-existence of the soul stands or falls with the doctrine of ideas.

The Platonic idea of reminiscence is presented as evidence for the soul's pre-existence. Some proofs of this idea are requested. One proof is similar to that found in the Meno, based on the hidden knowledge of mathematics that can be drawn out from someone uneducated when shown a diagram. Additionally, there is the power of association; seeing Simmias may trigger memories of Cebes, or seeing a picture of Simmias may remind someone of Simmias himself. A lyre can evoke thoughts of the person who plays it, and equal pieces of wood or stone can be linked to the higher concept of absolute equality. However, it's important to note that material equalities do not meet the standard of absolute equality that we compare them against, which serves as the measure for them. This measure or standard must come before what is measured—the idea of equality must precede the physical equals. If it comes before, then it must also come before the sensory perceptions that recall them, suggesting that it was either given before birth or at birth. Yet, not everyone has this knowledge, and no one has it without a process of reminiscence, proving it is not innate or given at birth unless it was both given and taken away immediately. If it was not provided at birth, then it must have been given before birth—this is the only remaining option. If we had ideas in a past existence, then our souls must have existed and possessed intelligence beforehand. The concept of the soul's pre-existence is tied to the theory of ideas.

It is objected by Simmias and Cebes that these arguments only prove a former and not a future existence. Socrates answers this objection by recalling the previous argument, in which he had shown that the living come from the dead. But the fear that the soul at departing may vanish into air (especially if there is a wind blowing at the time) has not yet been charmed away. He proceeds: When we fear that the soul will vanish away, let us ask ourselves what is that which we suppose to be liable to dissolution? Is it the simple or the compound, the unchanging or the changing, the invisible idea or the visible object of sense? Clearly the latter and not the former; and therefore not the soul, which in her own pure thought is unchangeable, and only when using the senses descends into the region of change. Again, the soul commands, the body serves: in this respect too the soul is akin to the divine, and the body to the mortal. And in every point of view the soul is the image of divinity and immortality, and the body of the human and mortal. And whereas the body is liable to speedy dissolution, the soul is almost if not quite indissoluble. (Compare Tim.) Yet even the body may be preserved for ages by the embalmer's art: how unlikely, then, that the soul will perish and be dissipated into air while on her way to the good and wise God! She has been gathered into herself, holding aloof from the body, and practising death all her life long, and she is now finally released from the errors and follies and passions of men, and for ever dwells in the company of the gods.

Simmias and Cebes argue that these points only show there is a past existence, not a future one. Socrates responds by recalling his earlier argument, where he demonstrated that the living come from the dead. However, the fear that the soul might just dissipate into thin air, especially if it happens to be windy, still remains unaddressed. He continues: When we worry that the soul will disappear, we should consider what exactly we think is at risk of breaking down. Is it the simple or the complex, the unchanging or the changing, the invisible idea or the visible object? Clearly, it's the latter, not the former; therefore, the soul is not in danger since, in its pure thought, it is unchangeable and only engages with change when using the senses. Additionally, the soul leads while the body follows: in this aspect, the soul resembles the divine, and the body resembles the mortal. From every perspective, the soul reflects divinity and immortality, while the body reflects humanity and mortality. And while the body can decay quickly, the soul is nearly, if not completely, indestructible. Yet, even the body can be preserved for ages through embalming; how improbable is it that the soul would perish and disperse into air on its journey to the good and wise God? The soul has turned inward, distancing itself from the body, practicing death throughout life, and is now finally free from the mistakes, foolishness, and passions of humans, forever residing with the gods.

But the soul which is polluted and engrossed by the corporeal, and has no eye except that of the senses, and is weighed down by the bodily appetites, cannot attain to this abstraction. In her fear of the world below she lingers about the sepulchre, loath to leave the body which she loved, a ghostly apparition, saturated with sense, and therefore visible. At length entering into some animal of a nature congenial to her former life of sensuality or violence, she takes the form of an ass, a wolf or a kite. And of these earthly souls the happiest are those who have practised virtue without philosophy; they are allowed to pass into gentle and social natures, such as bees and ants. (Compare Republic, Meno.) But only the philosopher who departs pure is permitted to enter the company of the gods. (Compare Phaedrus.) This is the reason why he abstains from fleshly lusts, and not because he fears loss or disgrace, which is the motive of other men. He too has been a captive, and the willing agent of his own captivity. But philosophy has spoken to him, and he has heard her voice; she has gently entreated him, and brought him out of the 'miry clay,' and purged away the mists of passion and the illusions of sense which envelope him; his soul has escaped from the influence of pleasures and pains, which are like nails fastening her to the body. To that prison-house she will not return; and therefore she abstains from bodily pleasures—not from a desire of having more or greater ones, but because she knows that only when calm and free from the dominion of the body can she behold the light of truth.

But the soul that is tainted and consumed by the physical world, having no perception beyond the senses and burdened by bodily desires, cannot reach this level of understanding. In her fear of the earthly realm, she hangs around the grave, reluctant to leave the body she cherished, a spectral figure, filled with sensory experience, and therefore visible. Eventually, she enters into some animal that resonates with her past life of indulgence or aggression, taking on the form of a donkey, a wolf, or a kite. Among these earthly souls, the happiest are those who have practiced virtue without philosophy; they are allowed to transition into gentle and social creatures, like bees and ants. (Compare Republic, Meno.) But only the philosopher who departs in purity is permitted to join the company of the gods. (Compare Phaedrus.) This is why he refrains from fleshly desires, not out of fear of loss or shame, which motivates other people. He too has been a prisoner, willingly participating in his own captivity. However, philosophy has reached out to him, and he has heard her call; she gently urged him, guiding him out of the 'miry clay' and clearing away the fog of passion and the illusions of the senses that surround him; his soul has freed itself from the grip of pleasures and pains, which act like nails keeping her bound to the body. She will not return to that prison; therefore, she avoids physical pleasures—not out of a wish for more or better ones, but because she understands that only when she is calm and free from the body's rule can she perceive the light of truth.

Simmias and Cebes remain in doubt; but they are unwilling to raise objections at such a time. Socrates wonders at their reluctance. Let them regard him rather as the swan, who, having sung the praises of Apollo all his life long, sings at his death more lustily than ever. Simmias acknowledges that there is cowardice in not probing truth to the bottom. 'And if truth divine and inspired is not to be had, then let a man take the best of human notions, and upon this frail bark let him sail through life.' He proceeds to state his difficulty: It has been argued that the soul is invisible and incorporeal, and therefore immortal, and prior to the body. But is not the soul acknowledged to be a harmony, and has she not the same relation to the body, as the harmony—which like her is invisible—has to the lyre? And yet the harmony does not survive the lyre. Cebes has also an objection, which like Simmias he expresses in a figure. He is willing to admit that the soul is more lasting than the body. But the more lasting nature of the soul does not prove her immortality; for after having worn out many bodies in a single life, and many more in successive births and deaths, she may at last perish, or, as Socrates afterwards restates the objection, the very act of birth may be the beginning of her death, and her last body may survive her, just as the coat of an old weaver is left behind him after he is dead, although a man is more lasting than his coat. And he who would prove the immortality of the soul, must prove not only that the soul outlives one or many bodies, but that she outlives them all.

Simmias and Cebes are still uncertain, but they don’t want to voice their doubts right now. Socrates is surprised by their hesitation. He suggests that they see him as a swan, who, having celebrated Apollo throughout his life, sings even more passionately at the moment of death. Simmias admits that there is a fear in not seeking the whole truth. “And if divine and inspired truth isn’t available, then a person should make the most of human ideas, and on this fragile boat, navigate through life.” He then shares his concern: Some argue that the soul is invisible and immaterial, and thus immortal and exists before the body. But isn’t the soul considered a harmony, and doesn’t it have a relationship to the body similar to how harmony—which is also invisible—relates to the lyre? Yet, the harmony doesn’t exist without the lyre. Cebes also has an objection, which he presents metaphorically like Simmias. He’s open to the idea that the soul lasts longer than the body. However, the soul's longer existence doesn’t prove its immortality; after exhausting many bodies in one lifetime and many more in successive lives, it may ultimately cease to exist. Or, as Socrates later reframes the issue, the very act of being born might mark the start of the soul's decline, and its last body could outlive it, just as an old weaver’s coat remains behind after he dies, even though a person lasts longer than their coat. Anyone who wants to prove the immortality of the soul must demonstrate not only that the soul outlasts one or many bodies, but that it outlives all of them.

The audience, like the chorus in a play, for a moment interpret the feelings of the actors; there is a temporary depression, and then the enquiry is resumed. It is a melancholy reflection that arguments, like men, are apt to be deceivers; and those who have been often deceived become distrustful both of arguments and of friends. But this unfortunate experience should not make us either haters of men or haters of arguments. The want of health and truth is not in the argument, but in ourselves. Socrates, who is about to die, is sensible of his own weakness; he desires to be impartial, but he cannot help feeling that he has too great an interest in the truth of the argument. And therefore he would have his friends examine and refute him, if they think that he is in error.

The audience, like the chorus in a play, briefly shares the emotions of the actors; there's a moment of sadness, and then the questioning starts up again. It's a sad thought that arguments, like people, can often be misleading; and those who have been misled many times tend to distrust both arguments and friends. However, this unfortunate experience shouldn't make us haters of people or haters of arguments. The lack of health and truth isn't in the argument itself, but within us. Socrates, who is about to die, is aware of his own weakness; he wants to be fair, but he can't help feeling that he is too invested in the truth of the argument. So, he wants his friends to challenge and disprove him if they believe he is wrong.

At his request Simmias and Cebes repeat their objections. They do not go to the length of denying the pre-existence of ideas. Simmias is of opinion that the soul is a harmony of the body. But the admission of the pre-existence of ideas, and therefore of the soul, is at variance with this. (Compare a parallel difficulty in Theaet.) For a harmony is an effect, whereas the soul is not an effect, but a cause; a harmony follows, but the soul leads; a harmony admits of degrees, and the soul has no degrees. Again, upon the supposition that the soul is a harmony, why is one soul better than another? Are they more or less harmonized, or is there one harmony within another? But the soul does not admit of degrees, and cannot therefore be more or less harmonized. Further, the soul is often engaged in resisting the affections of the body, as Homer describes Odysseus 'rebuking his heart.' Could he have written this under the idea that the soul is a harmony of the body? Nay rather, are we not contradicting Homer and ourselves in affirming anything of the sort?

At his request, Simmias and Cebes repeat their objections. They don’t completely deny the pre-existence of ideas. Simmias believes that the soul is a harmony of the body. However, accepting the pre-existence of ideas, and thus of the soul, contradicts this view. (See a similar issue in Theaet.) A harmony is an effect, while the soul is not an effect but a cause; a harmony follows, but the soul leads; a harmony can have varying degrees, but the soul does not. Also, if the soul is a harmony, why is one soul considered better than another? Are some souls more or less harmonized, or is there one harmony within another? But the soul can't have degrees and can’t be more or less harmonized. Additionally, the soul often works to resist the feelings of the body, as Homer describes Odysseus 'rebuking his heart.' Could he have written this with the idea that the soul is a harmony of the body? No, instead, aren't we contradicting Homer and ourselves by claiming something like that?

The goddess Harmonia, as Socrates playfully terms the argument of Simmias, has been happily disposed of; and now an answer has to be given to the Theban Cadmus. Socrates recapitulates the argument of Cebes, which, as he remarks, involves the whole question of natural growth or causation; about this he proposes to narrate his own mental experience. When he was young he had puzzled himself with physics: he had enquired into the growth and decay of animals, and the origin of thought, until at last he began to doubt the self-evident fact that growth is the result of eating and drinking; and so he arrived at the conclusion that he was not meant for such enquiries. Nor was he less perplexed with notions of comparison and number. At first he had imagined himself to understand differences of greater and less, and to know that ten is two more than eight, and the like. But now those very notions appeared to him to contain a contradiction. For how can one be divided into two? Or two be compounded into one? These are difficulties which Socrates cannot answer. Of generation and destruction he knows nothing. But he has a confused notion of another method in which matters of this sort are to be investigated. (Compare Republic; Charm.)

The goddess Harmonia, as Socrates playfully refers to Simmias's argument, has been dealt with; and now it’s time to respond to Theban Cadmus. Socrates summarizes Cebes's argument, which, as he points out, covers the entire question of natural growth or causation; about this, he plans to share his own mental journey. When he was younger, he wrestled with physics: he explored the growth and decay of animals and the origin of thought, until he eventually started to doubt the obvious idea that growth comes from eating and drinking. Thus, he concluded that he was not cut out for such inquiries. He was also confused by concepts of comparison and numbers. Initially, he believed he understood the differences between greater and lesser values, knowing that ten is two more than eight, and so on. But now those very ideas seemed contradictory to him. How can one be divided into two? Or two be combined into one? These are questions that Socrates cannot resolve. He knows nothing about generation and destruction. However, he has a vague idea of another way to investigate these kinds of issues. (Compare Republic; Charm.)

Then he heard some one reading out of a book of Anaxagoras, that mind is the cause of all things. And he said to himself: If mind is the cause of all things, surely mind must dispose them all for the best. The new teacher will show me this 'order of the best' in man and nature. How great had been his hopes and how great his disappointment! For he found that his new friend was anything but consistent in his use of mind as a cause, and that he soon introduced winds, waters, and other eccentric notions. (Compare Arist. Metaph.) It was as if a person had said that Socrates is sitting here because he is made up of bones and muscles, instead of telling the true reason—that he is here because the Athenians have thought good to sentence him to death, and he has thought good to await his sentence. Had his bones and muscles been left by him to their own ideas of right, they would long ago have taken themselves off. But surely there is a great confusion of the cause and condition in all this. And this confusion also leads people into all sorts of erroneous theories about the position and motions of the earth. None of them know how much stronger than any Atlas is the power of the best. But this 'best' is still undiscovered; and in enquiring after the cause, we can only hope to attain the second best.

Then he heard someone reading from a book of Anaxagoras, stating that mind is the cause of all things. He thought to himself: If mind is the cause of everything, then mind must also arrange things in the best way. The new teacher will show me this 'order of the best' in humans and nature. How high were his hopes and how deep his disappointment! He realized that his new friend was anything but consistent in using mind as a cause, and soon brought in strange ideas like winds, waters, and other odd notions. (Compare Arist. Metaph.) It was as if someone claimed that Socrates is sitting here because he’s made up of bones and muscles, rather than explaining the real reason—that he’s here because the Athenians decided to sentence him to death, and he has chosen to wait for his sentence. If his bones and muscles had been left to their own sense of right, they would have long since moved on. But there’s certainly a major mix-up between cause and condition in all this. This confusion also leads people into all kinds of incorrect theories about the position and movements of the earth. None of them understand how much stronger than any Atlas is the power of the best. Yet this 'best' remains undiscovered; in seeking the cause, we can only hope to reach the second best.

Now there is a danger in the contemplation of the nature of things, as there is a danger in looking at the sun during an eclipse, unless the precaution is taken of looking only at the image reflected in the water, or in a glass. (Compare Laws; Republic.) 'I was afraid,' says Socrates, 'that I might injure the eye of the soul. I thought that I had better return to the old and safe method of ideas. Though I do not mean to say that he who contemplates existence through the medium of ideas sees only through a glass darkly, any more than he who contemplates actual effects.'

Now, there’s a risk in pondering the nature of things, similar to the risk of looking at the sun during an eclipse, unless you take the precaution of only looking at the reflection in water or glass. (Compare Laws; Republic.) 'I was worried,' Socrates says, 'that I might harm the eye of the soul. I thought it was better to stick to the old and reliable method of ideas. Though I’m not saying that someone who contemplates existence through ideas sees only a distorted view, any more than someone who looks at actual effects does.'

If the existence of ideas is granted to him, Socrates is of opinion that he will then have no difficulty in proving the immortality of the soul. He will only ask for a further admission:—that beauty is the cause of the beautiful, greatness the cause of the great, smallness of the small, and so on of other things. This is a safe and simple answer, which escapes the contradictions of greater and less (greater by reason of that which is smaller!), of addition and subtraction, and the other difficulties of relation. These subtleties he is for leaving to wiser heads than his own; he prefers to test ideas by the consistency of their consequences, and, if asked to give an account of them, goes back to some higher idea or hypothesis which appears to him to be the best, until at last he arrives at a resting-place. (Republic; Phil.)

If we accept that ideas exist, Socrates believes he can easily prove that the soul is immortal. All he needs is for us to agree on one more thing: that beauty causes beautiful things, greatness causes great things, smallness causes small things, and so on for other concepts. This is a clear and straightforward explanation that avoids the contradictions of being greater or lesser (greater because of something smaller!), and the complexities of addition and subtraction, along with other relational challenges. He prefers to leave those intricate matters to smarter minds; instead, he focuses on evaluating ideas based on the consistency of their outcomes. When asked to explain them, he relates back to a higher idea or hypothesis that he thinks is the best, until he ultimately finds a solid conclusion. (Republic; Phil.)

The doctrine of ideas, which has long ago received the assent of the Socratic circle, is now affirmed by the Phliasian auditor to command the assent of any man of sense. The narrative is continued; Socrates is desirous of explaining how opposite ideas may appear to co-exist but do not really co-exist in the same thing or person. For example, Simmias may be said to have greatness and also smallness, because he is greater than Socrates and less than Phaedo. And yet Simmias is not really great and also small, but only when compared to Phaedo and Socrates. I use the illustration, says Socrates, because I want to show you not only that ideal opposites exclude one another, but also the opposites in us. I, for example, having the attribute of smallness remain small, and cannot become great: the smallness which is in me drives out greatness.

The idea that has been accepted by the followers of Socrates is now also recognized by the Phliasian listener as something that makes sense to any reasonable person. The story continues; Socrates wants to explain how opposing ideas can seem to coexist, but actually don’t in the same person or thing. For instance, Simmias can be viewed as both great and small because he is greater than Socrates but smaller than Phaedo. However, Simmias isn’t truly both great and small; those labels only apply when comparing him to Phaedo and Socrates. I use this example, Socrates says, because I want to illustrate not only that perfect opposites cannot coexist, but also that opposing traits within us can’t either. For example, my quality of smallness keeps me small, and I cannot become great; the smallness within me excludes greatness.

One of the company here remarked that this was inconsistent with the old assertion that opposites generated opposites. But that, replies Socrates, was affirmed, not of opposite ideas either in us or in nature, but of opposition in the concrete—not of life and death, but of individuals living and dying. When this objection has been removed, Socrates proceeds: This doctrine of the mutual exclusion of opposites is not only true of the opposites themselves, but of things which are inseparable from them. For example, cold and heat are opposed; and fire, which is inseparable from heat, cannot co-exist with cold, or snow, which is inseparable from cold, with heat. Again, the number three excludes the number four, because three is an odd number and four is an even number, and the odd is opposed to the even. Thus we are able to proceed a step beyond 'the safe and simple answer.' We may say, not only that the odd excludes the even, but that the number three, which participates in oddness, excludes the even. And in like manner, not only does life exclude death, but the soul, of which life is the inseparable attribute, also excludes death. And that of which life is the inseparable attribute is by the force of the terms imperishable. If the odd principle were imperishable, then the number three would not perish but remove, on the approach of the even principle. But the immortal is imperishable; and therefore the soul on the approach of death does not perish but removes.

One of the people here pointed out that this contradicted the old claim that opposites create opposites. But Socrates replied that this was said not about opposing ideas within us or in nature, but about concrete oppositions—not about life and death, but about individuals living and dying. Once this objection is addressed, Socrates continues: This idea of opposites excluding each other applies not only to the opposites themselves but also to things that are inseparable from them. For instance, cold and heat are opposites; fire, which is inseparable from heat, cannot coexist with cold, nor can snow, which is inseparable from cold, coexist with heat. Likewise, the number three excludes the number four because three is odd and four is even, and odd numbers oppose even numbers. Thus, we can go further than just a 'simple answer.' We can say that not only does odd exclude even, but the number three, which embodies oddness, also excludes even. Similarly, not only does life exclude death, but the soul, of which life is an inseparable characteristic, also excludes death. Anything that has life as its inseparable characteristic is, by definition, imperishable. If the principle of oddness were imperishable, then the number three would not fade away in the presence of the even principle. But the immortal is imperishable; therefore, the soul, when confronted with death, does not perish but withdraws.

Thus all objections appear to be finally silenced. And now the application has to be made: If the soul is immortal, 'what manner of persons ought we to be?' having regard not only to time but to eternity. For death is not the end of all, and the wicked is not released from his evil by death; but every one carries with him into the world below that which he is or has become, and that only.

Thus, all objections seem to be finally put to rest. Now we must ask: If the soul is immortal, 'what kind of people should we be?' considering not just this life but eternity as well. For death is not the end of everything, and the wicked are not freed from their wrongdoing by death; instead, everyone takes with them into the afterlife who they are or have become, and that alone.

For after death the soul is carried away to judgment, and when she has received her punishment returns to earth in the course of ages. The wise soul is conscious of her situation, and follows the attendant angel who guides her through the windings of the world below; but the impure soul wanders hither and thither without companion or guide, and is carried at last to her own place, as the pure soul is also carried away to hers. 'In order that you may understand this, I must first describe to you the nature and conformation of the earth.'

For after death, the soul is taken for judgment, and once she has received her punishment, she returns to earth after many years. The wise soul is aware of her situation and follows the guiding angel who leads her through the twists and turns of the world below; however, the impure soul wanders aimlessly without a companion or guide, ultimately being taken to her designated place, just as the pure soul is taken to hers. 'To help you understand this, I must first explain the nature and structure of the earth.'

Now the whole earth is a globe placed in the centre of the heavens, and is maintained there by the perfection of balance. That which we call the earth is only one of many small hollows, wherein collect the mists and waters and the thick lower air; but the true earth is above, and is in a finer and subtler element. And if, like birds, we could fly to the surface of the air, in the same manner that fishes come to the top of the sea, then we should behold the true earth and the true heaven and the true stars. Our earth is everywhere corrupted and corroded; and even the land which is fairer than the sea, for that is a mere chaos or waste of water and mud and sand, has nothing to show in comparison of the other world. But the heavenly earth is of divers colours, sparkling with jewels brighter than gold and whiter than any snow, having flowers and fruits innumerable. And the inhabitants dwell some on the shore of the sea of air, others in 'islets of the blest,' and they hold converse with the gods, and behold the sun, moon and stars as they truly are, and their other blessedness is of a piece with this.

Now the whole earth is a globe sitting at the center of the heavens, supported by perfect balance. What we call the earth is just one of many small depressions where mists, waters, and thick lower air gather; the true earth exists above, in a finer and more subtle element. If we could fly like birds to the surface of the air, just as fish rise to the top of the sea, we would see the true earth, the true heaven, and the real stars. Our earth is everywhere tainted and worn down; even the land, which is more beautiful than the sea, is just a chaotic mix of water, mud, and sand, lacking anything to compare with the other world. But the heavenly earth has many colors, sparkling with jewels brighter than gold and whiter than snow, filled with countless flowers and fruits. Its inhabitants live along the shores of the sea of air, on 'islets of the blessed,' where they talk with the gods and see the sun, moon, and stars as they truly are, experiencing a blessedness that is one with this.

The hollows on the surface of the globe vary in size and shape from that which we inhabit: but all are connected by passages and perforations in the interior of the earth. And there is one huge chasm or opening called Tartarus, into which streams of fire and water and liquid mud are ever flowing; of these small portions find their way to the surface and form seas and rivers and volcanoes. There is a perpetual inhalation and exhalation of the air rising and falling as the waters pass into the depths of the earth and return again, in their course forming lakes and rivers, but never descending below the centre of the earth; for on either side the rivers flowing either way are stopped by a precipice. These rivers are many and mighty, and there are four principal ones, Oceanus, Acheron, Pyriphlegethon, and Cocytus. Oceanus is the river which encircles the earth; Acheron takes an opposite direction, and after flowing under the earth through desert places, at last reaches the Acherusian lake,—this is the river at which the souls of the dead await their return to earth. Pyriphlegethon is a stream of fire, which coils round the earth and flows into the depths of Tartarus. The fourth river, Cocytus, is that which is called by the poets the Stygian river, and passes into and forms the lake Styx, from the waters of which it gains new and strange powers. This river, too, falls into Tartarus.

The depressions on the Earth's surface come in various sizes and shapes compared to where we live, but all are connected by tunnels and holes within the Earth. There’s one massive opening called Tartarus, where streams of fire, water, and liquid mud are constantly flowing. Some of these smaller portions reach the surface, creating seas, rivers, and volcanoes. There’s a constant inhaling and exhaling of air that rises and falls as water goes deep into the Earth and comes back up, creating lakes and rivers without ever going past the center of the Earth; on either side, the rivers flowing in opposite directions are blocked by a cliff. These rivers are numerous and powerful, with four main ones: Oceanus, Acheron, Pyriphlegethon, and Cocytus. Oceanus is the river that circles the Earth; Acheron flows in the opposite direction, passing under the Earth through desolate areas before finally reaching the Acherusian lake—this is where the souls of the dead wait to return to Earth. Pyriphlegethon is a fiery stream that wraps around the Earth and flows into the depths of Tartarus. The fourth river, Cocytus, is what poets refer to as the Stygian river, which flows into and creates the lake Styx, from whose waters it gains new and peculiar powers. This river also feeds into Tartarus.

The dead are first of all judged according to their deeds, and those who are incurable are thrust into Tartarus, from which they never come out. Those who have only committed venial sins are first purified of them, and then rewarded for the good which they have done. Those who have committed crimes, great indeed, but not unpardonable, are thrust into Tartarus, but are cast forth at the end of a year by way of Pyriphlegethon or Cocytus, and these carry them as far as the Acherusian lake, where they call upon their victims to let them come out of the rivers into the lake. And if they prevail, then they are let out and their sufferings cease: if not, they are borne unceasingly into Tartarus and back again, until they at last obtain mercy. The pure souls also receive their reward, and have their abode in the upper earth, and a select few in still fairer 'mansions.'

The dead are judged first by their actions, and those who can't be saved are cast into Tartarus, from which they can never escape. Those who have only committed minor sins are purified and then rewarded for their good deeds. Those who have committed serious but forgivable crimes are sent to Tartarus but are released after a year through Pyriphlegethon or Cocytus. They are taken as far as the Acherusian lake, where they appeal to their victims to let them out of the rivers into the lake. If they succeed, they are released, and their suffering ends; if not, they are continually taken back to Tartarus until they finally receive mercy. The pure souls are rewarded and reside in the upper world, with a select few in even more beautiful 'mansions.'

Socrates is not prepared to insist on the literal accuracy of this description, but he is confident that something of the kind is true. He who has sought after the pleasures of knowledge and rejected the pleasures of the body, has reason to be of good hope at the approach of death; whose voice is already speaking to him, and who will one day be heard calling all men.

Socrates isn't ready to claim that this description is exactly accurate, but he believes that something like it is true. Someone who has pursued the joys of knowledge and turned away from physical pleasures has good reason to feel hopeful as death nears; a voice is already speaking to him and will one day be heard calling all people.

The hour has come at which he must drink the poison, and not much remains to be done. How shall they bury him? That is a question which he refuses to entertain, for they are burying, not him, but his dead body. His friends had once been sureties that he would remain, and they shall now be sureties that he has run away. Yet he would not die without the customary ceremonies of washing and burial. Shall he make a libation of the poison? In the spirit he will, but not in the letter. One request he utters in the very act of death, which has been a puzzle to after ages. With a sort of irony he remembers that a trifling religious duty is still unfulfilled, just as above he desires before he departs to compose a few verses in order to satisfy a scruple about a dream—unless, indeed, we suppose him to mean, that he was now restored to health, and made the customary offering to Asclepius in token of his recovery.

The hour has come for him to drink the poison, and there isn’t much left to do. How should they bury him? He refuses to consider that, because they are burying not him, but his lifeless body. His friends were once confident he would stay, and now they will be witnesses that he has fled. Still, he doesn’t want to die without the traditional rituals of washing and burial. Should he pour out the poison? In spirit, he will, but not literally. He makes one request right at the moment of his death, which has puzzled people for ages. With a sense of irony, he remembers that a small religious duty remains unfulfilled, just as he wishes to write a few verses before he leaves, to soothe a concern about a dream—unless, of course, we interpret it as if he is now healthy again and making the usual offering to Asclepius in gratitude for his recovery.


1. The doctrine of the immortality of the soul has sunk deep into the heart of the human race; and men are apt to rebel against any examination of the nature or grounds of their belief. They do not like to acknowledge that this, as well as the other 'eternal ideas; of man, has a history in time, which may be traced in Greek poetry or philosophy, and also in the Hebrew Scriptures. They convert feeling into reasoning, and throw a network of dialectics over that which is really a deeply-rooted instinct. In the same temper which Socrates reproves in himself they are disposed to think that even fallacies will do no harm, for they will die with them, and while they live they will gain by the delusion. And when they consider the numberless bad arguments which have been pressed into the service of theology, they say, like the companions of Socrates, 'What argument can we ever trust again?' But there is a better and higher spirit to be gathered from the Phaedo, as well as from the other writings of Plato, which says that first principles should be most constantly reviewed (Phaedo and Crat.), and that the highest subjects demand of us the greatest accuracy (Republic); also that we must not become misologists because arguments are apt to be deceivers.

1. The belief in the immortality of the soul runs deep in humanity, and people tend to resist any questioning of the nature or reasons behind their belief. They don’t want to admit that this, like other ‘eternal ideas’ of mankind, has a history that can be traced back through Greek poetry or philosophy, as well as in the Hebrew Scriptures. They turn feelings into reasoning and layer complex arguments over what is really just a deeply ingrained instinct. In the same way that Socrates criticizes himself, they tend to think that even falsehoods won’t cause harm, since they will die with those lies, and while they are alive, they benefit from the illusion. And when they reflect on the countless flawed arguments that have been used to support theology, they wonder, like Socrates' friends, ‘What argument can we ever believe again?’ But there is a better and more noble perspective to be gained from the Phaedo and other works of Plato, which emphasizes that we should consistently review our first principles (Phaedo and Crat.), and that the most profound topics require our highest level of precision (Republic); we should also avoid becoming haters of reasoning simply because arguments can be misleading.

2. In former ages there was a customary rather than a reasoned belief in the immortality of the soul. It was based on the authority of the Church, on the necessity of such a belief to morality and the order of society, on the evidence of an historical fact, and also on analogies and figures of speech which filled up the void or gave an expression in words to a cherished instinct. The mass of mankind went on their way busy with the affairs of this life, hardly stopping to think about another. But in our own day the question has been reopened, and it is doubtful whether the belief which in the first ages of Christianity was the strongest motive of action can survive the conflict with a scientific age in which the rules of evidence are stricter and the mind has become more sensitive to criticism. It has faded into the distance by a natural process as it was removed further and further from the historical fact on which it has been supposed to rest. Arguments derived from material things such as the seed and the ear of corn or transitions in the life of animals from one state of being to another (the chrysalis and the butterfly) are not 'in pari materia' with arguments from the visible to the invisible, and are therefore felt to be no longer applicable. The evidence to the historical fact seems to be weaker than was once supposed: it is not consistent with itself, and is based upon documents which are of unknown origin. The immortality of man must be proved by other arguments than these if it is again to become a living belief. We must ask ourselves afresh why we still maintain it, and seek to discover a foundation for it in the nature of God and in the first principles of morality.

2. In earlier times, people believed in the immortality of the soul based more on tradition than reason. This belief was influenced by the Church's authority, the idea that it was essential for morality and social order, historical evidence, and metaphors that expressed deeply held instincts. Most people went about their daily lives, barely thinking about an afterlife. However, today that question is back on the table, and it's uncertain if the belief that once motivated early Christians can withstand the challenges posed by a scientific age where evidence has stricter standards and critical thinking is sharper. This belief has gradually faded as it moved further away from the historical facts it was thought to rest on. Arguments drawn from physical examples, like seeds and ears of corn or the transformation of animals from one stage to another (like caterpillars turning into butterflies), no longer seem relevant when trying to connect the visible world to the invisible one. The historical evidence seems weaker than previously thought; it's inconsistent and based on documents of unknown origin. If we are to revitalize the belief in human immortality, we need to find stronger arguments. We must reconsider why we still hold onto this belief and look for a foundation for it in the nature of God and basic moral principles.

3. At the outset of the discussion we may clear away a confusion. We certainly do not mean by the immortality of the soul the immortality of fame, which whether worth having or not can only be ascribed to a very select class of the whole race of mankind, and even the interest in these few is comparatively short-lived. To have been a benefactor to the world, whether in a higher or a lower sphere of life and thought, is a great thing: to have the reputation of being one, when men have passed out of the sphere of earthly praise or blame, is hardly worthy of consideration. The memory of a great man, so far from being immortal, is really limited to his own generation:—so long as his friends or his disciples are alive, so long as his books continue to be read, so long as his political or military successes fill a page in the history of his country. The praises which are bestowed upon him at his death hardly last longer than the flowers which are strewed upon his coffin or the 'immortelles' which are laid upon his tomb. Literature makes the most of its heroes, but the true man is well aware that far from enjoying an immortality of fame, in a generation or two, or even in a much shorter time, he will be forgotten and the world will get on without him.

3. To kick off this discussion, let’s clear up some confusion. We definitely don’t mean by the immortality of the soul the immortality of fame, which, whether it’s worth having or not, can only be attributed to a very small group of people in all of humanity, and even the interest in these few is relatively short-lived. Being a benefactor to the world, whether in a high or low position in life and thought, is a significant achievement: having the reputation of being one, after people have left the realm of earthly praise or blame, is hardly worth considering. The memory of a great person, instead of being immortal, is really confined to their own generation: as long as their friends or followers are alive, as long as their books are still read, as long as their political or military successes are recorded in the history of their country. The accolades given to them at their death barely last longer than the flowers scattered on their coffin or the 'immortelles' placed on their grave. Literature might glorify its heroes, but the true person knows that instead of enjoying lasting fame, in a generation or two, or even much sooner, they will be forgotten and the world will carry on without them.

4. Modern philosophy is perplexed at this whole question, which is sometimes fairly given up and handed over to the realm of faith. The perplexity should not be forgotten by us when we attempt to submit the Phaedo of Plato to the requirements of logic. For what idea can we form of the soul when separated from the body? Or how can the soul be united with the body and still be independent? Is the soul related to the body as the ideal to the real, or as the whole to the parts, or as the subject to the object, or as the cause to the effect, or as the end to the means? Shall we say with Aristotle, that the soul is the entelechy or form of an organized living body? or with Plato, that she has a life of her own? Is the Pythagorean image of the harmony, or that of the monad, the truer expression? Is the soul related to the body as sight to the eye, or as the boatman to his boat? (Arist. de Anim.) And in another state of being is the soul to be conceived of as vanishing into infinity, hardly possessing an existence which she can call her own, as in the pantheistic system of Spinoza: or as an individual informing another body and entering into new relations, but retaining her own character? (Compare Gorgias.) Or is the opposition of soul and body a mere illusion, and the true self neither soul nor body, but the union of the two in the 'I' which is above them? And is death the assertion of this individuality in the higher nature, and the falling away into nothingness of the lower? Or are we vainly attempting to pass the boundaries of human thought? The body and the soul seem to be inseparable, not only in fact, but in our conceptions of them; and any philosophy which too closely unites them, or too widely separates them, either in this life or in another, disturbs the balance of human nature. No thinker has perfectly adjusted them, or been entirely consistent with himself in describing their relation to one another. Nor can we wonder that Plato in the infancy of human thought should have confused mythology and philosophy, or have mistaken verbal arguments for real ones.

4. Modern philosophy finds this whole question really confusing, and sometimes it’s just left up to faith. We should keep this confusion in mind when we try to apply logic to Plato's Phaedo. What can we really understand about the soul when it’s separated from the body? How can the soul be connected to the body and still be independent? Is the soul related to the body like the ideal is to the real, or like the whole is to the parts, or as the subject is to the object, or as the cause is to the effect, or as the goal is to the means? Should we agree with Aristotle that the soul is the essence or form of a living body? Or with Plato that it has its own life? Which image is more accurate: the Pythagorean idea of harmony or that of the monad? Is the soul connected to the body like sight is to the eye, or like a boatman is to his boat? (Arist. de Anim.) And in another state of being, should we think of the soul as fading into infinity, barely existing in a way it can claim as its own, like in Spinoza’s pantheistic view? Or should we see it as an individual that informs another body, creating new relationships while keeping its own identity? (Compare Gorgias.) Or is the divide between soul and body just an illusion, with our true self being neither soul nor body, but the integration of both in the 'I' that surpasses them? Is death a declaration of this individuality in a higher state, while the lower falls away into nothingness? Or are we just foolishly trying to surpass the limits of human understanding? The body and soul seem inseparable, not just in reality but in how we think about them, and any philosophy that closely ties them together or separates them too much, whether in this life or the next, throws off the balance of human nature. No thinker has perfectly aligned them or been completely consistent in explaining their relationship. It’s no surprise that Plato, in the early days of human thought, mixed mythology with philosophy or confused logical arguments with real ones.

5. Again, believing in the immortality of the soul, we must still ask the question of Socrates, 'What is that which we suppose to be immortal?' Is it the personal and individual element in us, or the spiritual and universal? Is it the principle of knowledge or of goodness, or the union of the two? Is it the mere force of life which is determined to be, or the consciousness of self which cannot be got rid of, or the fire of genius which refuses to be extinguished? Or is there a hidden being which is allied to the Author of all existence, who is because he is perfect, and to whom our ideas of perfection give us a title to belong? Whatever answer is given by us to these questions, there still remains the necessity of allowing the permanence of evil, if not for ever, at any rate for a time, in order that the wicked 'may not have too good a bargain.' For the annihilation of evil at death, or the eternal duration of it, seem to involve equal difficulties in the moral government of the universe. Sometimes we are led by our feelings, rather than by our reason, to think of the good and wise only as existing in another life. Why should the mean, the weak, the idiot, the infant, the herd of men who have never in any proper sense the use of reason, reappear with blinking eyes in the light of another world? But our second thought is that the hope of humanity is a common one, and that all or none will be partakers of immortality. Reason does not allow us to suppose that we have any greater claims than others, and experience may often reveal to us unexpected flashes of the higher nature in those whom we had despised. Why should the wicked suffer any more than ourselves? had we been placed in their circumstances should we have been any better than they? The worst of men are objects of pity rather than of anger to the philanthropist; must they not be equally such to divine benevolence? Even more than the good they have need of another life; not that they may be punished, but that they may be educated. These are a few of the reflections which arise in our minds when we attempt to assign any form to our conceptions of a future state.

5. Once again, believing in the immortality of the soul, we still need to ask Socrates' question, 'What do we think is immortal?' Is it the personal and individual part of us, or the spiritual and universal aspect? Is it the principle of knowledge or goodness, or a combination of both? Is it just the force of life that persists, the self-awareness that can't be escaped, or the enduring spark of genius? Or is there a hidden being connected to the Creator of all existence, who exists because he is perfect, and to whom our ideas of perfection give us a sense of belonging? Whatever answer we come up with, we still have to accept that evil can persist, at least for a time, so that the wicked "don’t get too good a deal." The total removal of evil at death or its eternal presence both present challenges in the moral management of the universe. Sometimes, our emotions lead us to think that the good and wise only exist in another life. Why should those who are mean, weak, foolish, infantile, or the countless people who never truly use reason reappear with stunned faces in another world? But then we think again and realize that humanity shares a common hope, and that either all of us or none of us will experience immortality. Reason tells us not to assume we have greater claims than others, and our experiences often show us unexpected glimpses of higher qualities in those we’ve looked down on. Why should the wicked suffer any more than we do? If we were in their situation, would we be any better? The worst among us deserve pity rather than anger from those who care for others; shouldn't they also receive that compassion from divine kindness? More than the good, they are the ones who need another life—not for punishment, but for education. These are a few thoughts that come to mind as we try to shape our ideas about a future state.

There are some other questions which are disturbing to us because we have no answer to them. What is to become of the animals in a future state? Have we not seen dogs more faithful and intelligent than men, and men who are more stupid and brutal than any animals? Does their life cease at death, or is there some 'better thing reserved' also for them? They may be said to have a shadow or imitation of morality, and imperfect moral claims upon the benevolence of man and upon the justice of God. We cannot think of the least or lowest of them, the insect, the bird, the inhabitants of the sea or the desert, as having any place in a future world, and if not all, why should those who are specially attached to man be deemed worthy of any exceptional privilege? When we reason about such a subject, almost at once we degenerate into nonsense. It is a passing thought which has no real hold on the mind. We may argue for the existence of animals in a future state from the attributes of God, or from texts of Scripture ('Are not two sparrows sold for one farthing?' etc.), but the truth is that we are only filling up the void of another world with our own fancies. Again, we often talk about the origin of evil, that great bugbear of theologians, by which they frighten us into believing any superstition. What answer can be made to the old commonplace, 'Is not God the author of evil, if he knowingly permitted, but could have prevented it?' Even if we assume that the inequalities of this life are rectified by some transposition of human beings in another, still the existence of the very least evil if it could have been avoided, seems to be at variance with the love and justice of God. And so we arrive at the conclusion that we are carrying logic too far, and that the attempt to frame the world according to a rule of divine perfection is opposed to experience and had better be given up. The case of the animals is our own. We must admit that the Divine Being, although perfect himself, has placed us in a state of life in which we may work together with him for good, but we are very far from having attained to it.

There are some other questions that bother us because we don’t have answers to them. What will happen to the animals in the afterlife? Haven’t we seen dogs who are more loyal and smarter than humans, and humans who are more ignorant and cruel than any animals? Does their existence end with death, or is there some "better thing" waiting for them, too? We can say they have a semblance of morality and incomplete moral claims on our kindness and God’s justice. It’s hard to imagine the smallest creatures, like insects, birds, or sea and desert dwellers, having a place in a future world. If they don’t, then why should those who are especially close to humans be given any special status? When we think about such topics, we often spiral into nonsense. It’s just a fleeting thought that doesn’t really stay in our minds. We might argue for animals existing in an afterlife based on God’s attributes or scripture (like “Aren’t two sparrows sold for a penny?”), but the truth is, we’re just filling the idea of another world with our imaginations. We also frequently discuss the origin of evil, that big worry for theologians, who use it to scare us into accepting superstitions. What can we say to the old question, “Isn’t God the author of evil if He knowingly allowed it but could have stopped it?” Even if we believe that life’s inequalities are corrected somehow in another existence, the existence of even the smallest evil that could have been avoided seems to contradict God’s love and justice. So, we reach the point where we realize we’re overthinking things, and trying to make sense of the world according to a standard of divine perfection clashes with reality and should probably be abandoned. The situation with animals reflects our own. We have to acknowledge that, even though the Divine Being is perfect, He has put us in a life where we can work together with Him for good, yet we are very far from achieving that.

6. Again, ideas must be given through something; and we are always prone to argue about the soul from analogies of outward things which may serve to embody our thoughts, but are also partly delusive. For we cannot reason from the natural to the spiritual, or from the outward to the inward. The progress of physiological science, without bringing us nearer to the great secret, has tended to remove some erroneous notions respecting the relations of body and mind, and in this we have the advantage of the ancients. But no one imagines that any seed of immortality is to be discerned in our mortal frames. Most people have been content to rest their belief in another life on the agreement of the more enlightened part of mankind, and on the inseparable connection of such a doctrine with the existence of a God—also in a less degree on the impossibility of doubting about the continued existence of those whom we love and reverence in this world. And after all has been said, the figure, the analogy, the argument, are felt to be only approximations in different forms to an expression of the common sentiment of the human heart. That we shall live again is far more certain than that we shall take any particular form of life.

6. Once again, ideas must be communicated in some way; and we tend to discuss the soul by using analogies from the physical world that can help illustrate our thoughts, but may also be somewhat misleading. We can't draw conclusions from the physical to the spiritual, or from what we see outside to what is within. The advancement of physiological science, while not getting us closer to the ultimate mystery, has helped eliminate some false beliefs about the relationship between body and mind, giving us an advantage over the ancients. However, no one thinks there’s a trace of immortality within our mortal bodies. Most people base their belief in an afterlife on the consensus of the more enlightened part of humanity and on how closely this belief is tied to the existence of God—also, to a lesser extent, on the impossibility of doubting the ongoing existence of those we love and admire in this life. Ultimately, all the figures, analogies, and arguments are felt to be just different ways of expressing the common emotions of humanity. The certainty that we will live again is far greater than the certainty of what specific form our life will take.

7. When we speak of the immortality of the soul, we must ask further what we mean by the word immortality. For of the duration of a living being in countless ages we can form no conception; far less than a three years' old child of the whole of life. The naked eye might as well try to see the furthest star in the infinity of heaven. Whether time and space really exist when we take away the limits of them may be doubted; at any rate the thought of them when unlimited us so overwhelming to us as to lose all distinctness. Philosophers have spoken of them as forms of the human mind, but what is the mind without them? As then infinite time, or an existence out of time, which are the only possible explanations of eternal duration, are equally inconceivable to us, let us substitute for them a hundred or a thousand years after death, and ask not what will be our employment in eternity, but what will happen to us in that definite portion of time; or what is now happening to those who passed out of life a hundred or a thousand years ago. Do we imagine that the wicked are suffering torments, or that the good are singing the praises of God, during a period longer than that of a whole life, or of ten lives of men? Is the suffering physical or mental? And does the worship of God consist only of praise, or of many forms of service? Who are the wicked, and who are the good, whom we venture to divide by a hard and fast line; and in which of the two classes should we place ourselves and our friends? May we not suspect that we are making differences of kind, because we are unable to imagine differences of degree?—putting the whole human race into heaven or hell for the greater convenience of logical division? Are we not at the same time describing them both in superlatives, only that we may satisfy the demands of rhetoric? What is that pain which does not become deadened after a thousand years? or what is the nature of that pleasure or happiness which never wearies by monotony? Earthly pleasures and pains are short in proportion as they are keen; of any others which are both intense and lasting we have no experience, and can form no idea. The words or figures of speech which we use are not consistent with themselves. For are we not imagining Heaven under the similitude of a church, and Hell as a prison, or perhaps a madhouse or chamber of horrors? And yet to beings constituted as we are, the monotony of singing psalms would be as great an infliction as the pains of hell, and might be even pleasantly interrupted by them. Where are the actions worthy of rewards greater than those which are conferred on the greatest benefactors of mankind? And where are the crimes which according to Plato's merciful reckoning,—more merciful, at any rate, than the eternal damnation of so-called Christian teachers,—for every ten years in this life deserve a hundred of punishment in the life to come? We should be ready to die of pity if we could see the least of the sufferings which the writers of Infernos and Purgatorios have attributed to the damned. Yet these joys and terrors seem hardly to exercise an appreciable influence over the lives of men. The wicked man when old, is not, as Plato supposes (Republic), more agitated by the terrors of another world when he is nearer to them, nor the good in an ecstasy at the joys of which he is soon to be the partaker. Age numbs the sense of both worlds; and the habit of life is strongest in death. Even the dying mother is dreaming of her lost children as they were forty or fifty years before, 'pattering over the boards,' not of reunion with them in another state of being. Most persons when the last hour comes are resigned to the order of nature and the will of God. They are not thinking of Dante's Inferno or Paradiso, or of the Pilgrim's Progress. Heaven and hell are not realities to them, but words or ideas; the outward symbols of some great mystery, they hardly know what. Many noble poems and pictures have been suggested by the traditional representations of them, which have been fixed in forms of art and can no longer be altered. Many sermons have been filled with descriptions of celestial or infernal mansions. But hardly even in childhood did the thought of heaven and hell supply the motives of our actions, or at any time seriously affect the substance of our belief.

7. When we talk about the immortality of the soul, we need to clarify what we mean by "immortality." The idea of a living being existing across countless ages is beyond our understanding, just as a three-year-old child grasps only a fragment of life. It would be like expecting the naked eye to see the farthest star in the endless sky. There’s reason to doubt whether time and space truly exist once we remove their limits; in fact, the idea of them when they are unlimited overwhelms us to the point of losing all clarity. Philosophers have described them as aspects of the human mind, but what is the mind without them? Since infinite time and an existence outside of time—both of which could explain eternal duration—are equally unimaginable to us, let's consider instead a hundred or a thousand years after death. We should focus not on what we will be doing in eternity but on what will happen to us during that specific timeframe, or what is currently happening to those who died a hundred or a thousand years ago. Do we believe that the wicked are being tormented, or that the good are praising God, for a period longer than an entire lifetime or even ten lifetimes? Is their suffering physical or mental? And does worship of God consist solely of praise, or does it include various forms of service? Who are the wicked and who are the good, where we draw a strict line? Which group should we consider ourselves and our friends to be in? Can we not suspect that we create distinctions of type because we struggle to imagine distinctions of degree—putting the entire human race into heaven or hell for the simplicity of logical categorization? Are we not describing both groups in superlatives just to satisfy rhetorical needs? What is that pain that doesn’t fade after a thousand years? Or what is the kind of pleasure or happiness that never gets tiresome? Earthly pleasures and pains are brief compared to their intensity; we have no experience or idea of any that are both intense and enduring. The words or expressions we use are inconsistent. Are we not envisioning Heaven as a church and Hell as a prison, or perhaps a madhouse or a chamber of horrors? Yet for beings like us, the monotony of singing hymns would be just as tormenting as hell itself, potentially even made more bearable by those pains. Where are the actions deserving of rewards greater than those granted to humanity’s greatest benefactors? And where are the crimes that, according to Plato's compassionate views—more compassionate than the eternal damnation offered by some so-called Christian teachings—merit a hundred years of punishment for every ten years of wrongdoing in this life? We would be filled with pity if we could glimpse the slightest of the sufferings attributed to the damned by authors of Infernos and Purgatorios. Yet those joys and terrors seem to hardly influence people's lives significantly. The wicked, when old, do not seem, as Plato suggests (Republic), to be more troubled by the fear of the next world as they approach it, nor do the good experience ecstasy about the joys they will soon partake in. Age dulls the sense of both worlds, and the habits of life are the strongest at the moment of death. Even the dying mother dreams of her lost children as they were forty or fifty years ago, 'pattering over the boards,' not of reuniting with them in another state of existence. Most people, when their final hour arrives, accept the natural order and the will of God. They are not preoccupied with Dante's Inferno or Paradiso or Pilgrim's Progress. Heaven and hell aren’t realities for them but merely words or ideas; the outward symbols of some great mystery they barely understand. Numerous noble poems and artworks have emerged from traditional depictions of these concepts, fixed in forms of art that can no longer be altered. Many sermons have been filled with descriptions of heavenly or hellish places. Yet even in childhood, the thought of heaven and hell rarely motivated our actions, nor did it significantly influence the substance of our beliefs.

8. Another life must be described, if at all, in forms of thought and not of sense. To draw pictures of heaven and hell, whether in the language of Scripture or any other, adds nothing to our real knowledge, but may perhaps disguise our ignorance. The truest conception which we can form of a future life is a state of progress or education—a progress from evil to good, from ignorance to knowledge. To this we are led by the analogy of the present life, in which we see different races and nations of men, and different men and women of the same nation, in various states or stages of cultivation; some more and some less developed, and all of them capable of improvement under favourable circumstances. There are punishments too of children when they are growing up inflicted by their parents, of elder offenders which are imposed by the law of the land, of all men at all times of life, which are attached by the laws of nature to the performance of certain actions. All these punishments are really educational; that is to say, they are not intended to retaliate on the offender, but to teach him a lesson. Also there is an element of chance in them, which is another name for our ignorance of the laws of nature. There is evil too inseparable from good (compare Lysis); not always punished here, as good is not always rewarded. It is capable of being indefinitely diminished; and as knowledge increases, the element of chance may more and more disappear.

8. Another life must be described, if at all, in terms of thought and not from sensory experience. Drawing pictures of heaven and hell, whether using Scripture or any other language, doesn’t really add to our understanding but might just conceal our ignorance. The truest idea we can have of an afterlife is one of growth or education—a move from bad to good, from ignorance to knowledge. We see this reflected in our current lives, where different races and nations of people, as well as various individuals within the same nation, are at different levels of development; some more advanced, some less, but all capable of improvement under the right circumstances. There are also punishments for children as they grow, enforced by their parents, for older wrongdoers imposed by the law, and for everyone throughout life, attached to natural laws based on certain actions. All these punishments are genuinely educational; they aim not to hurt the offender but to teach them a lesson. There’s also an element of chance involved, which reflects our lack of understanding of nature's laws. There is evil closely connected with good (see Lysis); it isn’t always punished here, just as good isn't always rewarded. Evil can be reduced indefinitely; as we gain knowledge, the element of chance may diminish more and more.

For we do not argue merely from the analogy of the present state of this world to another, but from the analogy of a probable future to which we are tending. The greatest changes of which we have had experience as yet are due to our increasing knowledge of history and of nature. They have been produced by a few minds appearing in three or four favoured nations, in a comparatively short period of time. May we be allowed to imagine the minds of men everywhere working together during many ages for the completion of our knowledge? May not the science of physiology transform the world? Again, the majority of mankind have really experienced some moral improvement; almost every one feels that he has tendencies to good, and is capable of becoming better. And these germs of good are often found to be developed by new circumstances, like stunted trees when transplanted to a better soil. The differences between the savage and the civilized man, or between the civilized man in old and new countries, may be indefinitely increased. The first difference is the effect of a few thousand, the second of a few hundred years. We congratulate ourselves that slavery has become industry; that law and constitutional government have superseded despotism and violence; that an ethical religion has taken the place of Fetichism. There may yet come a time when the many may be as well off as the few; when no one will be weighed down by excessive toil; when the necessity of providing for the body will not interfere with mental improvement; when the physical frame may be strengthened and developed; and the religion of all men may become a reasonable service.

For we don't just compare the current state of the world to another, but rather we look at a likely future we are moving toward. The biggest changes we've experienced so far come from our growing understanding of history and nature. These changes have come from a few brilliant minds in a few privileged nations over a relatively short period of time. Can we imagine people everywhere working together for ages to advance our knowledge? Could the science of physiology change the world? Furthermore, most people have genuinely seen some moral improvement; almost everyone feels they have good tendencies and can become better. These seeds of goodness often flourish under new circumstances, just like stunted trees thrive when moved to a better soil. The differences between the primitive and the civilized person, or between the civilized individual in old versus new countries, can be greatly expanded. The first difference stems from a few thousand years, while the second arises from a few hundred. We take pride in the fact that slavery has turned into labor; that law and constitutional governance have replaced tyranny and brutality; that an ethical religion has taken the place of fetishism. There may come a time when the many will enjoy the same privileges as the few; when no one will be burdened by excessive labor; when the need to provide for physical needs won't interfere with mental growth; when our physical bodies can be strengthened and developed; and when the religion of everyone becomes a rational practice.

Nothing therefore, either in the present state of man or in the tendencies of the future, as far as we can entertain conjecture of them, would lead us to suppose that God governs us vindictively in this world, and therefore we have no reason to infer that he will govern us vindictively in another. The true argument from analogy is not, 'This life is a mixed state of justice and injustice, of great waste, of sudden casualties, of disproportionate punishments, and therefore the like inconsistencies, irregularities, injustices are to be expected in another;' but 'This life is subject to law, and is in a state of progress, and therefore law and progress may be believed to be the governing principles of another.' All the analogies of this world would be against unmeaning punishments inflicted a hundred or a thousand years after an offence had been committed. Suffering there might be as a part of education, but not hopeless or protracted; as there might be a retrogression of individuals or of bodies of men, yet not such as to interfere with a plan for the improvement of the whole (compare Laws.)

Nothing in the current state of humanity or in potential future trends, as far as we can guess, suggests that God rules us with vengeance in this life. Therefore, we have no reason to believe He will govern us in the same way in the next. The correct analogy isn’t, “This life is a mix of justice and injustice, full of waste, sudden misfortunes, and uneven punishments, so we should expect similar inconsistencies and injustices in the next life,” but rather, “This life operates under laws and is progressing, so we can expect law and progress to be the governing principles of the next life.” All the examples from this world contradict the idea of meaningless punishments imposed a hundred or a thousand years after an offense was committed. There may be suffering as a form of education, but it wouldn't be hopeless or prolonged; there might be setbacks for individuals or groups, but they wouldn't disrupt the overall plan for improvement (see Laws).

9. But some one will say: That we cannot reason from the seen to the unseen, and that we are creating another world after the image of this, just as men in former ages have created gods in their own likeness. And we, like the companions of Socrates, may feel discouraged at hearing our favourite 'argument from analogy' thus summarily disposed of. Like himself, too, we may adduce other arguments in which he seems to have anticipated us, though he expresses them in different language. For we feel that the soul partakes of the ideal and invisible; and can never fall into the error of confusing the external circumstances of man with his higher self; or his origin with his nature. It is as repugnant to us as it was to him to imagine that our moral ideas are to be attributed only to cerebral forces. The value of a human soul, like the value of a man's life to himself, is inestimable, and cannot be reckoned in earthly or material things. The human being alone has the consciousness of truth and justice and love, which is the consciousness of God. And the soul becoming more conscious of these, becomes more conscious of her own immortality.

9. But someone might argue that we can't reason from what we can see to what we can't, and that we're just creating another world based on this one, similar to how people in the past created gods in their own image. Like the followers of Socrates, we might feel discouraged when our favorite "argument from analogy" is dismissed so quickly. We might also present other arguments that he seemed to anticipate, even if he expressed them in different words. We believe that the soul is connected to the ideal and the invisible, and we can never mistake a person's external circumstances for their higher self, or confuse their origin with their true nature. It's just as upsetting to us as it was to him to think that our moral ideas are solely the result of brain functions. The worth of a human soul, just like a person's life to themselves, is priceless and can't be measured in material or worldly terms. Only humans possess the awareness of truth, justice, and love, which reflects the awareness of God. As the soul becomes more aware of these qualities, it also becomes more aware of its own immortality.

10. The last ground of our belief in immortality, and the strongest, is the perfection of the divine nature. The mere fact of the existence of God does not tend to show the continued existence of man. An evil God or an indifferent God might have had the power, but not the will, to preserve us. He might have regarded us as fitted to minister to his service by a succession of existences,—like the animals, without attributing to each soul an incomparable value. But if he is perfect, he must will that all rational beings should partake of that perfection which he himself is. In the words of the Timaeus, he is good, and therefore he desires that all other things should be as like himself as possible. And the manner in which he accomplishes this is by permitting evil, or rather degrees of good, which are otherwise called evil. For all progress is good relatively to the past, and yet may be comparatively evil when regarded in the light of the future. Good and evil are relative terms, and degrees of evil are merely the negative aspect of degrees of good. Of the absolute goodness of any finite nature we can form no conception; we are all of us in process of transition from one degree of good or evil to another. The difficulties which are urged about the origin or existence of evil are mere dialectical puzzles, standing in the same relation to Christian philosophy as the puzzles of the Cynics and Megarians to the philosophy of Plato. They arise out of the tendency of the human mind to regard good and evil both as relative and absolute; just as the riddles about motion are to be explained by the double conception of space or matter, which the human mind has the power of regarding either as continuous or discrete.

10. The final reason we believe in immortality, and the strongest one, is the perfection of the divine nature. The mere existence of God doesn’t necessarily indicate that humans continue to exist. A malicious or indifferent God might have had the power but not the desire to keep us around. He could have seen us as tools to serve him through a series of lives—like animals—without assigning each soul its unique value. However, if God is perfect, he must want all rational beings to share in the perfection that he embodies. As stated in the Timaeus, he is good and, therefore, wants everything else to be as similar to him as possible. He achieves this by allowing evil or, more accurately, varying degrees of good, which we refer to as evil. Progress is relative to the past and may seem relatively evil when viewed in the context of the future. Good and evil are relative concepts, and the degrees of evil are simply the negative side of degrees of good. We cannot fully comprehend the absolute goodness of any finite nature; we are all in a constant state of transition from one level of good or evil to another. The challenges raised about the origin or existence of evil are just intellectual puzzles, similar to the riddles the Cynics and Megarians presented in relation to Plato's philosophy. They stem from the human mind's tendency to view good and evil as both relative and absolute, just as the enigmas of motion can be explained by the dual understanding of space or matter, which we can perceive as either continuous or discrete.

In speaking of divine perfection, we mean to say that God is just and true and loving, the author of order and not of disorder, of good and not of evil. Or rather, that he is justice, that he is truth, that he is love, that he is order, that he is the very progress of which we were speaking; and that wherever these qualities are present, whether in the human soul or in the order of nature, there is God. We might still see him everywhere, if we had not been mistakenly seeking for him apart from us, instead of in us; away from the laws of nature, instead of in them. And we become united to him not by mystical absorption, but by partaking, whether consciously or unconsciously, of that truth and justice and love which he himself is.

When we talk about divine perfection, we mean that God is just, true, and loving; He is the creator of order, not chaos, of good, not evil. In fact, He embodies justice, truth, love, and order, and He represents the progress we've been discussing. Wherever these qualities exist, whether in the human spirit or in nature, there is God. We could see Him everywhere if we hadn’t mistakenly looked for Him outside ourselves instead of within us; if we hadn’t sought Him away from the laws of nature instead of in them. We connect with Him not through mystical merging, but by experiencing, whether we realize it or not, the truth, justice, and love that He embodies.

Thus the belief in the immortality of the soul rests at last on the belief in God. If there is a good and wise God, then there is a progress of mankind towards perfection; and if there is no progress of men towards perfection, then there is no good and wise God. We cannot suppose that the moral government of God of which we see the beginnings in the world and in ourselves will cease when we pass out of life.

Thus, the belief in the immortality of the soul ultimately depends on the belief in God. If there is a good and wise God, then humanity is making progress toward perfection; and if there is no progress toward perfection, then there is no good and wise God. We can’t assume that the moral governance of God, which we can observe starting in the world and within ourselves, will end when we leave this life.

11. Considering the 'feebleness of the human faculties and the uncertainty of the subject,' we are inclined to believe that the fewer our words the better. At the approach of death there is not much said; good men are too honest to go out of the world professing more than they know. There is perhaps no important subject about which, at any time, even religious people speak so little to one another. In the fulness of life the thought of death is mostly awakened by the sight or recollection of the death of others rather than by the prospect of our own. We must also acknowledge that there are degrees of the belief in immortality, and many forms in which it presents itself to the mind. Some persons will say no more than that they trust in God, and that they leave all to Him. It is a great part of true religion not to pretend to know more than we do. Others when they quit this world are comforted with the hope 'That they will see and know their friends in heaven.' But it is better to leave them in the hands of God and to be assured that 'no evil shall touch them.' There are others again to whom the belief in a divine personality has ceased to have any longer a meaning; yet they are satisfied that the end of all is not here, but that something still remains to us, 'and some better thing for the good than for the evil.' They are persuaded, in spite of their theological nihilism, that the ideas of justice and truth and holiness and love are realities. They cherish an enthusiastic devotion to the first principles of morality. Through these they see, or seem to see, darkly, and in a figure, that the soul is immortal.

11. Given the "weakness of human understanding and the uncertainty of the subject," we tend to believe that fewer words are better. As death approaches, there's not much said; good people are too honest to leave this world claiming to know more than they do. There’s probably no significant topic about which, at any time, even religious folks talk so little with each other. In the fullness of life, thoughts of death are usually sparked by witnessing or remembering the deaths of others rather than contemplating our own. We must also recognize that there are varying degrees of belief in immortality, and many ways it presents itself in our minds. Some people will only say that they trust in God and leave everything to Him. A significant part of true religion is not pretending to know more than we actually do. Others find comfort in the hope that "they will see and know their friends in heaven" when they leave this world. However, it's better to hand them over to God and trust that "no evil shall touch them." Then there are those who no longer see meaning in the belief of a divine personality; yet they are sure that this life isn't all there is, and that something beyond remains for us, "and something better for the good than for the evil." They are convinced, despite their theological nihilism, that concepts like justice, truth, holiness, and love are real. They hold an enthusiastic devotion to the fundamental principles of morality. Through these, they see, or believe they see, dimly and in a figure, that the soul is immortal.

But besides differences of theological opinion which must ever prevail about things unseen, the hope of immortality is weaker or stronger in men at one time of life than at another; it even varies from day to day. It comes and goes; the mind, like the sky, is apt to be overclouded. Other generations of men may have sometimes lived under an 'eclipse of faith,' to us the total disappearance of it might be compared to the 'sun falling from heaven.' And we may sometimes have to begin again and acquire the belief for ourselves; or to win it back again when it is lost. It is really weakest in the hour of death. For Nature, like a kind mother or nurse, lays us to sleep without frightening us; physicians, who are the witnesses of such scenes, say that under ordinary circumstances there is no fear of the future. Often, as Plato tells us, death is accompanied 'with pleasure.' (Tim.) When the end is still uncertain, the cry of many a one has been, 'Pray, that I may be taken.' The last thoughts even of the best men depend chiefly on the accidents of their bodily state. Pain soon overpowers the desire of life; old age, like the child, is laid to sleep almost in a moment. The long experience of life will often destroy the interest which mankind have in it. So various are the feelings with which different persons draw near to death; and still more various the forms in which imagination clothes it. For this alternation of feeling compare the Old Testament,—Psalm vi.; Isaiah; Eccles.

But aside from the differences in theological beliefs that will always exist about unseen things, people's hope for immortality can be stronger or weaker at different times in life; it even changes from day to day. It comes and goes; the mind, much like the sky, can become clouded. Other generations may have occasionally lived through a 'crisis of faith,' but for us, the complete absence of faith would feel like the 'sun falling from the sky.' Sometimes, we have to start over and find belief for ourselves, or reclaim it when we lose it. It is often at its weakest during the hour of death. Nature, like a caring mother or nurse, gently puts us to sleep without scaring us; doctors, who witness these moments, say that usually, there is no fear of what lies ahead. Often, as Plato notes, death can even be accompanied 'by pleasure.' (Tim.) When the end is still uncertain, many have cried out, 'Please, let me go.' The final thoughts of even the best individuals largely depend on their physical condition. Pain quickly overwhelms the will to live; old age, much like a child, can be put to sleep in an instant. A long life can often diminish the interest people have in it. The emotions people feel as they approach death can be so varied, and even more diverse are the ways imagination depicts it. To explore this shift in feelings, compare the Old Testament—Psalm vi.; Isaiah; Eccles.

12. When we think of God and of man in his relation to God; of the imperfection of our present state and yet of the progress which is observable in the history of the world and of the human mind; of the depth and power of our moral ideas which seem to partake of the very nature of God Himself; when we consider the contrast between the physical laws to which we are subject and the higher law which raises us above them and is yet a part of them; when we reflect on our capacity of becoming the 'spectators of all time and all existence,' and of framing in our own minds the ideal of a perfect Being; when we see how the human mind in all the higher religions of the world, including Buddhism, notwithstanding some aberrations, has tended towards such a belief—we have reason to think that our destiny is different from that of animals; and though we cannot altogether shut out the childish fear that the soul upon leaving the body may 'vanish into thin air,' we have still, so far as the nature of the subject admits, a hope of immortality with which we comfort ourselves on sufficient grounds. The denial of the belief takes the heart out of human life; it lowers men to the level of the material. As Goethe also says, 'He is dead even in this world who has no belief in another.'

12. When we think about God and our relationship with Him; about the imperfections of our current state and the progress evident in the history of the world and human thought; about the depth and strength of our moral ideas that seem to reflect the very nature of God Himself; when we consider the contrast between the physical laws we follow and the higher law that lifts us above them while still being part of them; when we ponder our ability to become 'spectators of all time and all existence' and to create in our minds the idea of a perfect Being; when we notice how the human mind in all the major religions of the world, including Buddhism, despite some deviations, has moved toward this belief—we have reason to believe that our fate is different from that of animals. And while we can't completely shake off the childlike fear that the soul might 'vanish into thin air' after leaving the body, we still have, as much as the nature of the topic allows, a hope for immortality that provides us comfort on solid grounds. Rejecting this belief drains the meaning out of human life; it reduces people to a purely material existence. As Goethe also said, 'He is dead even in this world who has no belief in another.'

13. It is well also that we should sometimes think of the forms of thought under which the idea of immortality is most naturally presented to us. It is clear that to our minds the risen soul can no longer be described, as in a picture, by the symbol of a creature half-bird, half-human, nor in any other form of sense. The multitude of angels, as in Milton, singing the Almighty's praises, are a noble image, and may furnish a theme for the poet or the painter, but they are no longer an adequate expression of the kingdom of God which is within us. Neither is there any mansion, in this world or another, in which the departed can be imagined to dwell and carry on their occupations. When this earthly tabernacle is dissolved, no other habitation or building can take them in: it is in the language of ideas only that we speak of them.

13. It's also important that we occasionally reflect on the ways we think about the idea of immortality. It’s clear that we can no longer describe a risen soul, like in art, as something half-bird and half-human, or any other concrete form. The image of countless angels, like in Milton, singing praises to the Almighty is a beautiful picture and can inspire poets and painters, but it no longer fully represents the kingdom of God that's within us. There’s also no building, in this world or any other, where those who have passed can be imagined to live and continue their activities. When this earthly body breaks down, no other dwelling or structure can accommodate them: we can only speak of them in the language of ideas.

First of all there is the thought of rest and freedom from pain; they have gone home, as the common saying is, and the cares of this world touch them no more. Secondly, we may imagine them as they were at their best and brightest, humbly fulfilling their daily round of duties—selfless, childlike, unaffected by the world; when the eye was single and the whole body seemed to be full of light; when the mind was clear and saw into the purposes of God. Thirdly, we may think of them as possessed by a great love of God and man, working out His will at a further stage in the heavenly pilgrimage. And yet we acknowledge that these are the things which eye hath not seen nor ear heard and therefore it hath not entered into the heart of man in any sensible manner to conceive them. Fourthly, there may have been some moments in our own lives when we have risen above ourselves, or been conscious of our truer selves, in which the will of God has superseded our wills, and we have entered into communion with Him, and been partakers for a brief season of the Divine truth and love, in which like Christ we have been inspired to utter the prayer, 'I in them, and thou in me, that we may be all made perfect in one.' These precious moments, if we have ever known them, are the nearest approach which we can make to the idea of immortality.

First of all, there's the thought of rest and freedom from pain; they have gone home, as the saying goes, and the worries of this world no longer affect them. Secondly, we can picture them at their best and brightest, humbly carrying out their daily responsibilities—selfless, childlike, and untouched by the world; when their eyes were clear and their whole being was full of light; when their minds were clear and understood God's purposes. Thirdly, we might think of them as filled with a deep love for God and humanity, carrying out His will at a further stage in their heavenly journey. Yet, we recognize that these are things that no eye has seen and no ear has heard, and therefore they haven't entered into the hearts of people in any real way to comprehend them. Fourthly, there may have been moments in our own lives when we rose above ourselves or were aware of our true selves, when God's will took over our own, and we felt a connection with Him, sharing in His divine truth and love, inspiring us, like Christ, to pray, 'I in them, and you in me, that we may all be made perfect in one.' Those precious moments, if we have experienced them, are the closest we can get to the idea of immortality.

14. Returning now to the earlier stage of human thought which is represented by the writings of Plato, we find that many of the same questions have already arisen: there is the same tendency to materialism; the same inconsistency in the application of the idea of mind; the same doubt whether the soul is to be regarded as a cause or as an effect; the same falling back on moral convictions. In the Phaedo the soul is conscious of her divine nature, and the separation from the body which has been commenced in this life is perfected in another. Beginning in mystery, Socrates, in the intermediate part of the Dialogue, attempts to bring the doctrine of a future life into connection with his theory of knowledge. In proportion as he succeeds in this, the individual seems to disappear in a more general notion of the soul; the contemplation of ideas 'under the form of eternity' takes the place of past and future states of existence. His language may be compared to that of some modern philosophers, who speak of eternity, not in the sense of perpetual duration of time, but as an ever-present quality of the soul. Yet at the conclusion of the Dialogue, having 'arrived at the end of the intellectual world' (Republic), he replaces the veil of mythology, and describes the soul and her attendant genius in the language of the mysteries or of a disciple of Zoroaster. Nor can we fairly demand of Plato a consistency which is wanting among ourselves, who acknowledge that another world is beyond the range of human thought, and yet are always seeking to represent the mansions of heaven or hell in the colours of the painter, or in the descriptions of the poet or rhetorician.

14. Now, looking back at the earlier stage of human thought represented in the writings of Plato, we see that many of the same questions have already come up: there's a similar tendency toward materialism, the same inconsistencies in how the concept of mind is applied, the same doubts about whether the soul should be seen as a cause or an effect, and a similar reliance on moral beliefs. In the Phaedo, the soul is aware of its divine nature, and the separation from the body that starts in this life is completed in another. Starting with mystery, Socrates, in the middle of the Dialogue, tries to connect the idea of an afterlife with his theory of knowledge. As he becomes more successful in this, the individual seems to fade into a broader concept of the soul; contemplating ideas "in the form of eternity" replaces thoughts of past and future states of existence. His language can be likened to that of some modern philosophers who discuss eternity not as endless time but as a constant characteristic of the soul. However, by the end of the Dialogue, having "arrived at the end of the intellectual world" (Republic), he pulls back the veil of mythology and describes the soul and its guiding spirit using the language of mysteries or that of a follower of Zoroaster. We cannot fairly expect Plato to have a consistency that is often lacking in us, who acknowledge that another world is beyond human understanding yet continually try to depict the realms of heaven or hell using vivid descriptions by painters, poets, or rhetoricians.

15. The doctrine of the immortality of the soul was not new to the Greeks in the age of Socrates, but, like the unity of God, had a foundation in the popular belief. The old Homeric notion of a gibbering ghost flitting away to Hades; or of a few illustrious heroes enjoying the isles of the blest; or of an existence divided between the two; or the Hesiodic, of righteous spirits, who become guardian angels,—had given place in the mysteries and the Orphic poets to representations, partly fanciful, of a future state of rewards and punishments. (Laws.) The reticence of the Greeks on public occasions and in some part of their literature respecting this 'underground' religion, is not to be taken as a measure of the diffusion of such beliefs. If Pericles in the funeral oration is silent on the consolations of immortality, the poet Pindar and the tragedians on the other hand constantly assume the continued existence of the dead in an upper or under world. Darius and Laius are still alive; Antigone will be dear to her brethren after death; the way to the palace of Cronos is found by those who 'have thrice departed from evil.' The tragedy of the Greeks is not 'rounded' by this life, but is deeply set in decrees of fate and mysterious workings of powers beneath the earth. In the caricature of Aristophanes there is also a witness to the common sentiment. The Ionian and Pythagorean philosophies arose, and some new elements were added to the popular belief. The individual must find an expression as well as the world. Either the soul was supposed to exist in the form of a magnet, or of a particle of fire, or of light, or air, or water; or of a number or of a harmony of number; or to be or have, like the stars, a principle of motion (Arist. de Anim.). At length Anaxagoras, hardly distinguishing between life and mind, or between mind human and divine, attained the pure abstraction; and this, like the other abstractions of Greek philosophy, sank deep into the human intelligence. The opposition of the intelligible and the sensible, and of God to the world, supplied an analogy which assisted in the separation of soul and body. If ideas were separable from phenomena, mind was also separable from matter; if the ideas were eternal, the mind that conceived them was eternal too. As the unity of God was more distinctly acknowledged, the conception of the human soul became more developed. The succession, or alternation of life and death, had occurred to Heracleitus. The Eleatic Parmenides had stumbled upon the modern thesis, that 'thought and being are the same.' The Eastern belief in transmigration defined the sense of individuality; and some, like Empedocles, fancied that the blood which they had shed in another state of being was crying against them, and that for thirty thousand years they were to be 'fugitives and vagabonds upon the earth.' The desire of recognizing a lost mother or love or friend in the world below (Phaedo) was a natural feeling which, in that age as well as in every other, has given distinctness to the hope of immortality. Nor were ethical considerations wanting, partly derived from the necessity of punishing the greater sort of criminals, whom no avenging power of this world could reach. The voice of conscience, too, was heard reminding the good man that he was not altogether innocent. (Republic.) To these indistinct longings and fears an expression was given in the mysteries and Orphic poets: a 'heap of books' (Republic), passing under the names of Musaeus and Orpheus in Plato's time, were filled with notions of an under-world.

15. The belief in the immortality of the soul wasn't new to the Greeks during Socrates' time; it was rooted in popular belief, much like the idea of a single God. The old Homeric view of a wandering ghost going to Hades, or a select few heroes enjoying paradise, or a life split between the two, or the Hesiodic belief in righteous souls becoming guardian angels, was replaced by more imaginative concepts of an afterlife filled with rewards and punishments found in the mysteries and Orphic poetry. (Laws.) The Greeks' reluctance to openly discuss this 'underground' religion in public and in some literature doesn't indicate a lack of belief in it. While Pericles didn't mention the comfort of immortality in his funeral oration, poets like Pindar and the tragedians frequently accepted the ongoing existence of the dead in a higher or lower realm. Darius and Laius are still alive; Antigone will remain beloved by her siblings after death; those who have “turned from evil three times” will find the way to the palace of Cronos. Greek tragedy isn't finalized by this life; it's deeply rooted in the fate's decrees and mysterious forces beneath the earth. Aristophanes' satire also reflects the shared belief. The Ionian and Pythagorean philosophies emerged, introducing new ideas into the popular belief. Individuals needed a voice, just like the world did. The soul was thought to exist as a magnet, a spark of fire, light, air, or water; or as a number or harmony of numbers; or, like the stars, had a principle of motion (Arist. de Anim.). Eventually, Anaxagoras, merging life and mind, and blurring the lines between human and divine intellect, reached a pure abstraction; this, like other Greek philosophical ideas, deeply influenced human thought. The distinction between the intelligible and the sensible, and God and the world, provided a framework for separating soul from body. If ideas could be separated from our perceptions, then the mind could also be viewed as separate from the physical. If the ideas were eternal, then the mind that grasped them was eternal as well. As the concept of a singular God became clearer, the idea of the human soul evolved further. The cycle of life and death was recognized by Heracleitus. The Eleatic Parmenides proposed the modern idea that 'thought and being are the same.' The Eastern belief in reincarnation emphasized individuality; some, like Empedocles, believed that the blood they had shed in previous lives was crying out against them, and that they would be 'fugitives and vagabonds on earth' for thirty thousand years. The longing to reconnect with a lost mother, love, or friend in the afterlife (Phaedo) was a natural feeling that has always highlighted the hope of immortality. Ethical concerns were also present, partly stemming from the need to punish serious criminals whom no earthly force could reach. The voice of conscience also reminded the good person that they weren't completely innocent. (Republic.) These vague desires and fears were expressed in the mysteries and Orphic poetry: a 'heap of books' (Republic), attributed to Musaeus and Orpheus in Plato's era, was filled with ideas about the underworld.

16. Yet after all the belief in the individuality of the soul after death had but a feeble hold on the Greek mind. Like the personality of God, the personality of man in a future state was not inseparably bound up with the reality of his existence. For the distinction between the personal and impersonal, and also between the divine and human, was far less marked to the Greek than to ourselves. And as Plato readily passes from the notion of the good to that of God, he also passes almost imperceptibly to himself and his reader from the future life of the individual soul to the eternal being of the absolute soul. There has been a clearer statement and a clearer denial of the belief in modern times than is found in early Greek philosophy, and hence the comparative silence on the whole subject which is often remarked in ancient writers, and particularly in Aristotle. For Plato and Aristotle are not further removed in their teaching about the immortality of the soul than they are in their theory of knowledge.

16. However, the belief in the individuality of the soul after death had only a weak grip on the Greek mind. Like the personality of God, the personality of man in an afterlife wasn't necessarily tied to the reality of his existence. The distinction between the personal and impersonal, as well as between the divine and human, was much less clear to the Greeks than it is for us. Just as Plato easily moves from the idea of the good to that of God, he also transitions almost seamlessly from the future life of the individual soul to the eternal existence of the absolute soul. There has been a more explicit affirmation and denial of the belief in modern times than what is found in early Greek philosophy, which explains the relative silence on the topic often noted in ancient writers, especially Aristotle. Plato and Aristotle are not significantly different in their teachings about the immortality of the soul compared to their theories of knowledge.

17. Living in an age when logic was beginning to mould human thought, Plato naturally cast his belief in immortality into a logical form. And when we consider how much the doctrine of ideas was also one of words, it is not surprising that he should have fallen into verbal fallacies: early logic is always mistaking the truth of the form for the truth of the matter. It is easy to see that the alternation of opposites is not the same as the generation of them out of each other; and that the generation of them out of each other, which is the first argument in the Phaedo, is at variance with their mutual exclusion of each other, whether in themselves or in us, which is the last. For even if we admit the distinction which he draws between the opposites and the things which have the opposites, still individuals fall under the latter class; and we have to pass out of the region of human hopes and fears to a conception of an abstract soul which is the impersonation of the ideas. Such a conception, which in Plato himself is but half expressed, is unmeaning to us, and relative only to a particular stage in the history of thought. The doctrine of reminiscence is also a fragment of a former world, which has no place in the philosophy of modern times. But Plato had the wonders of psychology just opening to him, and he had not the explanation of them which is supplied by the analysis of language and the history of the human mind. The question, 'Whence come our abstract ideas?' he could only answer by an imaginary hypothesis. Nor is it difficult to see that his crowning argument is purely verbal, and is but the expression of an instinctive confidence put into a logical form:—'The soul is immortal because it contains a principle of imperishableness.' Nor does he himself seem at all to be aware that nothing is added to human knowledge by his 'safe and simple answer,' that beauty is the cause of the beautiful; and that he is merely reasserting the Eleatic being 'divided by the Pythagorean numbers,' against the Heracleitean doctrine of perpetual generation. The answer to the 'very serious question' of generation and destruction is really the denial of them. For this he would substitute, as in the Republic, a system of ideas, tested, not by experience, but by their consequences, and not explained by actual causes, but by a higher, that is, a more general notion. Consistency with themselves is the only test which is to be applied to them. (Republic, and Phaedo.)

17. Living in a time when logic was starting to shape human thought, Plato naturally framed his belief in immortality in a logical way. And when we consider how much the doctrine of ideas also depended on language, it’s not surprising that he fell into verbal mistakes: early logic often confuses the truth of the structure with the truth of the content. It’s clear that the shift between opposites isn’t the same as them being created from one another; and that creating them from each other, which is the first argument in the Phaedo, conflicts with their mutual exclusion, whether in themselves or in us, which is the last argument. Even if we acknowledge the distinction he makes between opposites and the things that have opposites, individuals still belong to the latter category; and we need to move beyond human hopes and fears to grasp the idea of an abstract soul that embodies the ideas. This idea, which Plato himself only partially articulates, feels meaningless to us and is only relevant to a specific moment in the evolution of thought. The doctrine of reminiscence is another piece of an old worldview that doesn’t fit into modern philosophy. However, Plato was just beginning to explore the wonders of psychology and lacked the explanations provided by language analysis and human mental history. He could only answer the question, 'Where do our abstract ideas come from?' with an imaginary hypothesis. It’s also easy to see that his main argument is purely verbal, reflecting an instinctive confidence presented in a logical way: 'The soul is immortal because it has a principle of being unchanging.' He doesn’t seem to realize that his 'safe and simple answer,' that beauty causes the beautiful, doesn’t add to human knowledge; he’s just reiterating the Eleatic idea 'divided by the Pythagorean numbers,' against Heraclitus's concept of constant generation. The answer to the 'very serious question' of generation and destruction is actually the denial of both. For this, he would propose, as in the Republic, a system of ideas that is evaluated not by experience but by their outcomes, and not explained by real causes but by a broader, more general concept. Consistency with themselves is the only standard that should be applied to them. (Republic, and Phaedo.)

18. To deal fairly with such arguments, they should be translated as far as possible into their modern equivalents. 'If the ideas of men are eternal, their souls are eternal, and if not the ideas, then not the souls.' Such an argument stands nearly in the same relation to Plato and his age, as the argument from the existence of God to immortality among ourselves. 'If God exists, then the soul exists after death; and if there is no God, there is no existence of the soul after death.' For the ideas are to his mind the reality, the truth, the principle of permanence, as well as of intelligence and order in the world. When Simmias and Cebes say that they are more strongly persuaded of the existence of ideas than they are of the immortality of the soul, they represent fairly enough the order of thought in Greek philosophy. And we might say in the same way that we are more certain of the existence of God than we are of the immortality of the soul, and are led by the belief in the one to a belief in the other. The parallel, as Socrates would say, is not perfect, but agrees in as far as the mind in either case is regarded as dependent on something above and beyond herself. The analogy may even be pressed a step further: 'We are more certain of our ideas of truth and right than we are of the existence of God, and are led on in the order of thought from one to the other.' Or more correctly: 'The existence of right and truth is the existence of God, and can never for a moment be separated from Him.'

18. To fairly address these arguments, they should be translated into their modern equivalents as much as possible. 'If human ideas are eternal, then so are their souls; and if the ideas aren’t eternal, then neither are the souls.' This argument is similar to the one linking the existence of God to immortality in our own context. 'If God exists, then the soul continues after death; and if there is no God, then the soul doesn’t exist after death.' For him, ideas represent reality, truth, and the principle of permanence, as well as intelligence and order in the world. When Simmias and Cebes express that they are more convinced of the existence of ideas than of the soul’s immortality, they accurately reflect the line of thought in Greek philosophy. We could similarly say that we are more certain of God’s existence than of the immortality of the soul, and our belief in one leads us to belief in the other. The parallel, as Socrates would say, isn't perfect, but it aligns in that the mind in both cases is viewed as relying on something greater than itself. The analogy can be taken a step further: 'We are more certain of our ideas of truth and right than we are of God’s existence, and we follow the thought process from one to the other.' Or more accurately: 'The existence of right and truth is the existence of God, and they can never be separated from Him, even for a moment.'

19. The main argument of the Phaedo is derived from the existence of eternal ideas of which the soul is a partaker; the other argument of the alternation of opposites is replaced by this. And there have not been wanting philosophers of the idealist school who have imagined that the doctrine of the immortality of the soul is a theory of knowledge, and that in what has preceded Plato is accommodating himself to the popular belief. Such a view can only be elicited from the Phaedo by what may be termed the transcendental method of interpretation, and is obviously inconsistent with the Gorgias and the Republic. Those who maintain it are immediately compelled to renounce the shadow which they have grasped, as a play of words only. But the truth is, that Plato in his argument for the immortality of the soul has collected many elements of proof or persuasion, ethical and mythological as well as dialectical, which are not easily to be reconciled with one another; and he is as much in earnest about his doctrine of retribution, which is repeated in all his more ethical writings, as about his theory of knowledge. And while we may fairly translate the dialectical into the language of Hegel, and the religious and mythological into the language of Dante or Bunyan, the ethical speaks to us still in the same voice, and appeals to a common feeling.

19. The main argument of the Phaedo comes from the idea that eternal concepts exist, of which the soul is a participant; this replaces the argument about the alternation of opposites. Some philosophers from the idealist school have suggested that the belief in the immortality of the soul is a theory about knowledge, arguing that Plato was trying to align himself with popular beliefs. This perspective can only be drawn from the Phaedo using what we might call a transcendental interpretation method, and it clearly conflicts with the arguments presented in the Gorgias and the Republic. Those who hold this view are quickly forced to give up the mere illusion they’ve grasped, realizing it's just wordplay. The reality is that in making his case for the immortality of the soul, Plato has gathered various elements of evidence or persuasion—ethical, mythological, and dialectical—that are not easily aligned with each other; he is just as serious about his doctrine of retribution, which he reiterates in all his ethical writings, as he is about his theory of knowledge. While we can reasonably express the dialectical concepts in Hegel's terms, and the religious and mythological ideas in the language of Dante or Bunyan, the ethical messages still resonate with us in the same way and appeal to a shared sense of understanding.

20. Two arguments of this ethical character occur in the Phaedo. The first may be described as the aspiration of the soul after another state of being. Like the Oriental or Christian mystic, the philosopher is seeking to withdraw from impurities of sense, to leave the world and the things of the world, and to find his higher self. Plato recognizes in these aspirations the foretaste of immortality; as Butler and Addison in modern times have argued, the one from the moral tendencies of mankind, the other from the progress of the soul towards perfection. In using this argument Plato has certainly confused the soul which has left the body, with the soul of the good and wise. (Compare Republic.) Such a confusion was natural, and arose partly out of the antithesis of soul and body. The soul in her own essence, and the soul 'clothed upon' with virtues and graces, were easily interchanged with one another, because on a subject which passes expression the distinctions of language can hardly be maintained.

20. Two ethical arguments in the Phaedo stand out. The first can be described as the soul's desire for another state of existence. Like the mystics of the East or Christian tradition, the philosopher seeks to rise above the distractions of the physical world and connect with a higher self. Plato sees these yearnings as a glimpse of immortality; just as Butler and Addison have argued in more recent times, one based on humanity’s moral tendencies and the other on the soul’s journey towards perfection. In using this argument, Plato has certainly mixed up the soul that has left the body with the soul of the good and wise. (See Republic.) This confusion was natural and partly stemmed from the contrast between soul and body. The soul in its true essence and the soul 'dressed up' with virtues and qualities were easily confused because it’s a topic that goes beyond words, making it hard to maintain clear distinctions in language.

21. The ethical proof of the immortality of the soul is derived from the necessity of retribution. The wicked would be too well off if their evil deeds came to an end. It is not to be supposed that an Ardiaeus, an Archelaus, an Ismenias could ever have suffered the penalty of their crimes in this world. The manner in which this retribution is accomplished Plato represents under the figures of mythology. Doubtless he felt that it was easier to improve than to invent, and that in religion especially the traditional form was required in order to give verisimilitude to the myth. The myth too is far more probable to that age than to ours, and may fairly be regarded as 'one guess among many' about the nature of the earth, which he cleverly supports by the indications of geology. Not that he insists on the absolute truth of his own particular notions: 'no man of sense will be confident in such matters; but he will be confident that something of the kind is true.' As in other passages (Gorg., Tim., compare Crito), he wins belief for his fictions by the moderation of his statements; he does not, like Dante or Swedenborg, allow himself to be deceived by his own creations.

21. The ethical argument for the immortality of the soul comes from the need for justice. The wicked would be too lucky if their evil actions just ended. It’s hard to believe that someone like Ardiaeus, Archelaus, or Ismenias could ever face the consequences of their crimes in this life. Plato expresses how this justice is carried out using mythological stories. He likely thought it was easier to improve upon existing ideas than to come up with entirely new ones, and especially in religion, a traditional format is necessary to make the myth believable. The myth also makes more sense in his time than in ours and can be seen as "one guess among many" regarding the nature of the earth, which he cleverly supports with geological evidence. He doesn’t claim that his specific ideas are absolutely true: "no sensible person will be sure about such things; but they will feel confident that something like it is true." As in other passages (Gorg., Tim., compare Crito), he earns belief in his stories by being moderate in his claims; he doesn’t, like Dante or Swedenborg, let himself be misled by his own inventions.

The Dialogue must be read in the light of the situation. And first of all we are struck by the calmness of the scene. Like the spectators at the time, we cannot pity Socrates; his mien and his language are so noble and fearless. He is the same that he ever was, but milder and gentler, and he has in no degree lost his interest in dialectics; he will not forego the delight of an argument in compliance with the jailer's intimation that he should not heat himself with talking. At such a time he naturally expresses the hope of his life, that he has been a true mystic and not a mere retainer or wand-bearer: and he refers to passages of his personal history. To his old enemies the Comic poets, and to the proceedings on the trial, he alludes playfully; but he vividly remembers the disappointment which he felt in reading the books of Anaxagoras. The return of Xanthippe and his children indicates that the philosopher is not 'made of oak or rock.' Some other traits of his character may be noted; for example, the courteous manner in which he inclines his head to the last objector, or the ironical touch, 'Me already, as the tragic poet would say, the voice of fate calls;' or the depreciation of the arguments with which 'he comforted himself and them;' or his fear of 'misology;' or his references to Homer; or the playful smile with which he 'talks like a book' about greater and less; or the allusion to the possibility of finding another teacher among barbarous races (compare Polit.); or the mysterious reference to another science (mathematics?) of generation and destruction for which he is vainly feeling. There is no change in him; only now he is invested with a sort of sacred character, as the prophet or priest of Apollo the God of the festival, in whose honour he first of all composes a hymn, and then like the swan pours forth his dying lay. Perhaps the extreme elevation of Socrates above his own situation, and the ordinary interests of life (compare his jeu d'esprit about his burial, in which for a moment he puts on the 'Silenus mask'), create in the mind of the reader an impression stronger than could be derived from arguments that such a one has in him 'a principle which does not admit of death.'

The Dialogue should be understood in the context of the situation. First, we're struck by the calmness of the scene. Like the audience at the time, we can't feel pity for Socrates; his demeanor and words are so noble and fearless. He is just as he has always been, but softer and gentler, and he hasn't lost his interest in debate; he refuses to give up the joy of arguing just because the jailer suggests he shouldn't exhaust himself by talking. At such a moment, he naturally expresses his hope in life, that he has been a true mystic and not just a servant or a bearer of a staff: he references moments from his own history. He playfully alludes to his old enemies, the comic poets, and to the trial proceedings, but he clearly remembers the disappointment he felt reading Anaxagoras's books. The return of Xanthippe and his children shows that the philosopher is not 'made of oak or rock.' Some other aspects of his character stand out; for instance, the polite way he nods to the last person who objects, or his ironic statement, 'Me already, as the tragic poet would say, the voice of fate calls;' or his minimizing of the arguments with which he 'comforted himself and them;' or his fear of 'misology;' or his references to Homer; or the playful smile with which he 'talks like a book' about greater and lesser things; or the mention of the possibility of finding another teacher among barbarous races (see Polit.); or the mysterious reference to another science (mathematics?) of creation and destruction for which he is searching in vain. There is no change in him; now he is wrapped in a kind of sacred character, like a prophet or priest of Apollo, the God of the festival, for whom he first composes a hymn, and then, like a swan, pours out his dying song. Perhaps Socrates's high elevation above his own situation and the ordinary interests of life (consider his playful comment about his burial, where he momentarily wears the 'Silenus mask') creates a stronger impression in the reader's mind than any arguments could convey, suggesting that such a person holds within him 'a principle which does not admit of death.'

The other persons of the Dialogue may be considered under two heads: (1) private friends; (2) the respondents in the argument.

The other people in the Dialogue can be categorized into two groups: (1) close friends; (2) the participants in the discussion.

First there is Crito, who has been already introduced to us in the Euthydemus and the Crito; he is the equal in years of Socrates, and stands in quite a different relation to him from his younger disciples. He is a man of the world who is rich and prosperous (compare the jest in the Euthydemus), the best friend of Socrates, who wants to know his commands, in whose presence he talks to his family, and who performs the last duty of closing his eyes. It is observable too that, as in the Euthydemus, Crito shows no aptitude for philosophical discussions. Nor among the friends of Socrates must the jailer be forgotten, who seems to have been introduced by Plato in order to show the impression made by the extraordinary man on the common. The gentle nature of the man is indicated by his weeping at the announcement of his errand and then turning away, and also by the words of Socrates to his disciples: 'How charming the man is! since I have been in prison he has been always coming to me, and is as good as could be to me.' We are reminded too that he has retained this gentle nature amid scenes of death and violence by the contrasts which he draws between the behaviour of Socrates and of others when about to die.

First, we have Crito, who we've already met in the Euthydemus and the Crito; he is the same age as Socrates and has a very different relationship with him compared to his younger followers. He is a worldly man who is wealthy and successful (see the joke in the Euthydemus), the closest friend of Socrates, who wants to know what he needs to do, in whose presence Socrates speaks to his family, and who performs the final act of closing his eyes. It’s also noticeable that, as in the Euthydemus, Crito shows no talent for philosophical discussions. We must not forget the jailer among Socrates' friends; he seems to be introduced by Plato to illustrate the impact of this extraordinary man on ordinary people. The jailer's gentle nature is shown by his tears at the announcement of his duty and then his turning away, as well as by Socrates’ words to his disciples: ‘How charming the man is! Since I’ve been in prison, he has been constantly visiting me and has been as kind as can be.’ We are also reminded that he has kept this gentle nature even amid death and violence by the contrasts he makes between Socrates' behavior and that of others when facing death.

Another person who takes no part in the philosophical discussion is the excitable Apollodorus, the same who, in the Symposium, of which he is the narrator, is called 'the madman,' and who testifies his grief by the most violent emotions. Phaedo is also present, the 'beloved disciple' as he may be termed, who is described, if not 'leaning on his bosom,' as seated next to Socrates, who is playing with his hair. He too, like Apollodorus, takes no part in the discussion, but he loves above all things to hear and speak of Socrates after his death. The calmness of his behaviour, veiling his face when he can no longer restrain his tears, contrasts with the passionate outcries of the other. At a particular point the argument is described as falling before the attack of Simmias. A sort of despair is introduced in the minds of the company. The effect of this is heightened by the description of Phaedo, who has been the eye-witness of the scene, and by the sympathy of his Phliasian auditors who are beginning to think 'that they too can never trust an argument again.' And the intense interest of the company is communicated not only to the first auditors, but to us who in a distant country read the narrative of their emotions after more than two thousand years have passed away.

Another person who isn’t part of the philosophical discussion is the excitable Apollodorus, the same one who, in the Symposium where he narrates, is called 'the madman,' and who expresses his grief through intense emotions. Phaedo is also there, the 'beloved disciple,' as he might be called, described, if not 'leaning on his bosom,' as sitting next to Socrates, who is playing with his hair. Like Apollodorus, he doesn’t engage in the discussion, but he loves to hear and talk about Socrates after his death. His calm demeanor, covering his face when he can no longer hold back his tears, contrasts with the passionate cries of the others. At one point, the argument is depicted as collapsing under Simmias’s attack. A sort of despair begins to settle over the group. This is intensified by Phaedo's account, who witnessed the scene, and by the sympathy of his listeners from Phlius, who start to feel that 'they too can never trust an argument again.' The deep interest of the group is not only felt by the original audience but also reaches us, even after more than two thousand years have passed, as we read the narrative of their emotions.

The two principal interlocutors are Simmias and Cebes, the disciples of Philolaus the Pythagorean philosopher of Thebes. Simmias is described in the Phaedrus as fonder of an argument than any man living; and Cebes, although finally persuaded by Socrates, is said to be the most incredulous of human beings. It is Cebes who at the commencement of the Dialogue asks why 'suicide is held to be unlawful,' and who first supplies the doctrine of recollection in confirmation of the pre-existence of the soul. It is Cebes who urges that the pre-existence does not necessarily involve the future existence of the soul, as is shown by the illustration of the weaver and his coat. Simmias, on the other hand, raises the question about harmony and the lyre, which is naturally put into the mouth of a Pythagorean disciple. It is Simmias, too, who first remarks on the uncertainty of human knowledge, and only at last concedes to the argument such a qualified approval as is consistent with the feebleness of the human faculties. Cebes is the deeper and more consecutive thinker, Simmias more superficial and rhetorical; they are distinguished in much the same manner as Adeimantus and Glaucon in the Republic.

The two main discussants are Simmias and Cebes, the students of Philolaus, the Pythagorean philosopher from Thebes. Simmias is described in the Phaedrus as being more fond of an argument than anyone else alive, while Cebes, although eventually convinced by Socrates, is considered the most skeptical person ever. It’s Cebes who starts the Dialogue by asking why ‘suicide is considered unlawful,’ and who first presents the theory of recollection to support the idea of the soul’s pre-existence. Cebes also argues that pre-existence doesn’t necessarily mean the soul will exist in the future, illustrated by the example of a weaver and his coat. Simmias, on the other hand, raises the point about harmony and the lyre, which fits a Pythagorean disciple perfectly. Simmias also comments on the uncertainty of human knowledge, and ultimately gives the argument only a limited acceptance that reflects the weakness of human understanding. Cebes is the more profound and logical thinker, while Simmias is more superficial and rhetorical; they are differentiated in much the same way as Adeimantus and Glaucon in the Republic.

Other persons, Menexenus, Ctesippus, Lysis, are old friends; Evenus has been already satirized in the Apology; Aeschines and Epigenes were present at the trial; Euclid and Terpsion will reappear in the Introduction to the Theaetetus, Hermogenes has already appeared in the Cratylus. No inference can fairly be drawn from the absence of Aristippus, nor from the omission of Xenophon, who at the time of Socrates' death was in Asia. The mention of Plato's own absence seems like an expression of sorrow, and may, perhaps, be an indication that the report of the conversation is not to be taken literally.

Other people, Menexenus, Ctesippus, and Lysis, are old friends; Evenus has already been mocked in the Apology; Aeschines and Epigenes were at the trial; Euclid and Terpsion will show up again in the Introduction to the Theaetetus, and Hermogenes has already appeared in the Cratylus. No conclusions can fairly be drawn from Aristippus's absence or from the mention of Xenophon, who was in Asia when Socrates died. The mention of Plato's own absence seems to express sorrow and may suggest that the account of the conversation shouldn't be taken literally.

The place of the Dialogue in the series is doubtful. The doctrine of ideas is certainly carried beyond the Socratic point of view; in no other of the writings of Plato is the theory of them so completely developed. Whether the belief in immortality can be attributed to Socrates or not is uncertain; the silence of the Memorabilia, and of the earlier Dialogues of Plato, is an argument to the contrary. Yet in the Cyropaedia Xenophon has put language into the mouth of the dying Cyrus which recalls the Phaedo, and may have been derived from the teaching of Socrates. It may be fairly urged that the greatest religious interest of mankind could not have been wholly ignored by one who passed his life in fulfilling the commands of an oracle, and who recognized a Divine plan in man and nature. (Xen. Mem.) And the language of the Apology and of the Crito confirms this view.

The position of the Dialogue in the series is uncertain. The theory of ideas definitely extends beyond the Socratic perspective; no other writings by Plato develop this theory as extensively. It's unclear if the belief in immortality can be attributed to Socrates; the silence of the Memorabilia and the earlier Dialogues of Plato supports this view. However, in the Cyropaedia, Xenophon presents words from the dying Cyrus that echo the Phaedo and might be derived from Socratic teachings. It's reasonable to argue that one who dedicated his life to obeying an oracle’s commands and who recognized a Divine plan in humans and nature couldn’t have completely ignored the deepest religious concerns of humanity. (Xen. Mem.) Additionally, the language in the Apology and Crito backs up this perspective.

The Phaedo is not one of the Socratic Dialogues of Plato; nor, on the other hand, can it be assigned to that later stage of the Platonic writings at which the doctrine of ideas appears to be forgotten. It belongs rather to the intermediate period of the Platonic philosophy, which roughly corresponds to the Phaedrus, Gorgias, Republic, Theaetetus. Without pretending to determine the real time of their composition, the Symposium, Meno, Euthyphro, Apology, Phaedo may be conveniently read by us in this order as illustrative of the life of Socrates. Another chain may be formed of the Meno, Phaedrus, Phaedo, in which the immortality of the soul is connected with the doctrine of ideas. In the Meno the theory of ideas is based on the ancient belief in transmigration, which reappears again in the Phaedrus as well as in the Republic and Timaeus, and in all of them is connected with a doctrine of retribution. In the Phaedrus the immortality of the soul is supposed to rest on the conception of the soul as a principle of motion, whereas in the Republic the argument turns on the natural continuance of the soul, which, if not destroyed by her own proper evil, can hardly be destroyed by any other. The soul of man in the Timaeus is derived from the Supreme Creator, and either returns after death to her kindred star, or descends into the lower life of an animal. The Apology expresses the same view as the Phaedo, but with less confidence; there the probability of death being a long sleep is not excluded. The Theaetetus also describes, in a digression, the desire of the soul to fly away and be with God—'and to fly to him is to be like him.' The Symposium may be observed to resemble as well as to differ from the Phaedo. While the first notion of immortality is only in the way of natural procreation or of posthumous fame and glory, the higher revelation of beauty, like the good in the Republic, is the vision of the eternal idea. So deeply rooted in Plato's mind is the belief in immortality; so various are the forms of expression which he employs.

The Phaedo is not one of Plato's Socratic Dialogues, nor can it be placed into the later phase of his writings where the theory of ideas seems to be overlooked. Instead, it fits into the middle period of Platonic philosophy, which is roughly aligned with the Phaedrus, Gorgias, Republic, and Theaetetus. Without trying to pinpoint the exact timing of their writing, we can conveniently read the Symposium, Meno, Euthyphro, Apology, and Phaedo in this order to illustrate Socrates' life. Another sequence can be made with Meno, Phaedrus, and Phaedo, linking the immortality of the soul with the theory of ideas. In the Meno, the theory of ideas is linked to the ancient belief in reincarnation, which also appears in the Phaedrus, Republic, and Timaeus, and all connect to a theme of retribution. In the Phaedrus, the immortality of the soul is thought to be based on the idea of the soul as a source of motion, while in the Republic, the argument focuses on the soul's natural persistence, which, if not harmed by its own wrongdoing, is unlikely to be destroyed by anything else. In the Timaeus, the human soul comes from the Supreme Creator, and either returns after death to its corresponding star or descends to a lower existence as an animal. The Apology shares the same perspective as the Phaedo but is less assertive; it suggests that the idea of death being a long sleep is still a possibility. The Theaetetus also digresses to describe the soul’s longing to escape and be with God, stating that "to fly to him is to be like him." The Symposium can be seen as both similar to and different from the Phaedo. While the initial concept of immortality comes through natural reproduction or posthumous reputation, the deeper revelation of beauty, akin to the good in the Republic, is the vision of the eternal idea. Plato's belief in immortality is deeply ingrained, and he expresses it in a variety of ways.

As in several other Dialogues, there is more of system in the Phaedo than appears at first sight. The succession of arguments is based on previous philosophies; beginning with the mysteries and the Heracleitean alternation of opposites, and proceeding to the Pythagorean harmony and transmigration; making a step by the aid of Platonic reminiscence, and a further step by the help of the nous of Anaxagoras; until at last we rest in the conviction that the soul is inseparable from the ideas, and belongs to the world of the invisible and unknown. Then, as in the Gorgias or Republic, the curtain falls, and the veil of mythology descends upon the argument. After the confession of Socrates that he is an interested party, and the acknowledgment that no man of sense will think the details of his narrative true, but that something of the kind is true, we return from speculation to practice. He is himself more confident of immortality than he is of his own arguments; and the confidence which he expresses is less strong than that which his cheerfulness and composure in death inspire in us.

As in several other Dialogues, there’s more structure in the Phaedo than it seems at first glance. The chain of arguments builds on earlier philosophies, starting with the mysteries and Heraclitus's idea of opposing forces, then moving to Pythagorean harmony and reincarnation; making progress through Platonic recollection and a further step through Anaxagoras's nous; until we finally come to believe that the soul is inseparable from the ideas and belongs to the realm of the invisible and unknown. Then, like in the Gorgias or Republic, the curtain falls, and the veil of mythology covers the argument. After Socrates admits that he has a vested interest and acknowledges that no sensible person will take the specifics of his narrative as true, but that something like it holds truth, we shift from speculation back to practical matters. He is more certain of immortality than of his own arguments; and the confidence he shows is less powerful than what his calmness and positivity in facing death instill in us.

Difficulties of two kinds occur in the Phaedo—one kind to be explained out of contemporary philosophy, the other not admitting of an entire solution. (1) The difficulty which Socrates says that he experienced in explaining generation and corruption; the assumption of hypotheses which proceed from the less general to the more general, and are tested by their consequences; the puzzle about greater and less; the resort to the method of ideas, which to us appear only abstract terms,—these are to be explained out of the position of Socrates and Plato in the history of philosophy. They were living in a twilight between the sensible and the intellectual world, and saw no way of connecting them. They could neither explain the relation of ideas to phenomena, nor their correlation to one another. The very idea of relation or comparison was embarrassing to them. Yet in this intellectual uncertainty they had a conception of a proof from results, and of a moral truth, which remained unshaken amid the questionings of philosophy. (2) The other is a difficulty which is touched upon in the Republic as well as in the Phaedo, and is common to modern and ancient philosophy. Plato is not altogether satisfied with his safe and simple method of ideas. He wants to have proved to him by facts that all things are for the best, and that there is one mind or design which pervades them all. But this 'power of the best' he is unable to explain; and therefore takes refuge in universal ideas. And are not we at this day seeking to discover that which Socrates in a glass darkly foresaw?

Difficulties of two kinds arise in the Phaedo—one type can be explained through contemporary philosophy, while the other doesn't have a complete solution. (1) The difficulty that Socrates mentions experiencing when discussing generation and corruption; the assumption of hypotheses that move from the less general to the more general and are tested by their outcomes; the confusion about greater and lesser; and the reliance on the method of ideas, which to us seems like only abstract terms—these can be understood in the context of Socrates and Plato's place in the history of philosophy. They lived in a gray area between the tangible and the intellectual world, and they didn’t see a way to connect the two. They couldn't clarify how ideas relate to phenomena, nor how they correlate with each other. The very notion of relation or comparison was challenging for them. Yet, amidst this intellectual uncertainty, they held onto a concept of proof based on results and a moral truth that remained steady despite philosophical questioning. (2) The other difficulty, mentioned in both the Republic and the Phaedo, is one that both modern and ancient philosophy share. Plato is not entirely satisfied with his straightforward and safe method of ideas. He wants to see proven facts that illustrate that everything is for the best and that there is one mind or design that underlies everything. However, he can’t explain this 'power of the best,' so he retreats into universal ideas. Aren't we still, today, trying to uncover what Socrates glimpsed somewhat obscurely?

Some resemblances to the Greek drama may be noted in all the Dialogues of Plato. The Phaedo is the tragedy of which Socrates is the protagonist and Simmias and Cebes the secondary performers, standing to them in the same relation as to Glaucon and Adeimantus in the Republic. No Dialogue has a greater unity of subject and feeling. Plato has certainly fulfilled the condition of Greek, or rather of all art, which requires that scenes of death and suffering should be clothed in beauty. The gathering of the friends at the commencement of the Dialogue, the dismissal of Xanthippe, whose presence would have been out of place at a philosophical discussion, but who returns again with her children to take a final farewell, the dejection of the audience at the temporary overthrow of the argument, the picture of Socrates playing with the hair of Phaedo, the final scene in which Socrates alone retains his composure—are masterpieces of art. And the chorus at the end might have interpreted the feeling of the play: 'There can no evil happen to a good man in life or death.'

Some similarities to Greek drama can be seen in all of Plato's Dialogues. The Phaedo serves as a tragedy with Socrates as the main character and Simmias and Cebes as supporting roles, similar to Glaucon and Adeimantus in the Republic. No Dialogue demonstrates a greater unity of theme and emotion. Plato has definitely met the requirement of Greek, or indeed all art, which says that scenes of death and suffering should be presented beautifully. The gathering of friends at the start of the Dialogue, the dismissal of Xanthippe—whose presence would have been inappropriate for a philosophical discussion—but who returns later with her children for a final goodbye, the audience's despair at the temporary defeat of the argument, the image of Socrates playing with Phaedo’s hair, and the final scene in which Socrates remains calm—are all masterpieces of art. The chorus at the end might have captured the essence of the play: "No evil can befall a good person in life or death."

'The art of concealing art' is nowhere more perfect than in those writings of Plato which describe the trial and death of Socrates. Their charm is their simplicity, which gives them verisimilitude; and yet they touch, as if incidentally, and because they were suitable to the occasion, on some of the deepest truths of philosophy. There is nothing in any tragedy, ancient or modern, nothing in poetry or history (with one exception), like the last hours of Socrates in Plato. The master could not be more fitly occupied at such a time than in discoursing of immortality; nor the disciples more divinely consoled. The arguments, taken in the spirit and not in the letter, are our arguments; and Socrates by anticipation may be even thought to refute some 'eccentric notions; current in our own age. For there are philosophers among ourselves who do not seem to understand how much stronger is the power of intelligence, or of the best, than of Atlas, or mechanical force. How far the words attributed to Socrates were actually uttered by him we forbear to ask; for no answer can be given to this question. And it is better to resign ourselves to the feeling of a great work, than to linger among critical uncertainties.

'The art of hiding art' reaches its peak in Plato's writings about the trial and death of Socrates. Their appeal lies in their simplicity, which lends them credibility; yet, they touch on some of the deepest philosophical truths as if casually, aligning with the occasion. There’s nothing in any tragedy, ancient or modern, and nothing in poetry or history (with one exception), that compares to Socrates’ final hours in Plato's works. At such a moment, the master could not be more appropriately engaged than discussing immortality; nor could his disciples be more divinely comforted. The arguments, when considered in spirit rather than literally, are our arguments; and one might even think that Socrates preemptively counters some of the 'eccentric ideas' present in our time. For we have philosophers among us who do not seem to grasp how much stronger the power of reason, or the best of it, is compared to that of Atlas or physical force. We won't inquire how much of what is attributed to Socrates he actually said; no answer can be provided to that question. It’s better to immerse ourselves in the feeling of a great work than to get caught up in critical doubts.





PHAEDO

PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE:

DIALOGUE PARTICIPANTS:

Phaedo, who is the narrator of the dialogue to Echecrates of Phlius. Socrates, Apollodorus, Simmias, Cebes, Crito and an Attendant of the Prison.

Phaedo, who tells the story to Echecrates of Phlius, is with Socrates, Apollodorus, Simmias, Cebes, Crito, and a prison attendant.

SCENE: The Prison of Socrates.

SCENE: Socrates' Prison.

PLACE OF THE NARRATION: Phlius.

Phlius.

ECHECRATES: Were you yourself, Phaedo, in the prison with Socrates on the day when he drank the poison?

ECHECRATES: Were you there with Socrates in the prison on the day he drank the poison, Phaedo?

PHAEDO: Yes, Echecrates, I was.

PHAEDO: Yes, Echecrates, I was.

ECHECRATES: I should so like to hear about his death. What did he say in his last hours? We were informed that he died by taking poison, but no one knew anything more; for no Phliasian ever goes to Athens now, and it is a long time since any stranger from Athens has found his way hither; so that we had no clear account.

ECHECRATES: I really want to hear about his death. What did he say in his last hours? We heard he died from taking poison, but no one knows more than that; no one from Phlius goes to Athens anymore, and it’s been a while since anyone from Athens has come here, so we don’t have a clear account.

PHAEDO: Did you not hear of the proceedings at the trial?

PHAEDO: Didn’t you hear about what happened at the trial?

ECHECRATES: Yes; some one told us about the trial, and we could not understand why, having been condemned, he should have been put to death, not at the time, but long afterwards. What was the reason of this?

ECHECRATES: Yes; someone told us about the trial, and we couldn't understand why, after being found guilty, he was put to death— not right away, but much later. What was the reason for that?

PHAEDO: An accident, Echecrates: the stern of the ship which the Athenians send to Delos happened to have been crowned on the day before he was tried.

PHAEDO: An accident, Echecrates: the back of the ship that the Athenians send to Delos just happened to be crowned the day before he was tried.

ECHECRATES: What is this ship?

ECHECRATES: What’s this ship?

PHAEDO: It is the ship in which, according to Athenian tradition, Theseus went to Crete when he took with him the fourteen youths, and was the saviour of them and of himself. And they were said to have vowed to Apollo at the time, that if they were saved they would send a yearly mission to Delos. Now this custom still continues, and the whole period of the voyage to and from Delos, beginning when the priest of Apollo crowns the stern of the ship, is a holy season, during which the city is not allowed to be polluted by public executions; and when the vessel is detained by contrary winds, the time spent in going and returning is very considerable. As I was saying, the ship was crowned on the day before the trial, and this was the reason why Socrates lay in prison and was not put to death until long after he was condemned.

PHAEDO: It’s the ship that, according to Athenian tradition, Theseus took to Crete when he brought along fourteen youths, saving both them and himself. They supposedly promised Apollo that if they survived, they would send a yearly mission to Delos. This tradition still exists today, and the entire duration of the voyage to and from Delos, starting when the priest of Apollo crowns the ship's stern, is a sacred time when the city is not allowed to conduct public executions. If the ship is held up by unfavorable winds, the time taken for the trip can be quite lengthy. As I mentioned, the ship was crowned the day before the trial, which is why Socrates remained in prison and wasn’t put to death until much later after his sentence.

ECHECRATES: What was the manner of his death, Phaedo? What was said or done? And which of his friends were with him? Or did the authorities forbid them to be present—so that he had no friends near him when he died?

ECHECRATES: How did he die, Phaedo? What happened or what was said? And which of his friends were there with him? Or did the authorities not allow them to be there—so he had no friends around when he died?

PHAEDO: No; there were several of them with him.

PHAEDO: No; there were a few of them with him.

ECHECRATES: If you have nothing to do, I wish that you would tell me what passed, as exactly as you can.

ECHECRATES: If you’re free, I’d like you to tell me what happened in as much detail as you can.

PHAEDO: I have nothing at all to do, and will try to gratify your wish. To be reminded of Socrates is always the greatest delight to me, whether I speak myself or hear another speak of him.

PHAEDO: I have nothing to do right now, and I'll do my best to fulfill your wish. Thinking about Socrates always brings me the greatest joy, whether I talk about him myself or listen to someone else talk about him.

ECHECRATES: You will have listeners who are of the same mind with you, and I hope that you will be as exact as you can.

ECHECRATES: You will have listeners who think like you do, and I hope you will be as precise as possible.

PHAEDO: I had a singular feeling at being in his company. For I could hardly believe that I was present at the death of a friend, and therefore I did not pity him, Echecrates; he died so fearlessly, and his words and bearing were so noble and gracious, that to me he appeared blessed. I thought that in going to the other world he could not be without a divine call, and that he would be happy, if any man ever was, when he arrived there, and therefore I did not pity him as might have seemed natural at such an hour. But I had not the pleasure which I usually feel in philosophical discourse (for philosophy was the theme of which we spoke). I was pleased, but in the pleasure there was also a strange admixture of pain; for I reflected that he was soon to die, and this double feeling was shared by us all; we were laughing and weeping by turns, especially the excitable Apollodorus—you know the sort of man?

PHAEDO: I felt something unique being with him. I could hardly believe I was there for a friend's death, so I didn’t feel pity for him, Echecrates; he died with such fearlessness, and his words and demeanor were so noble and gracious that he seemed blessed to me. I thought that as he moved to the next world, he must be responding to a divine call, and that he would be happy, if anyone ever was, when he got there, so I didn’t pity him as one might expect at such a moment. But I didn’t have the enjoyment I usually get from philosophical discussions (since philosophy was our topic). I was pleased, but there was also an odd blend of pain in that pleasure; I was reminded that he was about to die, and we all shared that mixed emotion; we laughed and cried alternately, especially the sensitive Apollodorus—you know the type?

ECHECRATES: Yes.

Yes.

PHAEDO: He was quite beside himself; and I and all of us were greatly moved.

PHAEDO: He was really upset, and I and all of us were very touched.

ECHECRATES: Who were present?

ECHECRATES: Who was there?

PHAEDO: Of native Athenians there were, besides Apollodorus, Critobulus and his father Crito, Hermogenes, Epigenes, Aeschines, Antisthenes; likewise Ctesippus of the deme of Paeania, Menexenus, and some others; Plato, if I am not mistaken, was ill.

PHAEDO: Among the native Athenians, there were Apollodorus, Critobulus and his father Crito, Hermogenes, Epigenes, Aeschines, Antisthenes; as well as Ctesippus from the deme of Paeania, Menexenus, and a few others; Plato, if I remember correctly, was sick.

ECHECRATES: Were there any strangers?

ECHECRATES: Were there any visitors?

PHAEDO: Yes, there were; Simmias the Theban, and Cebes, and Phaedondes; Euclid and Terpison, who came from Megara.

PHAEDO: Yes, there were; Simmias the Theban, Cebes, and Phaedondes; Euclid and Terpison, who came from Megara.

ECHECRATES: And was Aristippus there, and Cleombrotus?

ECHECRATES: Were Aristippus and Cleombrotus there?

PHAEDO: No, they were said to be in Aegina.

PHAEDO: No, they were said to be in Aegina.

ECHECRATES: Any one else?

ECHECRATES: Anyone else?

PHAEDO: I think that these were nearly all.

PHAEDO: I think that these were almost all.

ECHECRATES: Well, and what did you talk about?

ECHECRATES: So, what did you guys talk about?

PHAEDO: I will begin at the beginning, and endeavour to repeat the entire conversation. On the previous days we had been in the habit of assembling early in the morning at the court in which the trial took place, and which is not far from the prison. There we used to wait talking with one another until the opening of the doors (for they were not opened very early); then we went in and generally passed the day with Socrates. On the last morning we assembled sooner than usual, having heard on the day before when we quitted the prison in the evening that the sacred ship had come from Delos, and so we arranged to meet very early at the accustomed place. On our arrival the jailer who answered the door, instead of admitting us, came out and told us to stay until he called us. 'For the Eleven,' he said, 'are now with Socrates; they are taking off his chains, and giving orders that he is to die to-day.' He soon returned and said that we might come in. On entering we found Socrates just released from chains, and Xanthippe, whom you know, sitting by him, and holding his child in her arms. When she saw us she uttered a cry and said, as women will: 'O Socrates, this is the last time that either you will converse with your friends, or they with you.' Socrates turned to Crito and said: 'Crito, let some one take her home.' Some of Crito's people accordingly led her away, crying out and beating herself. And when she was gone, Socrates, sitting up on the couch, bent and rubbed his leg, saying, as he was rubbing: How singular is the thing called pleasure, and how curiously related to pain, which might be thought to be the opposite of it; for they are never present to a man at the same instant, and yet he who pursues either is generally compelled to take the other; their bodies are two, but they are joined by a single head. And I cannot help thinking that if Aesop had remembered them, he would have made a fable about God trying to reconcile their strife, and how, when he could not, he fastened their heads together; and this is the reason why when one comes the other follows, as I know by my own experience now, when after the pain in my leg which was caused by the chain pleasure appears to succeed.

PHAEDO: I’ll start from the beginning and try to repeat the whole conversation. In the days before, we had gotten into the habit of gathering early in the morning at the court where the trial happened, which isn’t far from the prison. We would wait there, chatting with each other until the doors opened (which weren't opened very early). Then we’d go in and usually spend the day with Socrates. On that last morning, we met earlier than usual because we heard the night before, when we left the prison, that the sacred ship had returned from Delos. So, we planned to meet very early at our usual spot. When we arrived, the jailer who answered the door, instead of letting us in, came out and told us to wait until he called us in. “The Eleven,” he said, “are with Socrates right now; they’re taking off his chains and giving orders for him to die today.” He soon returned and said we could come in. When we entered, we found Socrates just released from his chains, and Xanthippe, as you know, was sitting by him, holding their child in her arms. When she saw us, she cried out and said, as women do: “Oh Socrates, this is the last time you will talk with your friends, or they with you.” Socrates turned to Crito and said, “Crito, have someone take her home.” So some of Crito's people helped her away, while she cried and beat herself. After she was gone, Socrates, sitting up on the couch, bent down and rubbed his leg, saying as he rubbed: “How strange is this thing called pleasure, and how oddly related to pain, which might seem like its opposite; for they are never present to a person at the same time, yet whoever chases one is usually forced to take the other; their bodies are two, but joined by a single head. I can’t help thinking that if Aesop had remembered them, he would have created a fable about God trying to reconcile their conflict and how, when he couldn’t, he joined their heads together; and that’s why when one comes, the other follows, as I now know from my own experience, when after the pain in my leg caused by the chain, pleasure seems to follow.”

Upon this Cebes said: I am glad, Socrates, that you have mentioned the name of Aesop. For it reminds me of a question which has been asked by many, and was asked of me only the day before yesterday by Evenus the poet—he will be sure to ask it again, and therefore if you would like me to have an answer ready for him, you may as well tell me what I should say to him:—he wanted to know why you, who never before wrote a line of poetry, now that you are in prison are turning Aesop's fables into verse, and also composing that hymn in honour of Apollo.

Upon this, Cebes said: I’m glad, Socrates, that you brought up Aesop. It reminds me of a question that many people have asked, and which Evenus the poet just asked me the day before yesterday—he’s likely to ask it again, so if you want me to have an answer ready for him, you might as well tell me what I should say: he wanted to know why you, who never wrote any poetry before, are now, while in prison, turning Aesop’s fables into verse and also composing that hymn in honor of Apollo.

Tell him, Cebes, he replied, what is the truth—that I had no idea of rivalling him or his poems; to do so, as I knew, would be no easy task. But I wanted to see whether I could purge away a scruple which I felt about the meaning of certain dreams. In the course of my life I have often had intimations in dreams 'that I should compose music.' The same dream came to me sometimes in one form, and sometimes in another, but always saying the same or nearly the same words: 'Cultivate and make music,' said the dream. And hitherto I had imagined that this was only intended to exhort and encourage me in the study of philosophy, which has been the pursuit of my life, and is the noblest and best of music. The dream was bidding me do what I was already doing, in the same way that the competitor in a race is bidden by the spectators to run when he is already running. But I was not certain of this, for the dream might have meant music in the popular sense of the word, and being under sentence of death, and the festival giving me a respite, I thought that it would be safer for me to satisfy the scruple, and, in obedience to the dream, to compose a few verses before I departed. And first I made a hymn in honour of the god of the festival, and then considering that a poet, if he is really to be a poet, should not only put together words, but should invent stories, and that I have no invention, I took some fables of Aesop, which I had ready at hand and which I knew—they were the first I came upon—and turned them into verse. Tell this to Evenus, Cebes, and bid him be of good cheer; say that I would have him come after me if he be a wise man, and not tarry; and that to-day I am likely to be going, for the Athenians say that I must.

Tell him, Cebes, he replied, what’s the truth—that I had no intention of competing with him or his poems; I knew that would be a tough task. But I wanted to find out if I could get rid of a nagging doubt I had about the meaning of certain dreams. Throughout my life, I've often had dreams that hinted at me 'composing music.' The same dream appeared to me in different forms but always conveyed a similar message: 'Cultivate and create music,' the dream said. Until now, I thought this was just to encourage me in my study of philosophy, which has been my life's work, and is the highest and greatest form of music. The dream was urging me to do what I was already doing, much like how spectators tell a runner to keep going when they’re already running. But I wasn’t sure about this, as the dream could have meant music in the common sense of the word, and since I was facing execution, and the festival gave me a reprieve, I felt it was safer to clear my doubts and, in response to the dream, write a few verses before I left. First, I composed a hymn to honor the god of the festival. Then, realizing that a true poet should not only string words together but also create stories, and since I lacked that creativity, I took some fables from Aesop, which I had handy, and turned them into verse. Tell this to Evenus, Cebes, and ask him to stay hopeful; encourage him to come after me if he’s wise, and not to delay; and that today I am likely to leave, as the Athenians say I must.

Simmias said: What a message for such a man! having been a frequent companion of his I should say that, as far as I know him, he will never take your advice unless he is obliged.

Simmias said: What a message for someone like him! Having spent a lot of time with him, I would say that, as far as I know him, he will never take your advice unless he has to.

Why, said Socrates,—is not Evenus a philosopher?

Why, said Socrates, isn't Evenus a philosopher?

I think that he is, said Simmias.

I think he is, said Simmias.

Then he, or any man who has the spirit of philosophy, will be willing to die, but he will not take his own life, for that is held to be unlawful.

Then he, or any person with a philosophical mindset, will be willing to die, but he won’t take his own life, as that is considered unlawful.

Here he changed his position, and put his legs off the couch on to the ground, and during the rest of the conversation he remained sitting.

Here he shifted his position and placed his legs off the couch onto the ground, and for the rest of the conversation, he stayed seated.

Why do you say, enquired Cebes, that a man ought not to take his own life, but that the philosopher will be ready to follow the dying?

"Why do you say," Cebes asked, "that a person shouldn't take their own life, but that a philosopher will be ready to follow the dying?"

Socrates replied: And have you, Cebes and Simmias, who are the disciples of Philolaus, never heard him speak of this?

Socrates replied: Have you, Cebes and Simmias, who are students of Philolaus, never heard him talk about this?

Yes, but his language was obscure, Socrates.

Yes, but his language was unclear, Socrates.

My words, too, are only an echo; but there is no reason why I should not repeat what I have heard: and indeed, as I am going to another place, it is very meet for me to be thinking and talking of the nature of the pilgrimage which I am about to make. What can I do better in the interval between this and the setting of the sun?

My words are just a reflection, but there’s no reason I shouldn’t share what I’ve heard. Since I’m heading to a new place, it’s fitting for me to consider and discuss the nature of the journey I’m about to take. What better way to spend the time between now and sunset?

Then tell me, Socrates, why is suicide held to be unlawful? as I have certainly heard Philolaus, about whom you were just now asking, affirm when he was staying with us at Thebes: and there are others who say the same, although I have never understood what was meant by any of them.

Then tell me, Socrates, why is suicide considered illegal? I've definitely heard Philolaus, the one you just asked about, say this while he was with us in Thebes; and there are others who say the same thing, though I've never really understood what they meant.

Do not lose heart, replied Socrates, and the day may come when you will understand. I suppose that you wonder why, when other things which are evil may be good at certain times and to certain persons, death is to be the only exception, and why, when a man is better dead, he is not permitted to be his own benefactor, but must wait for the hand of another.

"Don't lose hope," Socrates replied, "and one day you might understand. I guess you're wondering why, while other things that are bad can sometimes be good for certain people, death is the one exception. Why is it that when someone would be better off dead, they can't help themselves and have to wait for someone else to do it?"

Very true, said Cebes, laughing gently and speaking in his native Boeotian.

Very true, Cebes said, chuckling softly and speaking in his native Boeotian.

I admit the appearance of inconsistency in what I am saying; but there may not be any real inconsistency after all. There is a doctrine whispered in secret that man is a prisoner who has no right to open the door and run away; this is a great mystery which I do not quite understand. Yet I too believe that the gods are our guardians, and that we are a possession of theirs. Do you not agree?

I recognize that what I'm saying might seem inconsistent; however, there might not actually be any real inconsistency. There's a belief that people are trapped and have no right to break free and escape; this is a profound mystery that I don't fully get. Still, I believe that the gods are watching over us and that we belong to them. Don't you agree?

Yes, I quite agree, said Cebes.

Yes, I totally agree, said Cebes.

And if one of your own possessions, an ox or an ass, for example, took the liberty of putting himself out of the way when you had given no intimation of your wish that he should die, would you not be angry with him, and would you not punish him if you could?

And if one of your own possessions, like an ox or a donkey, decided to wander off when you hadn’t indicated that you wanted it to die, wouldn’t you be upset with it, and wouldn’t you punish it if you could?

Certainly, replied Cebes.

Sure, replied Cebes.

Then, if we look at the matter thus, there may be reason in saying that a man should wait, and not take his own life until God summons him, as he is now summoning me.

Then, if we consider it this way, there might be a good reason to say that a man should wait and not end his own life until God calls him, just like He is calling me now.

Yes, Socrates, said Cebes, there seems to be truth in what you say. And yet how can you reconcile this seemingly true belief that God is our guardian and we his possessions, with the willingness to die which we were just now attributing to the philosopher? That the wisest of men should be willing to leave a service in which they are ruled by the gods who are the best of rulers, is not reasonable; for surely no wise man thinks that when set at liberty he can take better care of himself than the gods take of him. A fool may perhaps think so—he may argue that he had better run away from his master, not considering that his duty is to remain to the end, and not to run away from the good, and that there would be no sense in his running away. The wise man will want to be ever with him who is better than himself. Now this, Socrates, is the reverse of what was just now said; for upon this view the wise man should sorrow and the fool rejoice at passing out of life.

Yes, Socrates, Cebes replied, there seems to be truth in what you’re saying. But how can we reconcile this apparently true belief that God is our guardian and we're His possessions with the willingness to die that we just attributed to the philosopher? It doesn’t make sense for the wisest of men to want to leave a service where they are overseen by the best rulers, the gods. Surely no wise man believes that once he is free, he can take better care of himself than the gods do. A fool might think that—he might argue that it's better to escape from his master, not realizing that his duty is to stay until the end and not to flee from what is good, which would be pointless. The wise man will want to be with someone who is better than himself. This, Socrates, contradicts what we just said; because in this view, the wise man should grieve while the fool should rejoice at leaving life.

The earnestness of Cebes seemed to please Socrates. Here, said he, turning to us, is a man who is always inquiring, and is not so easily convinced by the first thing which he hears.

The seriousness of Cebes seemed to make Socrates happy. “Look,” he said, turning to us, “here’s a guy who's always asking questions and isn’t easily convinced by the first thing he hears.”

And certainly, added Simmias, the objection which he is now making does appear to me to have some force. For what can be the meaning of a truly wise man wanting to fly away and lightly leave a master who is better than himself? And I rather imagine that Cebes is referring to you; he thinks that you are too ready to leave us, and too ready to leave the gods whom you acknowledge to be our good masters.

And definitely, Simmias added, the objection he's making seems to have some merit. What could a truly wise person mean by wanting to just escape and abandon a teacher who is better than they are? I get the feeling that Cebes is talking about you; he thinks you’re too quick to leave us, and too quick to abandon the gods you recognize as our good masters.

Yes, replied Socrates; there is reason in what you say. And so you think that I ought to answer your indictment as if I were in a court?

Yes, replied Socrates; there's logic in what you’re saying. So, you believe I should respond to your charges as if I were in a courtroom?

We should like you to do so, said Simmias.

We'd like you to do that, said Simmias.

Then I must try to make a more successful defence before you than I did when before the judges. For I am quite ready to admit, Simmias and Cebes, that I ought to be grieved at death, if I were not persuaded in the first place that I am going to other gods who are wise and good (of which I am as certain as I can be of any such matters), and secondly (though I am not so sure of this last) to men departed, better than those whom I leave behind; and therefore I do not grieve as I might have done, for I have good hope that there is yet something remaining for the dead, and as has been said of old, some far better thing for the good than for the evil.

Then I need to try to defend myself better in front of you than I did before the judges. I'm completely ready to admit, Simmias and Cebes, that I should be sad about death if I weren't convinced, first of all, that I’m going to join wise and good gods (which I am as certain about as I can be regarding any such things), and second (although I'm not as sure about this last point) to a place with the spirits of those who are better than those I leave behind; and for that reason, I don’t feel as upset as I could have, because I have good hope that there is still something left for the dead, and as has been said in the past, something much better for the good than for the wicked.

But do you mean to take away your thoughts with you, Socrates? said Simmias. Will you not impart them to us?—for they are a benefit in which we too are entitled to share. Moreover, if you succeed in convincing us, that will be an answer to the charge against yourself.

But are you really going to take your thoughts with you, Socrates? asked Simmias. Won't you share them with us?—because they are something we should also benefit from. Also, if you manage to convince us, that will counter the accusations against you.

I will do my best, replied Socrates. But you must first let me hear what Crito wants; he has long been wishing to say something to me.

“I’ll do my best,” replied Socrates. “But you need to let me hear what Crito wants first; he’s been wanting to say something to me for a while.”

Only this, Socrates, replied Crito:—the attendant who is to give you the poison has been telling me, and he wants me to tell you, that you are not to talk much, talking, he says, increases heat, and this is apt to interfere with the action of the poison; persons who excite themselves are sometimes obliged to take a second or even a third dose.

"Just this, Socrates," Crito replied. "The attendant who is going to give you the poison has been telling me, and he wants me to tell you, that you shouldn’t talk much. He says that talking increases your body heat, which can interfere with how the poison works. People who get too worked up sometimes have to take a second or even a third dose."

Then, said Socrates, let him mind his business and be prepared to give the poison twice or even thrice if necessary; that is all.

Then, Socrates said, he should focus on his own affairs and be ready to administer the poison two or three times if needed; that’s all.

I knew quite well what you would say, replied Crito; but I was obliged to satisfy him.

I knew exactly what you would say, Crito replied; but I had to go along with it.

Never mind him, he said.

Forget him, he said.

And now, O my judges, I desire to prove to you that the real philosopher has reason to be of good cheer when he is about to die, and that after death he may hope to obtain the greatest good in the other world. And how this may be, Simmias and Cebes, I will endeavour to explain. For I deem that the true votary of philosophy is likely to be misunderstood by other men; they do not perceive that he is always pursuing death and dying; and if this be so, and he has had the desire of death all his life long, why when his time comes should he repine at that which he has been always pursuing and desiring?

And now, judges, I want to show you that a true philosopher has every reason to be hopeful when facing death, and that after death, he can expect to find the greatest good in the next world. I will try to explain how this is possible, Simmias and Cebes. I believe that a genuine lover of wisdom is often misunderstood by others; they fail to see that he is always seeking death and dying. If this is the case, and he has desired death his whole life, why would he regret what he has always been chasing after when his time finally comes?

Simmias said laughingly: Though not in a laughing humour, you have made me laugh, Socrates; for I cannot help thinking that the many when they hear your words will say how truly you have described philosophers, and our people at home will likewise say that the life which philosophers desire is in reality death, and that they have found them out to be deserving of the death which they desire.

Simmias said with a laugh: Although I’m not in a laughing mood, you’ve made me laugh, Socrates; because I can’t help but think that when many people hear your words, they will agree with how accurately you’ve described philosophers. Our folks back home will also say that the life philosophers wish for is really just a form of death, and that they’ve figured out that philosophers deserve the death they seek.

And they are right, Simmias, in thinking so, with the exception of the words 'they have found them out'; for they have not found out either what is the nature of that death which the true philosopher deserves, or how he deserves or desires death. But enough of them:—let us discuss the matter among ourselves: Do we believe that there is such a thing as death?

And they’re right, Simmias, to think that way, except for the part where they say 'they have figured it all out'; because they haven’t figured out what kind of death a true philosopher deserves, or how he deserves or wants that death. But enough about them:—let’s talk about it ourselves: Do we believe there is such a thing as death?

To be sure, replied Simmias.

"Sure," replied Simmias.

Is it not the separation of soul and body? And to be dead is the completion of this; when the soul exists in herself, and is released from the body and the body is released from the soul, what is this but death?

Isn’t it the separation of soul and body? And being dead is the completion of this; when the soul exists on its own, free from the body, and the body is free from the soul, what is this but death?

Just so, he replied.

Exactly, he replied.

There is another question, which will probably throw light on our present inquiry if you and I can agree about it:—Ought the philosopher to care about the pleasures—if they are to be called pleasures—of eating and drinking?

There’s another question that might help us understand our current inquiry if you and I can come to an agreement: Should philosophers care about the joys—if we can even call them joys—of eating and drinking?

Certainly not, answered Simmias.

Definitely not, replied Simmias.

And what about the pleasures of love—should he care for them?

And what about the joys of love—should he care about them?

By no means.

No way.

And will he think much of the other ways of indulging the body, for example, the acquisition of costly raiment, or sandals, or other adornments of the body? Instead of caring about them, does he not rather despise anything more than nature needs? What do you say?

And does he really value other ways of treating the body, like buying expensive clothes, shoes, or other fancy things? Instead of caring about them, doesn’t he actually look down on anything beyond what nature requires? What do you think?

I should say that the true philosopher would despise them.

I should say that a genuine philosopher would look down on them.

Would you not say that he is entirely concerned with the soul and not with the body? He would like, as far as he can, to get away from the body and to turn to the soul.

Wouldn't you agree that he is completely focused on the soul and not on the body? He would like, as much as possible, to escape from the body and to focus on the soul.

Quite true.

Totally true.

In matters of this sort philosophers, above all other men, may be observed in every sort of way to dissever the soul from the communion of the body.

In situations like this, philosophers, more than anyone else, can be seen in various ways separating the soul from its connection to the body.

Very true.

So true.

Whereas, Simmias, the rest of the world are of opinion that to him who has no sense of pleasure and no part in bodily pleasure, life is not worth having; and that he who is indifferent about them is as good as dead.

Whereas, Simmias, most people believe that someone who doesn't experience pleasure or take part in physical enjoyment finds life unworthy; and that a person who is indifferent to these things is basically as good as dead.

That is also true.

That's true too.

What again shall we say of the actual acquirement of knowledge?—is the body, if invited to share in the enquiry, a hinderer or a helper? I mean to say, have sight and hearing any truth in them? Are they not, as the poets are always telling us, inaccurate witnesses? and yet, if even they are inaccurate and indistinct, what is to be said of the other senses?—for you will allow that they are the best of them?

What can we say about actually gaining knowledge? Is the body, if it's included in the discussion, a hindrance or a help? I mean, do sight and hearing contain any truth? Aren't they, as poets often tell us, unreliable witnesses? And yet, even if they are inaccurate and unclear, what can we say about the other senses? After all, you would agree that they are the most reliable of the bunch?

Certainly, he replied.

Sure, he replied.

Then when does the soul attain truth?—for in attempting to consider anything in company with the body she is obviously deceived.

Then when does the soul discover the truth?—because whenever she tries to think about anything alongside the body, she is clearly misled.

True.

True.

Then must not true existence be revealed to her in thought, if at all?

Then shouldn't true existence be revealed to her in thought, if it ever is?

Yes.

Yes.

And thought is best when the mind is gathered into herself and none of these things trouble her—neither sounds nor sights nor pain nor any pleasure,—when she takes leave of the body, and has as little as possible to do with it, when she has no bodily sense or desire, but is aspiring after true being?

And thinking is most effective when the mind is focused and not disturbed by anything—neither sounds, sights, pain, nor any pleasure—when it disconnects from the body and engages as little as possible with it, when it has no physical sensations or desires, but is striving for true existence?

Certainly.

Sure.

And in this the philosopher dishonours the body; his soul runs away from his body and desires to be alone and by herself?

And in this, the philosopher disrespects the body; his soul escapes from his body and wants to be alone by itself?

That is true.

That's true.

Well, but there is another thing, Simmias: Is there or is there not an absolute justice?

Well, Simmias, there's another question: Is there such a thing as absolute justice, or isn't there?

Assuredly there is.

Definitely there is.

And an absolute beauty and absolute good?

And an ultimate beauty and ultimate good?

Of course.

Sure thing.

But did you ever behold any of them with your eyes?

But have you ever seen any of them with your own eyes?

Certainly not.

Definitely not.

Or did you ever reach them with any other bodily sense?—and I speak not of these alone, but of absolute greatness, and health, and strength, and of the essence or true nature of everything. Has the reality of them ever been perceived by you through the bodily organs? or rather, is not the nearest approach to the knowledge of their several natures made by him who so orders his intellectual vision as to have the most exact conception of the essence of each thing which he considers?

Or have you ever sensed them through any other bodily sense?—and I’m not just talking about these alone, but about absolute greatness, health, strength, and the true nature of everything. Have you ever perceived their reality through your physical senses? Or isn’t the closest way to understand their different natures achieved by someone who sharpens their intellectual insight to have the clearest understanding of the essence of each thing they contemplate?

Certainly.

Sure thing.

And he attains to the purest knowledge of them who goes to each with the mind alone, not introducing or intruding in the act of thought sight or any other sense together with reason, but with the very light of the mind in her own clearness searches into the very truth of each; he who has got rid, as far as he can, of eyes and ears and, so to speak, of the whole body, these being in his opinion distracting elements which when they infect the soul hinder her from acquiring truth and knowledge—who, if not he, is likely to attain the knowledge of true being?

And he reaches the truest understanding of things who approaches each one solely with the mind, without bringing in the distractions of sight or any other sense along with reason, but instead using the pure light of the mind to delve into the essence of each. He who has, as much as possible, set aside his eyes, ears, and, in a way, his entire body—viewing them as distractions that hinder the soul from gaining truth and knowledge—who, if not him, is likely to achieve the knowledge of true existence?

What you say has a wonderful truth in it, Socrates, replied Simmias.

"What you say has a wonderful truth to it, Socrates," replied Simmias.

And when real philosophers consider all these things, will they not be led to make a reflection which they will express in words something like the following? 'Have we not found,' they will say, 'a path of thought which seems to bring us and our argument to the conclusion, that while we are in the body, and while the soul is infected with the evils of the body, our desire will not be satisfied? and our desire is of the truth. For the body is a source of endless trouble to us by reason of the mere requirement of food; and is liable also to diseases which overtake and impede us in the search after true being: it fills us full of loves, and lusts, and fears, and fancies of all kinds, and endless foolery, and in fact, as men say, takes away from us the power of thinking at all. Whence come wars, and fightings, and factions? whence but from the body and the lusts of the body? wars are occasioned by the love of money, and money has to be acquired for the sake and in the service of the body; and by reason of all these impediments we have no time to give to philosophy; and, last and worst of all, even if we are at leisure and betake ourselves to some speculation, the body is always breaking in upon us, causing turmoil and confusion in our enquiries, and so amazing us that we are prevented from seeing the truth. It has been proved to us by experience that if we would have pure knowledge of anything we must be quit of the body—the soul in herself must behold things in themselves: and then we shall attain the wisdom which we desire, and of which we say that we are lovers, not while we live, but after death; for if while in company with the body, the soul cannot have pure knowledge, one of two things follows—either knowledge is not to be attained at all, or, if at all, after death. For then, and not till then, the soul will be parted from the body and exist in herself alone. In this present life, I reckon that we make the nearest approach to knowledge when we have the least possible intercourse or communion with the body, and are not surfeited with the bodily nature, but keep ourselves pure until the hour when God himself is pleased to release us. And thus having got rid of the foolishness of the body we shall be pure and hold converse with the pure, and know of ourselves the clear light everywhere, which is no other than the light of truth.' For the impure are not permitted to approach the pure. These are the sort of words, Simmias, which the true lovers of knowledge cannot help saying to one another, and thinking. You would agree; would you not?

And when real philosophers think about all this, won’t they come to a conclusion they might express like this? 'Haven’t we discovered a way of thinking that leads us to believe that while we are in the body, and while the soul is affected by the body’s evils, our desire can never be fulfilled? And our desire is for the truth. The body causes us endless trouble just from needing food; it also succumbs to diseases that hinder us in our quest for true existence. It fills us with loves, lusts, fears, and various distractions, even to the point where, as people say, it robs us of our ability to think at all. Where do wars, conflicts, and divisions come from? From the body and its cravings, of course. Wars arise from the love of money, which we seek to acquire to serve the body. Because of all these obstacles, we have no time for philosophy; and worst of all, even if we do find some leisure to ponder, the body constantly interrupts us, creating chaos and confusion in our inquiries, leaving us unable to see the truth. Experience has shown us that to achieve pure knowledge about anything, we must be free of the body—the soul must observe things in their essence by itself: then we will attain the wisdom we seek, the wisdom we claim to love, not while we live, but after death. Because if the soul cannot have pure knowledge while it’s connected to the body, one of two things must be true—either knowledge cannot be attained at all, or it can only be attained after death. Because then, and not until then, the soul will be separated from the body and exist on its own. In this life, I believe we get closest to knowledge when we have the least involvement with the body and aren’t overwhelmed by its nature but remain pure until God decides to release us. And so, having shed the foolishness of the body, we will be pure, conversing with the pure, and will recognize the clear light everywhere, which is nothing other than the light of truth.' For the impure are not allowed to approach the pure. These are the kinds of things, Simmias, that true lovers of knowledge can’t help but say and think to one another. You would agree, wouldn’t you?

Undoubtedly, Socrates.

Definitely, Socrates.

But, O my friend, if this is true, there is great reason to hope that, going whither I go, when I have come to the end of my journey, I shall attain that which has been the pursuit of my life. And therefore I go on my way rejoicing, and not I only, but every other man who believes that his mind has been made ready and that he is in a manner purified.

But, oh my friend, if this is true, there’s a strong reason to be hopeful that, as I head toward my destination, when I reach the end of my journey, I will achieve what I’ve sought throughout my life. And so I continue on my path with joy, along with every other person who believes that their mind has been prepared and that they are, in some way, cleansed.

Certainly, replied Simmias.

Sure, replied Simmias.

And what is purification but the separation of the soul from the body, as I was saying before; the habit of the soul gathering and collecting herself into herself from all sides out of the body; the dwelling in her own place alone, as in another life, so also in this, as far as she can;—the release of the soul from the chains of the body?

And what is purification if not the separation of the soul from the body, as I mentioned before? It’s the soul’s process of gathering and focusing herself, pulling away from the body; being in her own space alone, both in another life and in this one, as much as she can; it’s the soul breaking free from the body’s constraints?

Very true, he said.

So true, he said.

And this separation and release of the soul from the body is termed death?

And this separation and release of the soul from the body is called death?

To be sure, he said.

For sure, he said.

And the true philosophers, and they only, are ever seeking to release the soul. Is not the separation and release of the soul from the body their especial study?

And the true philosophers, and only they, are always trying to set the soul free. Isn't the separation and liberation of the soul from the body their main focus?

That is true.

That's true.

And, as I was saying at first, there would be a ridiculous contradiction in men studying to live as nearly as they can in a state of death, and yet repining when it comes upon them.

And, as I was saying at the beginning, it would be a ridiculous contradiction for people to study how to live as close to death as possible and yet complain when it actually happens.

Clearly.

Clearly.

And the true philosophers, Simmias, are always occupied in the practice of dying, wherefore also to them least of all men is death terrible. Look at the matter thus:—if they have been in every way the enemies of the body, and are wanting to be alone with the soul, when this desire of theirs is granted, how inconsistent would they be if they trembled and repined, instead of rejoicing at their departure to that place where, when they arrive, they hope to gain that which in life they desired—and this was wisdom—and at the same time to be rid of the company of their enemy. Many a man has been willing to go to the world below animated by the hope of seeing there an earthly love, or wife, or son, and conversing with them. And will he who is a true lover of wisdom, and is strongly persuaded in like manner that only in the world below he can worthily enjoy her, still repine at death? Will he not depart with joy? Surely he will, O my friend, if he be a true philosopher. For he will have a firm conviction that there and there only, he can find wisdom in her purity. And if this be true, he would be very absurd, as I was saying, if he were afraid of death.

True philosophers, Simmias, are always focused on the practice of dying, which is why death isn’t terrifying to them at all. Consider this: if they’ve viewed the body as an enemy and longed to be with the soul, how inconsistent would they be if they feared and complained about their departure to a place where they believe they will finally obtain what they desired in life—wisdom—and at the same time be free from their enemy? Many have willingly faced the underworld motivated by the hope of seeing a loved one, like a partner or child, and talking with them. So, would a true lover of wisdom—someone who believes that true knowledge is only found in the afterlife—complain about death? Wouldn’t they leave with joy? Of course, they would, my friend, if they are a genuine philosopher. They’d be convinced that only there can they find wisdom in its pure form. If that’s the case, it would be quite absurd for them to fear death.

He would, indeed, replied Simmias.

He would, indeed, replied Simmias.

And when you see a man who is repining at the approach of death, is not his reluctance a sufficient proof that he is not a lover of wisdom, but a lover of the body, and probably at the same time a lover of either money or power, or both?

And when you see a man who is upset about the approach of death, isn’t his reluctance enough evidence that he doesn’t truly love wisdom, but instead loves the body, and probably at the same time loves either money or power, or both?

Quite so, he replied.

Absolutely, he replied.

And is not courage, Simmias, a quality which is specially characteristic of the philosopher?

And isn't courage, Simmias, a trait that's especially typical of a philosopher?

Certainly.

Sure thing.

There is temperance again, which even by the vulgar is supposed to consist in the control and regulation of the passions, and in the sense of superiority to them—is not temperance a virtue belonging to those only who despise the body, and who pass their lives in philosophy?

There’s temperance again, which many think is all about controlling and managing our emotions, and feeling above them—doesn’t temperance belong to those who look down on the body and spend their lives in philosophy?

Most assuredly.

Definitely.

For the courage and temperance of other men, if you will consider them, are really a contradiction.

For the bravery and self-control of other people, if you think about it, are actually a contradiction.

How so?

How come?

Well, he said, you are aware that death is regarded by men in general as a great evil.

“Well,” he said, “you know that people generally see death as a huge bad thing.”

Very true, he said.

That's true, he said.

And do not courageous men face death because they are afraid of yet greater evils?

And don't brave people face death because they fear even worse things?

That is quite true.

That's really true.

Then all but the philosophers are courageous only from fear, and because they are afraid; and yet that a man should be courageous from fear, and because he is a coward, is surely a strange thing.

Then everyone except philosophers is brave only out of fear, and because they're scared; yet it's definitely odd that someone can be brave because they're afraid and because they’re a coward.

Very true.

So true.

And are not the temperate exactly in the same case? They are temperate because they are intemperate—which might seem to be a contradiction, but is nevertheless the sort of thing which happens with this foolish temperance. For there are pleasures which they are afraid of losing; and in their desire to keep them, they abstain from some pleasures, because they are overcome by others; and although to be conquered by pleasure is called by men intemperance, to them the conquest of pleasure consists in being conquered by pleasure. And that is what I mean by saying that, in a sense, they are made temperate through intemperance.

Aren't the moderate people in the same situation? They're moderate because they're excessive—which might sound like a contradiction, but it actually happens with this misguided moderation. They fear losing certain pleasures, and to hold onto them, they avoid some pleasures because they get overwhelmed by others. While society calls being overcome by pleasure intemperance, for them, overcoming pleasure means being defeated by it. That's what I mean when I say, in a way, they become moderate through excess.

Such appears to be the case.

Such seems to be the case.

Yet the exchange of one fear or pleasure or pain for another fear or pleasure or pain, and of the greater for the less, as if they were coins, is not the exchange of virtue. O my blessed Simmias, is there not one true coin for which all things ought to be exchanged?—and that is wisdom; and only in exchange for this, and in company with this, is anything truly bought or sold, whether courage or temperance or justice. And is not all true virtue the companion of wisdom, no matter what fears or pleasures or other similar goods or evils may or may not attend her? But the virtue which is made up of these goods, when they are severed from wisdom and exchanged with one another, is a shadow of virtue only, nor is there any freedom or health or truth in her; but in the true exchange there is a purging away of all these things, and temperance, and justice, and courage, and wisdom herself are the purgation of them. The founders of the mysteries would appear to have had a real meaning, and were not talking nonsense when they intimated in a figure long ago that he who passes unsanctified and uninitiated into the world below will lie in a slough, but that he who arrives there after initiation and purification will dwell with the gods. For 'many,' as they say in the mysteries, 'are the thyrsus-bearers, but few are the mystics,'—meaning, as I interpret the words, 'the true philosophers.' In the number of whom, during my whole life, I have been seeking, according to my ability, to find a place;—whether I have sought in a right way or not, and whether I have succeeded or not, I shall truly know in a little while, if God will, when I myself arrive in the other world—such is my belief. And therefore I maintain that I am right, Simmias and Cebes, in not grieving or repining at parting from you and my masters in this world, for I believe that I shall equally find good masters and friends in another world. But most men do not believe this saying; if then I succeed in convincing you by my defence better than I did the Athenian judges, it will be well.

Yet trading one fear, pleasure, or pain for another, and exchanging greater for lesser, as if they were currency, isn't the exchange of virtue. Oh, my dear Simmias, is there not a single true coin for which everything should be exchanged?—and that is wisdom; and only in exchange for this, and when accompanied by this, is anything truly bought or sold, whether it’s courage, temperance, or justice. Isn’t all true virtue linked to wisdom, regardless of what fears, pleasures, or other similar goods or evils might accompany it? But the virtue made up of these goods, when separated from wisdom and exchanged among themselves, is merely a shadow of virtue, lacking any real freedom, health, or truth; whereas in the true exchange, all these things are cleansed, and temperance, justice, courage, and wisdom itself constitute that cleansing. The founders of the mysteries seem to have had a genuine message, and weren’t just speaking nonsense when they symbolically suggested long ago that those who enter the underworld unsanctified and uninitiated will wallow in muck, while those who arrive there after initiation and purification will dwell among the gods. For 'many,' as they say in the mysteries, 'are the thyrsus-bearers, but few are the mystics,'—meaning, as I interpret it, 'the true philosophers.' My whole life, I have been searching to fit into this group, whether I have done so correctly or not, and whether I have succeeded or not, I will know for certain soon, if God wills it, when I arrive in the next world—such is my belief. Therefore, I assert that I am right, Simmias and Cebes, in not feeling sorrow or regret about parting from you and my teachers in this world, because I trust that I will find equally good teachers and friends in the next world. But most people don’t believe this; if I succeed in convincing you with my defense better than I did the Athenian judges, then it will be good.

Cebes answered: I agree, Socrates, in the greater part of what you say. But in what concerns the soul, men are apt to be incredulous; they fear that when she has left the body her place may be nowhere, and that on the very day of death she may perish and come to an end—immediately on her release from the body, issuing forth dispersed like smoke or air and in her flight vanishing away into nothingness. If she could only be collected into herself after she has obtained release from the evils of which you are speaking, there would be good reason to hope, Socrates, that what you say is true. But surely it requires a great deal of argument and many proofs to show that when the man is dead his soul yet exists, and has any force or intelligence.

Cebes replied: I mostly agree with you, Socrates. However, regarding the soul, people tend to be doubtful; they worry that once it leaves the body, it might not go anywhere, and that on the day of death, it could perish and cease to exist—immediately after being freed from the body, breaking apart like smoke or air and disappearing into nothing. If only the soul could come back together after being freed from the troubles you mentioned, there would be good reason to believe, Socrates, that what you're saying is true. But it certainly takes a lot of arguments and many pieces of evidence to prove that when a person dies, their soul still exists and has any power or awareness.

True, Cebes, said Socrates; and shall I suggest that we converse a little of the probabilities of these things?

"You're right, Cebes," Socrates said. "How about we talk for a bit about the possibilities of these matters?"

I am sure, said Cebes, that I should greatly like to know your opinion about them.

I’m sure, Cebes said, that I would really like to know your thoughts on them.

I reckon, said Socrates, that no one who heard me now, not even if he were one of my old enemies, the Comic poets, could accuse me of idle talking about matters in which I have no concern:—If you please, then, we will proceed with the inquiry.

I think, said Socrates, that no one listening to me right now, not even one of my old foes, the comic poets, could claim that I'm just babbling about things that don't concern me:—If you’re okay with it, then, let's continue with the discussion.

Suppose we consider the question whether the souls of men after death are or are not in the world below. There comes into my mind an ancient doctrine which affirms that they go from hence into the other world, and returning hither, are born again from the dead. Now if it be true that the living come from the dead, then our souls must exist in the other world, for if not, how could they have been born again? And this would be conclusive, if there were any real evidence that the living are only born from the dead; but if this is not so, then other arguments will have to be adduced.

Suppose we think about whether people's souls, after they die, are in the afterlife or not. An old belief comes to mind that says they move on to another world and then come back here to be born again. If it's true that the living come from the dead, then our souls must exist in the afterlife because, if they didn’t, how could they be reborn? This would be convincing if there was solid proof that the living only come from the dead; but if that's not the case, then we’ll need to bring up other arguments.

Very true, replied Cebes.

So true, replied Cebes.

Then let us consider the whole question, not in relation to man only, but in relation to animals generally, and to plants, and to everything of which there is generation, and the proof will be easier. Are not all things which have opposites generated out of their opposites? I mean such things as good and evil, just and unjust—and there are innumerable other opposites which are generated out of opposites. And I want to show that in all opposites there is of necessity a similar alternation; I mean to say, for example, that anything which becomes greater must become greater after being less.

Then let's look at the entire issue, not just in relation to humans, but also regarding animals, plants, and everything that reproduces, and the argument will be clearer. Aren't all things with opposites created from their opposites? I’m referring to things like good and evil, just and unjust—and there are countless other opposites that come from opposites. I want to demonstrate that in all opposites, there must be a similar pattern; for instance, anything that grows must become larger after being smaller.

True.

True.

And that which becomes less must have been once greater and then have become less.

And something that becomes smaller must have been bigger at one time and then became smaller.

Yes.

Yes.

And the weaker is generated from the stronger, and the swifter from the slower.

And the weaker comes from the stronger, and the faster comes from the slower.

Very true.

So true.

And the worse is from the better, and the more just is from the more unjust.

And the bad comes from the good, and the more fair comes from the more unfair.

Of course.

Sure thing.

And is this true of all opposites? and are we convinced that all of them are generated out of opposites?

And is this true for all opposites? Are we sure that all of them come from opposites?

Yes.

Yes.

And in this universal opposition of all things, are there not also two intermediate processes which are ever going on, from one to the other opposite, and back again; where there is a greater and a less there is also an intermediate process of increase and diminution, and that which grows is said to wax, and that which decays to wane?

And in this universal struggle of all things, aren’t there also two ongoing processes that move between one opposite and the other, and back again? Where there is more and less, there is also a middle process of growing and shrinking, with what increases being said to grow, and what decreases being said to decline?

Yes, he said.

Yeah, he said.

And there are many other processes, such as division and composition, cooling and heating, which equally involve a passage into and out of one another. And this necessarily holds of all opposites, even though not always expressed in words—they are really generated out of one another, and there is a passing or process from one to the other of them?

And there are many other processes, like dividing and combining, cooling and heating, which also involve moving from one state to another. This applies to all opposites, even if it’s not always stated explicitly—they are actually created from each other, and there’s a transition or process from one to the other.

Very true, he replied.

So true, he replied.

Well, and is there not an opposite of life, as sleep is the opposite of waking?

Well, isn't there an opposite to life, just like sleep is the opposite of being awake?

True, he said.

He said, "True."

And what is it?

What is it?

Death, he answered.

"Death," he replied.

And these, if they are opposites, are generated the one from the other, and have there their two intermediate processes also?

And if these are opposites, do they generate each other and have their two intermediate processes as well?

Of course.

Sure thing.

Now, said Socrates, I will analyze one of the two pairs of opposites which I have mentioned to you, and also its intermediate processes, and you shall analyze the other to me. One of them I term sleep, the other waking. The state of sleep is opposed to the state of waking, and out of sleeping waking is generated, and out of waking, sleeping; and the process of generation is in the one case falling asleep, and in the other waking up. Do you agree?

Now, said Socrates, I'm going to analyze one of the two pairs of opposites I've mentioned to you, along with its intermediate processes, and I want you to analyze the other for me. One of them is sleep, and the other is waking. Sleep is the opposite of waking, and waking comes from sleep, while sleep comes from waking; the process of this transition is falling asleep in one case and waking up in the other. Do you agree?

I entirely agree.

I totally agree.

Then, suppose that you analyze life and death to me in the same manner. Is not death opposed to life?

Then, suppose you explain life and death to me in the same way. Isn't death the opposite of life?

Yes.

Yes.

And they are generated one from the other?

And they come from one another?

Yes.

Yes.

What is generated from the living?

What comes from the living?

The dead.

The deceased.

And what from the dead?

What about the dead?

I can only say in answer—the living.

I can only say in response—the living.

Then the living, whether things or persons, Cebes, are generated from the dead?

Then the living, whether they are things or people, Cebes, come from the dead?

That is clear, he replied.

That’s clear, he replied.

Then the inference is that our souls exist in the world below?

Then the conclusion is that our souls exist in the underworld?

That is true.

That's true.

And one of the two processes or generations is visible—for surely the act of dying is visible?

And one of the two processes or generations is visible—for surely the act of dying is noticeable?

Surely, he said.

Definitely, he said.

What then is to be the result? Shall we exclude the opposite process? And shall we suppose nature to walk on one leg only? Must we not rather assign to death some corresponding process of generation?

What is the outcome going to be? Should we ignore the opposing process? Can we really think that nature only operates on one leg? Shouldn’t we instead associate death with some corresponding process of creation?

Certainly, he replied.

Sure, he replied.

And what is that process?

What's that process?

Return to life.

Come back to life.

And return to life, if there be such a thing, is the birth of the dead into the world of the living?

And coming back to life, if that even exists, is the rebirth of the dead into the world of the living?

Quite true.

Absolutely.

Then here is a new way by which we arrive at the conclusion that the living come from the dead, just as the dead come from the living; and this, if true, affords a most certain proof that the souls of the dead exist in some place out of which they come again.

Then here's a new way to reach the conclusion that the living come from the dead, just like the dead come from the living; and if this is true, it provides strong evidence that the souls of the dead exist in some place from which they return.

Yes, Socrates, he said; the conclusion seems to flow necessarily out of our previous admissions.

Yes, Socrates, he said; the conclusion seems to follow naturally from what we acknowledged earlier.

And that these admissions were not unfair, Cebes, he said, may be shown, I think, as follows: If generation were in a straight line only, and there were no compensation or circle in nature, no turn or return of elements into their opposites, then you know that all things would at last have the same form and pass into the same state, and there would be no more generation of them.

And to show that these admissions were not unfair, Cebes, he said, might be explained like this: If generation only occurred in a straight line, with no compensation or cycle in nature, and no turning or returning of elements into their opposites, then you know that everything would eventually have the same form and reach the same state, and there would be no more generation of them.

What do you mean? he said.

What do you mean? he asked.

A simple thing enough, which I will illustrate by the case of sleep, he replied. You know that if there were no alternation of sleeping and waking, the tale of the sleeping Endymion would in the end have no meaning, because all other things would be asleep, too, and he would not be distinguishable from the rest. Or if there were composition only, and no division of substances, then the chaos of Anaxagoras would come again. And in like manner, my dear Cebes, if all things which partook of life were to die, and after they were dead remained in the form of death, and did not come to life again, all would at last die, and nothing would be alive—what other result could there be? For if the living spring from any other things, and they too die, must not all things at last be swallowed up in death? (But compare Republic.)

It's quite simple, which I’ll explain using sleep as an example, he replied. You know that if there were no cycle of sleeping and waking, the story of the sleeping Endymion would ultimately make no sense, because everything else would also be asleep, and he wouldn't be distinguishable from the rest. Or if there were only combinations and no separation of substances, then we would end up back in the chaos of Anaxagoras. In the same way, my dear Cebes, if everything that has life were to die and then stayed in the state of death without coming back to life, everything would eventually die, and nothing would be alive—what other outcome could there be? Because if living things come from anything else, and those also die, wouldn't everything eventually be consumed by death? (But compare Republic.)

There is no escape, Socrates, said Cebes; and to me your argument seems to be absolutely true.

"There’s no way out, Socrates," said Cebes, "and to me, your argument seems completely true."

Yes, he said, Cebes, it is and must be so, in my opinion; and we have not been deluded in making these admissions; but I am confident that there truly is such a thing as living again, and that the living spring from the dead, and that the souls of the dead are in existence, and that the good souls have a better portion than the evil.

Yes, he said, Cebes, I believe that it is and must be this way; we haven't been fooled by these statements. I am sure that there is indeed a concept of living again, that the living arise from the dead, and that the souls of the dead still exist, with the good souls having a better fate than the bad ones.

Cebes added: Your favorite doctrine, Socrates, that knowledge is simply recollection, if true, also necessarily implies a previous time in which we have learned that which we now recollect. But this would be impossible unless our soul had been in some place before existing in the form of man; here then is another proof of the soul's immortality.

Cebes added: Your favorite idea, Socrates, that knowledge is just recollection, if that’s true, also means there had to be a time before when we learned what we now remember. But this wouldn't be possible unless our soul had been somewhere before being in a human form; so here’s another proof of the soul's immortality.

But tell me, Cebes, said Simmias, interposing, what arguments are urged in favour of this doctrine of recollection. I am not very sure at the moment that I remember them.

But tell me, Cebes, Simmias interjected, what arguments are put forth in support of this idea of recollection? I'm not quite sure at the moment that I remember them.

One excellent proof, said Cebes, is afforded by questions. If you put a question to a person in a right way, he will give a true answer of himself, but how could he do this unless there were knowledge and right reason already in him? And this is most clearly shown when he is taken to a diagram or to anything of that sort. (Compare Meno.)

One great proof, Cebes said, comes from asking questions. If you ask someone a question the right way, they'll give an honest answer about themselves, but how could they do that if they didn't already have knowledge and good reasoning within them? This is most evident when they're shown a diagram or something similar. (Compare Meno.)

But if, said Socrates, you are still incredulous, Simmias, I would ask you whether you may not agree with me when you look at the matter in another way;—I mean, if you are still incredulous as to whether knowledge is recollection.

But if, Socrates said, you're still skeptical, Simmias, I’d like to ask if you might see things differently; I mean, if you still doubt that knowledge is a form of recollection.

Incredulous, I am not, said Simmias; but I want to have this doctrine of recollection brought to my own recollection, and, from what Cebes has said, I am beginning to recollect and be convinced; but I should still like to hear what you were going to say.

"Incredulous, I am not," said Simmias; "but I want to have this idea of recollection clarified in my mind, and based on what Cebes has said, I'm starting to remember and be convinced; however, I would still like to hear what you were planning to say."

This is what I would say, he replied:—We should agree, if I am not mistaken, that what a man recollects he must have known at some previous time.

This is what I would say, he replied:—We should agree, if I'm not wrong, that what a person remembers must have been known to them at some point before.

Very true.

So true.

And what is the nature of this knowledge or recollection? I mean to ask, Whether a person who, having seen or heard or in any way perceived anything, knows not only that, but has a conception of something else which is the subject, not of the same but of some other kind of knowledge, may not be fairly said to recollect that of which he has the conception?

And what is the nature of this knowledge or memory? I want to know if a person who has seen, heard, or in any way perceived something knows not just that, but also has an idea of something else, which is related to a different type of knowledge. Can we reasonably say that they remember what they have in mind?

What do you mean?

What do you mean?

I mean what I may illustrate by the following instance:—The knowledge of a lyre is not the same as the knowledge of a man?

I mean what I can show with this example:—Knowing how to play a lyre isn’t the same as knowing a person.

True.

True.

And yet what is the feeling of lovers when they recognize a lyre, or a garment, or anything else which the beloved has been in the habit of using? Do not they, from knowing the lyre, form in the mind's eye an image of the youth to whom the lyre belongs? And this is recollection. In like manner any one who sees Simmias may remember Cebes; and there are endless examples of the same thing.

And yet, what do lovers feel when they see a lyre, a piece of clothing, or anything else that their beloved has used? Don’t they create a mental picture of the person who owns the lyre just by recognizing it? That’s what we call recollection. Similarly, anyone who sees Simmias might remember Cebes, and there are countless examples of this kind of connection.

Endless, indeed, replied Simmias.

"Endless, indeed," replied Simmias.

And recollection is most commonly a process of recovering that which has been already forgotten through time and inattention.

And remembering is usually about bringing back what has been forgotten over time and neglect.

Very true, he said.

So true, he said.

Well; and may you not also from seeing the picture of a horse or a lyre remember a man? and from the picture of Simmias, you may be led to remember Cebes?

Well; and can't you also, by looking at the picture of a horse or a lyre, remember a man? And from the picture of Simmias, you might be reminded of Cebes?

True.

True.

Or you may also be led to the recollection of Simmias himself?

Or might you also remember Simmias himself?

Quite so.

Exactly.

And in all these cases, the recollection may be derived from things either like or unlike?

And in all these cases, can the memory come from things that are either similar or different?

It may be.

It might be.

And when the recollection is derived from like things, then another consideration is sure to arise, which is—whether the likeness in any degree falls short or not of that which is recollected?

And when the memory comes from similar things, another question will definitely come up, which is—whether the similarity in any way falls short of what is being remembered?

Very true, he said.

So true, he said.

And shall we proceed a step further, and affirm that there is such a thing as equality, not of one piece of wood or stone with another, but that, over and above this, there is absolute equality? Shall we say so?

And should we take it a step further and claim that there is such a thing as equality, not just between one piece of wood or stone and another, but that, beyond that, there is absolute equality? Should we say that?

Say so, yes, replied Simmias, and swear to it, with all the confidence in life.

"Absolutely," replied Simmias, "and promise it with total confidence."

And do we know the nature of this absolute essence?

And do we understand the nature of this absolute essence?

To be sure, he said.

For sure, he said.

And whence did we obtain our knowledge? Did we not see equalities of material things, such as pieces of wood and stones, and gather from them the idea of an equality which is different from them? For you will acknowledge that there is a difference. Or look at the matter in another way:—Do not the same pieces of wood or stone appear at one time equal, and at another time unequal?

And where did we get our knowledge? Didn't we observe similarities in physical objects, like pieces of wood and stones, and derive the concept of equality that is distinct from those objects? You have to agree that there is a difference. Or consider it this way: don't the same pieces of wood or stone sometimes seem equal and other times seem unequal?

That is certain.

That's for sure.

But are real equals ever unequal? or is the idea of equality the same as of inequality?

But are true equals ever unequal? Or is the concept of equality the same as that of inequality?

Impossible, Socrates.

Not possible, Socrates.

Then these (so-called) equals are not the same with the idea of equality?

Then these (so-called) equals are not the same as the idea of equality?

I should say, clearly not, Socrates.

I should say, definitely not, Socrates.

And yet from these equals, although differing from the idea of equality, you conceived and attained that idea?

And yet from these equals, even though they differ from the concept of equality, you imagined and achieved that idea?

Very true, he said.

So true, he said.

Which might be like, or might be unlike them?

Which could be similar to them, or could be different from them?

Yes.

Yes.

But that makes no difference; whenever from seeing one thing you conceived another, whether like or unlike, there must surely have been an act of recollection?

But that doesn't matter; every time you see one thing and think of another, whether it’s similar or different, there must have been an act of remembering, right?

Very true.

So true.

But what would you say of equal portions of wood and stone, or other material equals? and what is the impression produced by them? Are they equals in the same sense in which absolute equality is equal? or do they fall short of this perfect equality in a measure?

But what would you say about equal amounts of wood and stone, or other equal materials? And what impression do they create? Are they equal in the same way that absolute equality is considered equal? Or do they lack this perfect equality to some extent?

Yes, he said, in a very great measure too.

Yes, he said, to a large extent.

And must we not allow, that when I or any one, looking at any object, observes that the thing which he sees aims at being some other thing, but falls short of, and cannot be, that other thing, but is inferior, he who makes this observation must have had a previous knowledge of that to which the other, although similar, was inferior?

And shouldn't we agree that when I or anyone looks at something and sees that it tries to be something else, but it falls short and can't actually become that other thing, being less than it, the person making this observation must have already known about that other thing to which the similar one is inferior?

Certainly.

Sure thing.

And has not this been our own case in the matter of equals and of absolute equality?

And hasn't this been our situation when it comes to equals and absolute equality?

Precisely.

Exactly.

Then we must have known equality previously to the time when we first saw the material equals, and reflected that all these apparent equals strive to attain absolute equality, but fall short of it?

Then we must have understood equality before we first encountered the material equals and recognized that all these seemingly equal individuals aim to achieve absolute equality, yet fall short of it?

Very true.

So true.

And we recognize also that this absolute equality has only been known, and can only be known, through the medium of sight or touch, or of some other of the senses, which are all alike in this respect?

And we also acknowledge that this complete equality has only been understood, and can only be understood, through the senses, like sight or touch, which are all similar in this regard?

Yes, Socrates, as far as the argument is concerned, one of them is the same as the other.

Yes, Socrates, in terms of the argument, one of them is the same as the other.

From the senses then is derived the knowledge that all sensible things aim at an absolute equality of which they fall short?

From our senses, we gain the understanding that everything we can perceive strives for a perfect equality, which they ultimately lack.

Yes.

Yes.

Then before we began to see or hear or perceive in any way, we must have had a knowledge of absolute equality, or we could not have referred to that standard the equals which are derived from the senses?—for to that they all aspire, and of that they fall short.

Then, before we could see, hear, or perceive in any way, we must have understood absolute equality; otherwise, we couldn't have used that standard to compare the things we experience through our senses. They all aim for that standard, and they all fall short of it.

No other inference can be drawn from the previous statements.

No other conclusion can be drawn from the previous statements.

And did we not see and hear and have the use of our other senses as soon as we were born?

And didn't we see, hear, and use our other senses as soon as we were born?

Certainly.

Sure.

Then we must have acquired the knowledge of equality at some previous time?

Then we must have learned about equality at some earlier time?

Yes.

Yes.

That is to say, before we were born, I suppose?

That is to say, before we were born, I guess?

True.

True.

And if we acquired this knowledge before we were born, and were born having the use of it, then we also knew before we were born and at the instant of birth not only the equal or the greater or the less, but all other ideas; for we are not speaking only of equality, but of beauty, goodness, justice, holiness, and of all which we stamp with the name of essence in the dialectical process, both when we ask and when we answer questions. Of all this we may certainly affirm that we acquired the knowledge before birth?

And if we gained this knowledge before we were born and came into the world already using it, then we also knew before birth and at the moment of birth not just the concepts of greater, lesser, or equal, but all other ideas too. We're not just talking about equality here; we mean beauty, goodness, justice, holiness, and everything we label as essence in our discussions, whether we’re asking or answering questions. Can we definitely say that we acquired this knowledge before we were born?

We may.

We might.

But if, after having acquired, we have not forgotten what in each case we acquired, then we must always have come into life having knowledge, and shall always continue to know as long as life lasts—for knowing is the acquiring and retaining knowledge and not forgetting. Is not forgetting, Simmias, just the losing of knowledge?

But if, after we’ve learned something, we haven’t forgotten it, then we must have come into life with some knowledge and will keep knowing as long as we live—since knowing is about gaining and keeping knowledge and not forgetting. Isn’t forgetting, Simmias, just losing knowledge?

Quite true, Socrates.

So true, Socrates.

But if the knowledge which we acquired before birth was lost by us at birth, and if afterwards by the use of the senses we recovered what we previously knew, will not the process which we call learning be a recovering of the knowledge which is natural to us, and may not this be rightly termed recollection?

But if the knowledge we had before we were born was lost to us at birth, and if later we regain what we once knew through our senses, then isn't the process we call learning really just a rediscovery of the knowledge that is natural to us? And can this not be accurately called recollection?

Very true.

So true.

So much is clear—that when we perceive something, either by the help of sight, or hearing, or some other sense, from that perception we are able to obtain a notion of some other thing like or unlike which is associated with it but has been forgotten. Whence, as I was saying, one of two alternatives follows:—either we had this knowledge at birth, and continued to know through life; or, after birth, those who are said to learn only remember, and learning is simply recollection.

So much is clear—that when we perceive something, whether through sight, hearing, or another sense, we can form an idea of something else similar or different that is associated with it but has been overlooked. Therefore, as I mentioned, one of two options follows: either we were born with this knowledge and retained it throughout our lives, or after birth, those who are said to learn are actually just remembering, and learning is simply recalling what we already knew.

Yes, that is quite true, Socrates.

Yes, that's totally true, Socrates.

And which alternative, Simmias, do you prefer? Had we the knowledge at our birth, or did we recollect the things which we knew previously to our birth?

And which option do you prefer, Simmias? Did we have the knowledge when we were born, or did we remember things we knew before we were born?

I cannot decide at the moment.

I can't decide at the moment.

At any rate you can decide whether he who has knowledge will or will not be able to render an account of his knowledge? What do you say?

At any rate, can you decide whether someone who has knowledge can or cannot explain it? What do you think?

Certainly, he will.

Of course, he will.

But do you think that every man is able to give an account of these very matters about which we are speaking?

But do you think every guy can explain these same things we're talking about?

Would that they could, Socrates, but I rather fear that to-morrow, at this time, there will no longer be any one alive who is able to give an account of them such as ought to be given.

I wish they could, Socrates, but I'm afraid that by tomorrow at this time, there won’t be anyone left who can provide the kind of account they deserve.

Then you are not of opinion, Simmias, that all men know these things?

Then you don't think, Simmias, that everyone knows these things?

Certainly not.

Definitely not.

They are in process of recollecting that which they learned before?

Are they in the process of recalling what they learned before?

Certainly.

Sure.

But when did our souls acquire this knowledge?—not since we were born as men?

But when did our souls gain this knowledge?—was it not since we were born as humans?

Certainly not.

Definitely not.

And therefore, previously?

And so, before?

Yes.

Yes.

Then, Simmias, our souls must also have existed without bodies before they were in the form of man, and must have had intelligence.

Then, Simmias, our souls must have existed without bodies before they took on human form, and must have had intelligence.

Unless indeed you suppose, Socrates, that these notions are given us at the very moment of birth; for this is the only time which remains.

Unless you really think, Socrates, that we receive these ideas at the moment we're born; because that's the only time left.

Yes, my friend, but if so, when do we lose them? for they are not in us when we are born—that is admitted. Do we lose them at the moment of receiving them, or if not at what other time?

Yes, my friend, but if that’s the case, when do we lose them? They aren’t in us when we’re born—that’s a given. Do we lose them as soon as we get them, or if not, when else does it happen?

No, Socrates, I perceive that I was unconsciously talking nonsense.

No, Socrates, I realize that I was unknowingly talking nonsense.

Then may we not say, Simmias, that if, as we are always repeating, there is an absolute beauty, and goodness, and an absolute essence of all things; and if to this, which is now discovered to have existed in our former state, we refer all our sensations, and with this compare them, finding these ideas to be pre-existent and our inborn possession—then our souls must have had a prior existence, but if not, there would be no force in the argument? There is the same proof that these ideas must have existed before we were born, as that our souls existed before we were born; and if not the ideas, then not the souls.

Then can we not say, Simmias, that if, as we keep saying, there is an absolute beauty, goodness, and essence of all things; and if we relate all our experiences to this, which we now understand existed before our current state, and compare our sensations with it, discovering that these ideas were pre-existing and are something we are born with—then our souls must have existed before this life. If that’s not the case, then the argument loses its strength. There is just as much evidence that these ideas existed before we were born as that our souls did; and if the ideas didn’t exist, then neither did the souls.

Yes, Socrates; I am convinced that there is precisely the same necessity for the one as for the other; and the argument retreats successfully to the position that the existence of the soul before birth cannot be separated from the existence of the essence of which you speak. For there is nothing which to my mind is so patent as that beauty, goodness, and the other notions of which you were just now speaking, have a most real and absolute existence; and I am satisfied with the proof.

Yes, Socrates; I'm convinced that there's exactly the same need for one as for the other; and the argument successfully returns to the idea that the existence of the soul before birth is inseparable from the essence you just mentioned. To me, nothing is as clear as the fact that beauty, goodness, and the other concepts you were just discussing have a very real and absolute existence; and I'm satisfied with the evidence.

Well, but is Cebes equally satisfied? for I must convince him too.

Well, is Cebes just as satisfied? Because I need to convince him as well.

I think, said Simmias, that Cebes is satisfied: although he is the most incredulous of mortals, yet I believe that he is sufficiently convinced of the existence of the soul before birth. But that after death the soul will continue to exist is not yet proven even to my own satisfaction. I cannot get rid of the feeling of the many to which Cebes was referring—the feeling that when the man dies the soul will be dispersed, and that this may be the extinction of her. For admitting that she may have been born elsewhere, and framed out of other elements, and was in existence before entering the human body, why after having entered in and gone out again may she not herself be destroyed and come to an end?

"I think," said Simmias, "that Cebes is convinced. Even though he's the most skeptical person around, I believe he is pretty sure about the existence of the soul before birth. However, whether the soul will continue to exist after death still isn’t proven to my satisfaction. I can’t shake off the common feeling that Cebes mentioned—the belief that when a person dies, the soul is scattered and that could mean its end. Considering that it may have originated elsewhere, made of different elements, and existed before entering the human body, why couldn’t it be destroyed after exiting and simply cease to exist?"

Very true, Simmias, said Cebes; about half of what was required has been proven; to wit, that our souls existed before we were born:—that the soul will exist after death as well as before birth is the other half of which the proof is still wanting, and has to be supplied; when that is given the demonstration will be complete.

Very true, Simmias, said Cebes; about half of what we needed to prove is established: that our souls existed before we were born. The other half, which shows that the soul will exist after death as well as before birth, still needs to be proven. Once that is provided, the demonstration will be complete.

But that proof, Simmias and Cebes, has been already given, said Socrates, if you put the two arguments together—I mean this and the former one, in which we admitted that everything living is born of the dead. For if the soul exists before birth, and in coming to life and being born can be born only from death and dying, must she not after death continue to exist, since she has to be born again?—Surely the proof which you desire has been already furnished. Still I suspect that you and Simmias would be glad to probe the argument further. Like children, you are haunted with a fear that when the soul leaves the body, the wind may really blow her away and scatter her; especially if a man should happen to die in a great storm and not when the sky is calm.

But that evidence, Simmias and Cebes, has already been provided, said Socrates, if you combine the two arguments—I mean this one and the previous one, where we agreed that everything living comes from the dead. If the soul exists before birth and can only come to life and be born through death, doesn’t that mean she must continue to exist after death since she has to be born again?—Surely the proof you’re looking for has already been given. Still, I think you and Simmias would like to explore the argument more. Like children, you seem to be worried that when the soul leaves the body, the wind might actually carry her away and scatter her; especially if someone dies during a big storm rather than when the weather is calm.

Cebes answered with a smile: Then, Socrates, you must argue us out of our fears—and yet, strictly speaking, they are not our fears, but there is a child within us to whom death is a sort of hobgoblin; him too we must persuade not to be afraid when he is alone in the dark.

Cebes replied with a smile: So, Socrates, you need to help us overcome our fears—and really, they aren’t just our fears; there’s a child inside us who sees death as a kind of monster. We also need to convince that child not to be scared when he is alone in the dark.

Socrates said: Let the voice of the charmer be applied daily until you have charmed away the fear.

Socrates said: Let the charm's voice be used every day until you have eased the fear.

And where shall we find a good charmer of our fears, Socrates, when you are gone?

And where will we find a good person to calm our fears, Socrates, when you’re gone?

Hellas, he replied, is a large place, Cebes, and has many good men, and there are barbarous races not a few: seek for him among them all, far and wide, sparing neither pains nor money; for there is no better way of spending your money. And you must seek among yourselves too; for you will not find others better able to make the search.

Hellas, he replied, is a vast place, Cebes, with many good people, and there are quite a few barbaric races as well: search for him everywhere, near and far, wasting neither effort nor money; because there's no better way to spend your money. And you should also look among yourselves; for you won't find anyone better suited to carry out the search.

The search, replied Cebes, shall certainly be made. And now, if you please, let us return to the point of the argument at which we digressed.

"The search, Cebes replied, will definitely be done. Now, if it’s alright with you, let’s get back to the point of the argument where we got sidetracked."

By all means, replied Socrates; what else should I please?

"Of course," Socrates replied; "what else should I make happy?"

Very good.

Great.

Must we not, said Socrates, ask ourselves what that is which, as we imagine, is liable to be scattered, and about which we fear? and what again is that about which we have no fear? And then we may proceed further to enquire whether that which suffers dispersion is or is not of the nature of soul—our hopes and fears as to our own souls will turn upon the answers to these questions.

Must we not, said Socrates, ask ourselves what it is that we think might be scattered and what we are afraid of? And what is it that we don't fear? Then we can go on to explore whether what gets scattered is or isn't like the soul—our hopes and fears about our own souls will depend on the answers to these questions.

Very true, he said.

So true, he said.

Now the compound or composite may be supposed to be naturally capable, as of being compounded, so also of being dissolved; but that which is uncompounded, and that only, must be, if anything is, indissoluble.

Now the compound or composite can be thought of as naturally able to be combined, just as it can also be separated; however, only what is not compounded must be, if anything is, indissoluble.

Yes; I should imagine so, said Cebes.

Yes, I can imagine that, said Cebes.

And the uncompounded may be assumed to be the same and unchanging, whereas the compound is always changing and never the same.

And the simple can be thought of as the same and unchanging, while the complex is always changing and never the same.

I agree, he said.

"Agreed," he said.

Then now let us return to the previous discussion. Is that idea or essence, which in the dialectical process we define as essence or true existence—whether essence of equality, beauty, or anything else—are these essences, I say, liable at times to some degree of change? or are they each of them always what they are, having the same simple self-existent and unchanging forms, not admitting of variation at all, or in any way, or at any time?

Then let’s go back to the earlier discussion. Are those ideas or essences, which we define in the dialectical process as essence or true existence—whether it’s the essence of equality, beauty, or anything else—subject to some degree of change at times? Or are they all always exactly what they are, having the same simple, self-existing, and unchanging forms that don’t allow for any variation at all, ever?

They must be always the same, Socrates, replied Cebes.

They always have to be the same, Socrates, Cebes replied.

And what would you say of the many beautiful—whether men or horses or garments or any other things which are named by the same names and may be called equal or beautiful,—are they all unchanging and the same always, or quite the reverse? May they not rather be described as almost always changing and hardly ever the same, either with themselves or with one another?

And what would you say about the many beautiful things—whether they are men, horses, garments, or anything else that shares those names and can be called equal or beautiful—are they all unchanging and the same all the time, or completely the opposite? Could they be described as almost always changing and rarely the same, either among themselves or with each other?

The latter, replied Cebes; they are always in a state of change.

The latter, Cebes replied; they’re always changing.

And these you can touch and see and perceive with the senses, but the unchanging things you can only perceive with the mind—they are invisible and are not seen?

And these you can touch, see, and perceive with your senses, but the unchanging things can only be understood with the mind—they are invisible and can't be seen?

That is very true, he said.

That’s totally true, he said.

Well, then, added Socrates, let us suppose that there are two sorts of existences—one seen, the other unseen.

Well, then, Socrates added, let's assume that there are two kinds of existences—one that is seen and another that is unseen.

Let us suppose them.

Let's assume them.

The seen is the changing, and the unseen is the unchanging?

The visible is the changing, and the invisible is the unchanging?

That may be also supposed.

That might be assumed too.

And, further, is not one part of us body, another part soul?

And isn't one part of us our body, and another part our soul?

To be sure.

For sure.

And to which class is the body more alike and akin?

And which class does the body resemble and relate to more?

Clearly to the seen—no one can doubt that.

Clearly to be seen—no one can doubt that.

And is the soul seen or not seen?

And is the soul visible or invisible?

Not by man, Socrates.

Not by humans, Socrates.

And what we mean by 'seen' and 'not seen' is that which is or is not visible to the eye of man?

And what we mean by 'seen' and 'not seen' is what is or isn't visible to the human eye?

Yes, to the eye of man.

Yes, to human vision.

And is the soul seen or not seen?

And is the soul visible or invisible?

Not seen.

Not visible.

Unseen then?

Not visible then?

Yes.

Yes.

Then the soul is more like to the unseen, and the body to the seen?

Then the soul is more like the unseen, and the body like the seen?

That follows necessarily, Socrates.

That necessarily follows, Socrates.

And were we not saying long ago that the soul when using the body as an instrument of perception, that is to say, when using the sense of sight or hearing or some other sense (for the meaning of perceiving through the body is perceiving through the senses)—were we not saying that the soul too is then dragged by the body into the region of the changeable, and wanders and is confused; the world spins round her, and she is like a drunkard, when she touches change?

And weren’t we saying a while back that when the soul uses the body to perceive things, like through sight or hearing or any other sense (since perceiving through the body means perceiving through the senses)—weren’t we saying that the soul gets pulled by the body into the realm of things that change, and it wanders and gets confused; the world spins around it, and it feels like a drunk person when it encounters change?

Very true.

So true.

But when returning into herself she reflects, then she passes into the other world, the region of purity, and eternity, and immortality, and unchangeableness, which are her kindred, and with them she ever lives, when she is by herself and is not let or hindered; then she ceases from her erring ways, and being in communion with the unchanging is unchanging. And this state of the soul is called wisdom?

But when she turns inward and reflects, she enters the other world, the realm of purity, eternity, immortality, and permanence, which are her true nature. In this space, she exists alongside them, free from distractions. At that point, she stops her wandering ways, and being in connection with the unchanging makes her unchanging too. This state of the soul is called wisdom?

That is well and truly said, Socrates, he replied.

"That's very well said, Socrates," he replied.

And to which class is the soul more nearly alike and akin, as far as may be inferred from this argument, as well as from the preceding one?

And which class is the soul most similar to and connected with, based on this argument and the one before it?

I think, Socrates, that, in the opinion of every one who follows the argument, the soul will be infinitely more like the unchangeable—even the most stupid person will not deny that.

I think, Socrates, that everyone who follows the argument will agree that the soul is much more similar to the unchangeable—even the most clueless person wouldn’t deny that.

And the body is more like the changing?

And is the body more like the changing?

Yes.

Yes.

Yet once more consider the matter in another light: When the soul and the body are united, then nature orders the soul to rule and govern, and the body to obey and serve. Now which of these two functions is akin to the divine? and which to the mortal? Does not the divine appear to you to be that which naturally orders and rules, and the mortal to be that which is subject and servant?

Yet once again, think about this from a different perspective: When the soul and body are together, nature dictates that the soul should lead and govern, while the body should obey and serve. Which of these two roles do you think resembles the divine, and which one resembles the mortal? Doesn’t it seem to you that the divine is what naturally orders and rules, while the mortal is what is subordinate and serves?

True.

True.

And which does the soul resemble?

And what is the soul like?

The soul resembles the divine, and the body the mortal—there can be no doubt of that, Socrates.

The soul is like the divine, while the body is like the mortal—there's no doubt about that, Socrates.

Then reflect, Cebes: of all which has been said is not this the conclusion?—that the soul is in the very likeness of the divine, and immortal, and intellectual, and uniform, and indissoluble, and unchangeable; and that the body is in the very likeness of the human, and mortal, and unintellectual, and multiform, and dissoluble, and changeable. Can this, my dear Cebes, be denied?

Then think about this, Cebes: isn't this the conclusion of everything that's been said?—that the soul resembles the divine; it's immortal, intellectual, uniform, indestructible, and unchanging; while the body resembles humans; it's mortal, unthinking, diverse, breakable, and subject to change. Can this, my dear Cebes, be denied?

It cannot.

It can't.

But if it be true, then is not the body liable to speedy dissolution? and is not the soul almost or altogether indissoluble?

But if it’s true, then is the body not likely to break down quickly? And is the soul not almost or completely unbreakable?

Certainly.

Sure.

And do you further observe, that after a man is dead, the body, or visible part of him, which is lying in the visible world, and is called a corpse, and would naturally be dissolved and decomposed and dissipated, is not dissolved or decomposed at once, but may remain for a for some time, nay even for a long time, if the constitution be sound at the time of death, and the season of the year favourable? For the body when shrunk and embalmed, as the manner is in Egypt, may remain almost entire through infinite ages; and even in decay, there are still some portions, such as the bones and ligaments, which are practically indestructible:—Do you agree?

And do you also notice that after a person dies, the body, or the visible part of them, lying in the physical world, which is called a corpse, doesn’t immediately dissolve or decompose? It can remain intact for a while, even for a long time, if the body was healthy at the time of death and the weather is favorable. For example, when a body is dried out and embalmed, as is common in Egypt, it can remain mostly whole for countless ages. Even as it decays, some parts, like the bones and ligaments, are practically indestructible. Do you agree?

Yes.

Yes.

And is it likely that the soul, which is invisible, in passing to the place of the true Hades, which like her is invisible, and pure, and noble, and on her way to the good and wise God, whither, if God will, my soul is also soon to go,—that the soul, I repeat, if this be her nature and origin, will be blown away and destroyed immediately on quitting the body, as the many say? That can never be, my dear Simmias and Cebes. The truth rather is, that the soul which is pure at departing and draws after her no bodily taint, having never voluntarily during life had connection with the body, which she is ever avoiding, herself gathered into herself;—and making such abstraction her perpetual study—which means that she has been a true disciple of philosophy; and therefore has in fact been always engaged in the practice of dying? For is not philosophy the practice of death?—

Is it really likely that the soul, which is invisible, would just disappear and be destroyed as soon as it leaves the body, heading to the true Hades, which is also invisible, pure, and noble? And on its way to the good and wise God, where my soul will go soon if God permits? I can’t believe that, my dear Simmias and Cebes. The reality is that a soul that departs in purity and is free from any physical taint, having never willingly engaged with the body during its life, which it consistently tries to avoid, gathers itself together; and making this kind of focus its constant goal—this means that it has been a true student of philosophy, and therefore has actually been practicing dying all along. After all, isn’t philosophy the practice of death?

Certainly—

Sure—

That soul, I say, herself invisible, departs to the invisible world—to the divine and immortal and rational: thither arriving, she is secure of bliss and is released from the error and folly of men, their fears and wild passions and all other human ills, and for ever dwells, as they say of the initiated, in company with the gods (compare Apol.). Is not this true, Cebes?

That soul, I say, being invisible, goes to the unseen world—to the divine, immortal, and rational realm. Once she arrives there, she is assured of happiness and is freed from the mistakes and foolishness of humanity, including their fears, wild emotions, and all other human struggles. She forever resides, as those who are initiated say, among the gods (compare Apol.). Is this not true, Cebes?

Yes, said Cebes, beyond a doubt.

Yes, Cebes replied, without a doubt.

But the soul which has been polluted, and is impure at the time of her departure, and is the companion and servant of the body always, and is in love with and fascinated by the body and by the desires and pleasures of the body, until she is led to believe that the truth only exists in a bodily form, which a man may touch and see and taste, and use for the purposes of his lusts,—the soul, I mean, accustomed to hate and fear and avoid the intellectual principle, which to the bodily eye is dark and invisible, and can be attained only by philosophy;—do you suppose that such a soul will depart pure and unalloyed?

But the soul that has been tainted and is impure at the time of its departure, always connected to and serving the body, and captivated by the body and its desires and pleasures, believes that truth exists only in a physical form that one can touch, see, taste, and exploit for personal lusts. This soul, used to hating, fearing, and shunning the intellectual principles that are dark and invisible to the physical eye and can only be grasped through philosophy—do you really think such a soul will leave in a pure and unblemished state?

Impossible, he replied.

Not possible, he replied.

She is held fast by the corporeal, which the continual association and constant care of the body have wrought into her nature.

She is strongly tied to the physical world, shaped by her ongoing connection and consistent attention to her body.

Very true.

So true.

And this corporeal element, my friend, is heavy and weighty and earthy, and is that element of sight by which a soul is depressed and dragged down again into the visible world, because she is afraid of the invisible and of the world below—prowling about tombs and sepulchres, near which, as they tell us, are seen certain ghostly apparitions of souls which have not departed pure, but are cloyed with sight and therefore visible.

And this physical element, my friend, is heavy, solid, and earthy, and it's the part of sight that makes a soul feel weighed down and dragged back into the visible world because it's scared of the invisible and the underworld—wandering around graves and tombs, near which, as they say, certain ghostly figures of souls can be seen, souls that haven't left in peace but are burdened by their sights and therefore visible.

(Compare Milton, Comus:—

(See Milton, Comus:—

     'But when lust,
     By unchaste looks, loose gestures, and foul talk,
     But most by lewd and lavish act of sin,
     Lets in defilement to the inward parts,
     The soul grows clotted by contagion,
     Imbodies, and imbrutes, till she quite lose,
     The divine property of her first being.
     Such are those thick and gloomy shadows damp
     Oft seen in charnel vaults and sepulchres,
     Lingering, and sitting by a new made grave,
     As loath to leave the body that it lov'd,
     And linked itself by carnal sensuality
     To a degenerate and degraded state.')
'But when lust,  
By impure looks, loose gestures, and filthy talk,  
But mostly by sinful and reckless actions,  
Invites corruption into the inner self,  
The soul becomes tainted by infection,  
Physical and brutish, until it completely loses,  
The divine essence of its original being.  
Such are those thick and gloomy shadows,  
Often seen in burial vaults and graves,  
Lingering and sitting by a freshly dug grave,  
Reluctant to leave the body it loved,  
And tied itself through physical desire  
To a degraded and fallen state.'

That is very likely, Socrates.

That's pretty likely, Socrates.

Yes, that is very likely, Cebes; and these must be the souls, not of the good, but of the evil, which are compelled to wander about such places in payment of the penalty of their former evil way of life; and they continue to wander until through the craving after the corporeal which never leaves them, they are imprisoned finally in another body. And they may be supposed to find their prisons in the same natures which they have had in their former lives.

Yes, that seems very likely, Cebes; and these must be the souls, not of the good, but of the evil, who are forced to roam around such places as a punishment for their past wrongdoings; they keep wandering until their constant desire for the physical, which never fades, finally traps them in another body. It's likely that they end up in the same kinds of lives they had before.

What natures do you mean, Socrates?

What natures are you talking about, Socrates?

What I mean is that men who have followed after gluttony, and wantonness, and drunkenness, and have had no thought of avoiding them, would pass into asses and animals of that sort. What do you think?

What I mean is that men who indulge in excess, impulsiveness, and drinking without any intention of avoiding these behaviors would become like donkeys and other animals. What do you think?

I think such an opinion to be exceedingly probable.

I think such an opinion is very likely.

And those who have chosen the portion of injustice, and tyranny, and violence, will pass into wolves, or into hawks and kites;—whither else can we suppose them to go?

And those who have chosen the path of injustice, tyranny, and violence will become wolves, or hawks and kites;—where else can we think they would go?

Yes, said Cebes; with such natures, beyond question.

Yes, said Cebes; with those kinds of people, for sure.

And there is no difficulty, he said, in assigning to all of them places answering to their several natures and propensities?

And he said it’s not hard to give each of them roles that match their different personalities and inclinations?

There is not, he said.

There isn't, he said.

Some are happier than others; and the happiest both in themselves and in the place to which they go are those who have practised the civil and social virtues which are called temperance and justice, and are acquired by habit and attention without philosophy and mind. (Compare Republic.)

Some people are happier than others; and the happiest, both within themselves and in the places they go, are those who have practiced the civil and social virtues known as temperance and justice. These virtues are gained through habit and focus rather than through philosophy and intellect. (Compare Republic.)

Why are they the happiest?

Why are they so happy?

Because they may be expected to pass into some gentle and social kind which is like their own, such as bees or wasps or ants, or back again into the form of man, and just and moderate men may be supposed to spring from them.

Because they might be expected to transform into some gentle and social type similar to their own, like bees, wasps, or ants, or revert back to human form, and it's possible that just and moderate individuals could arise from them.

Very likely.

Most likely.

No one who has not studied philosophy and who is not entirely pure at the time of his departure is allowed to enter the company of the Gods, but the lover of knowledge only. And this is the reason, Simmias and Cebes, why the true votaries of philosophy abstain from all fleshly lusts, and hold out against them and refuse to give themselves up to them,—not because they fear poverty or the ruin of their families, like the lovers of money, and the world in general; nor like the lovers of power and honour, because they dread the dishonour or disgrace of evil deeds.

No one who hasn't studied philosophy and isn't completely pure at the time of their departure is allowed to join the company of the Gods, only the lover of knowledge. And this is why, Simmias and Cebes, true followers of philosophy stay away from all physical desires, resist them, and refuse to give in to them—not because they fear poverty or the downfall of their families, like those who love money and the world in general; nor like those who crave power and honor, because they worry about the disgrace or shame of wrongdoing.

No, Socrates, that would not become them, said Cebes.

No, Socrates, that wouldn’t suit them, Cebes said.

No indeed, he replied; and therefore they who have any care of their own souls, and do not merely live moulding and fashioning the body, say farewell to all this; they will not walk in the ways of the blind: and when philosophy offers them purification and release from evil, they feel that they ought not to resist her influence, and whither she leads they turn and follow.

No, he replied; and so those who truly care for their souls, and do not just focus on shaping their bodies, say goodbye to all this; they won’t follow the paths of the blind. When philosophy offers them a way to cleanse themselves and escape from wrongdoing, they understand that they shouldn't resist its guidance, and wherever it leads, they turn and follow.

What do you mean, Socrates?

What do you mean, Socrates?

I will tell you, he said. The lovers of knowledge are conscious that the soul was simply fastened and glued to the body—until philosophy received her, she could only view real existence through the bars of a prison, not in and through herself; she was wallowing in the mire of every sort of ignorance; and by reason of lust had become the principal accomplice in her own captivity. This was her original state; and then, as I was saying, and as the lovers of knowledge are well aware, philosophy, seeing how terrible was her confinement, of which she was to herself the cause, received and gently comforted her and sought to release her, pointing out that the eye and the ear and the other senses are full of deception, and persuading her to retire from them, and abstain from all but the necessary use of them, and be gathered up and collected into herself, bidding her trust in herself and her own pure apprehension of pure existence, and to mistrust whatever comes to her through other channels and is subject to variation; for such things are visible and tangible, but what she sees in her own nature is intelligible and invisible. And the soul of the true philosopher thinks that she ought not to resist this deliverance, and therefore abstains from pleasures and desires and pains and fears, as far as she is able; reflecting that when a man has great joys or sorrows or fears or desires, he suffers from them, not merely the sort of evil which might be anticipated—as for example, the loss of his health or property which he has sacrificed to his lusts—but an evil greater far, which is the greatest and worst of all evils, and one of which he never thinks.

“I’ll tell you,” he said. Those who love knowledge understand that the soul was just attached and stuck to the body—until philosophy came along, it could only see real existence through the bars of a prison, not through itself; it was stuck in the muck of all kinds of ignorance; and due to desire, it had become the main accomplice in its own captivity. This was its original state; and then, as I was saying, and as lovers of knowledge know well, philosophy, seeing how terrible her confinement was, for which she herself was responsible, embraced and gently consoled her, trying to set her free, pointing out that the eye and the ear and the other senses are full of deception, and encouraging her to withdraw from them, to only use them when absolutely necessary, and to turn inward, trusting in herself and her own clear understanding of pure existence, and to be wary of everything that comes to her through external sources and is subject to change; because those things are visible and tangible, but what she perceives in her own nature is understandable and invisible. And the soul of a true philosopher believes that she shouldn’t resist this liberation, so she avoids pleasures and desires, pains and fears, as much as she can; realizing that when a person experiences great joys, sorrows, fears, or desires, they suffer from them—not just the kind of evil one might expect—like the loss of health or property sacrificed to their desires—but a much greater evil, the greatest and worst of all evils, which rarely crosses their mind.

What is it, Socrates? said Cebes.

What is it, Socrates? Cebes asked.

The evil is that when the feeling of pleasure or pain is most intense, every soul of man imagines the objects of this intense feeling to be then plainest and truest: but this is not so, they are really the things of sight.

The problem is that when feelings of pleasure or pain are at their peak, every person believes that the things causing these strong emotions are the clearest and most real. But that's not the case; they are actually just based on what we see.

Very true.

So true.

And is not this the state in which the soul is most enthralled by the body?

And isn't this the state in which the soul is most captivated by the body?

How so?

How come?

Why, because each pleasure and pain is a sort of nail which nails and rivets the soul to the body, until she becomes like the body, and believes that to be true which the body affirms to be true; and from agreeing with the body and having the same delights she is obliged to have the same habits and haunts, and is not likely ever to be pure at her departure to the world below, but is always infected by the body; and so she sinks into another body and there germinates and grows, and has therefore no part in the communion of the divine and pure and simple.

Why? Because every pleasure and pain acts like a nail that fastens the soul to the body, until it becomes like the body and believes what the body insists is true. By aligning with the body and sharing its joys, the soul is forced to adopt the same habits and environments. This keeps her from being pure when she leaves for the afterlife, as she remains tainted by the body. Consequently, she falls into another body, where she takes root and develops, thus missing out on the connection with the divine, pure, and simple.

Most true, Socrates, answered Cebes.

Most definitely, Socrates, answered Cebes.

And this, Cebes, is the reason why the true lovers of knowledge are temperate and brave; and not for the reason which the world gives.

And this, Cebes, is why true lovers of knowledge are self-disciplined and courageous, not for the reasons the world suggests.

Certainly not.

Definitely not.

Certainly not! The soul of a philosopher will reason in quite another way; she will not ask philosophy to release her in order that when released she may deliver herself up again to the thraldom of pleasures and pains, doing a work only to be undone again, weaving instead of unweaving her Penelope's web. But she will calm passion, and follow reason, and dwell in the contemplation of her, beholding the true and divine (which is not matter of opinion), and thence deriving nourishment. Thus she seeks to live while she lives, and after death she hopes to go to her own kindred and to that which is like her, and to be freed from human ills. Never fear, Simmias and Cebes, that a soul which has been thus nurtured and has had these pursuits, will at her departure from the body be scattered and blown away by the winds and be nowhere and nothing.

Definitely not! The soul of a philosopher thinks in a completely different way; she won't ask philosophy to set her free just so she can give herself back to the bondage of pleasures and pains, doing work just to have it undone again, weaving Penelope's web instead of unweaving it. Instead, she will calm her passions, follow reason, and reflect on it, perceiving the true and divine (which isn’t up for debate), and drawing nourishment from that. This way, she aims to truly live while she’s alive, and after death, she hopes to join her own kind and what is similar to her, escaping from human suffering. Never worry, Simmias and Cebes, that a soul that has been nurtured in this way and pursued these beliefs will, when she leaves the body, be scattered like dust in the wind, ending up nowhere and as nothing.

When Socrates had done speaking, for a considerable time there was silence; he himself appeared to be meditating, as most of us were, on what had been said; only Cebes and Simmias spoke a few words to one another. And Socrates observing them asked what they thought of the argument, and whether there was anything wanting? For, said he, there are many points still open to suspicion and attack, if any one were disposed to sift the matter thoroughly. Should you be considering some other matter I say no more, but if you are still in doubt do not hesitate to say exactly what you think, and let us have anything better which you can suggest; and if you think that I can be of any use, allow me to help you.

When Socrates finished speaking, there was a long silence; he seemed to be thinking deeply, just like most of us were, about what had been said. Only Cebes and Simmias exchanged a few words. Socrates noticed them and asked what they thought of the argument and if there was anything missing. He said that there are still many points that could be questioned or challenged if anyone wanted to dig deeper. If you’re thinking about something else, I won’t say more, but if you still have doubts, please share exactly what you think, and let’s discuss any better ideas you might have. If you think I can help in any way, just let me know.

Simmias said: I must confess, Socrates, that doubts did arise in our minds, and each of us was urging and inciting the other to put the question which we wanted to have answered and which neither of us liked to ask, fearing that our importunity might be troublesome under present at such a time.

Simmias said: I have to admit, Socrates, that doubts came up in our minds, and each of us was encouraging the other to ask the question we wanted to be answered, but neither of us wanted to ask it, worrying that our persistence might be annoying, especially at such a time.

Socrates replied with a smile: O Simmias, what are you saying? I am not very likely to persuade other men that I do not regard my present situation as a misfortune, if I cannot even persuade you that I am no worse off now than at any other time in my life. Will you not allow that I have as much of the spirit of prophecy in me as the swans? For they, when they perceive that they must die, having sung all their life long, do then sing more lustily than ever, rejoicing in the thought that they are about to go away to the god whose ministers they are. But men, because they are themselves afraid of death, slanderously affirm of the swans that they sing a lament at the last, not considering that no bird sings when cold, or hungry, or in pain, not even the nightingale, nor the swallow, nor yet the hoopoe; which are said indeed to tune a lay of sorrow, although I do not believe this to be true of them any more than of the swans. But because they are sacred to Apollo, they have the gift of prophecy, and anticipate the good things of another world, wherefore they sing and rejoice in that day more than they ever did before. And I too, believing myself to be the consecrated servant of the same God, and the fellow-servant of the swans, and thinking that I have received from my master gifts of prophecy which are not inferior to theirs, would not go out of life less merrily than the swans. Never mind then, if this be your only objection, but speak and ask anything which you like, while the eleven magistrates of Athens allow.

Socrates replied with a smile: Oh Simmias, what are you talking about? I’m not likely to convince other people that I see my current situation as a misfortune if I can’t even convince you that I’m no worse off now than I ever have been in my life. Will you not accept that I have as much prophetic spirit in me as the swans? Because when they know they’re about to die, after having sung their whole lives, they actually sing even louder, delighted by the thought that they’ll soon meet the god they serve. But people, out of their own fear of death, wrongly claim that swans sing a mourning song at the end, not realizing that no bird sings when it's cold, hungry, or in pain—not even the nightingale, the swallow, or the hoopoe; although they are said to sing sorrowful tunes, I don’t believe this any more than I believe it of the swans. But since they are sacred to Apollo, they possess the gift of prophecy and look forward to the joys of another world, which is why they sing and celebrate more on that day than ever before. And I, believing myself to be a chosen servant of the same God and a companion to the swans, and thinking that I’ve received prophetic gifts from my master that are just as good as theirs, wouldn’t leave this life any less cheerfully than the swans. So don’t worry if that’s your only concern, but feel free to ask me anything you want while we still have the approval of the eleven magistrates of Athens.

Very good, Socrates, said Simmias; then I will tell you my difficulty, and Cebes will tell you his. I feel myself, (and I daresay that you have the same feeling), how hard or rather impossible is the attainment of any certainty about questions such as these in the present life. And yet I should deem him a coward who did not prove what is said about them to the uttermost, or whose heart failed him before he had examined them on every side. For he should persevere until he has achieved one of two things: either he should discover, or be taught the truth about them; or, if this be impossible, I would have him take the best and most irrefragable of human theories, and let this be the raft upon which he sails through life—not without risk, as I admit, if he cannot find some word of God which will more surely and safely carry him. And now, as you bid me, I will venture to question you, and then I shall not have to reproach myself hereafter with not having said at the time what I think. For when I consider the matter, either alone or with Cebes, the argument does certainly appear to me, Socrates, to be not sufficient.

"Very good, Socrates," Simmias said. "Then I’ll share my concern, and Cebes will share his. I feel, and I bet you feel the same way, that it’s so hard—almost impossible—to get any certainty about questions like these in this life. Still, I’d consider someone a coward if they didn’t explore what’s said about them to the fullest, or if they gave up before checking every aspect. They should keep going until they achieve one of two things: either they uncover the truth about these matters or have it explained to them. But if that’s not possible, I’d want them to grab the best and most solid theory available and let that be the raft they ride through life—not without danger, I admit, if they can’t find some divine guidance that will navigate them more securely. And now, as you asked me to, I’m going to ask you questions, so I won’t later blame myself for not saying what’s on my mind. Because when I really think about it, whether alone or with Cebes, I honestly find the argument insufficient, Socrates."

Socrates answered: I dare say, my friend, that you may be right, but I should like to know in what respect the argument is insufficient.

Socrates replied: I might agree with you, my friend, but I’d like to understand how the argument falls short.

In this respect, replied Simmias:—Suppose a person to use the same argument about harmony and the lyre—might he not say that harmony is a thing invisible, incorporeal, perfect, divine, existing in the lyre which is harmonized, but that the lyre and the strings are matter and material, composite, earthy, and akin to mortality? And when some one breaks the lyre, or cuts and rends the strings, then he who takes this view would argue as you do, and on the same analogy, that the harmony survives and has not perished—you cannot imagine, he would say, that the lyre without the strings, and the broken strings themselves which are mortal remain, and yet that the harmony, which is of heavenly and immortal nature and kindred, has perished—perished before the mortal. The harmony must still be somewhere, and the wood and strings will decay before anything can happen to that. The thought, Socrates, must have occurred to your own mind that such is our conception of the soul; and that when the body is in a manner strung and held together by the elements of hot and cold, wet and dry, then the soul is the harmony or due proportionate admixture of them. But if so, whenever the strings of the body are unduly loosened or overstrained through disease or other injury, then the soul, though most divine, like other harmonies of music or of works of art, of course perishes at once, although the material remains of the body may last for a considerable time, until they are either decayed or burnt. And if any one maintains that the soul, being the harmony of the elements of the body, is first to perish in that which is called death, how shall we answer him?

In this regard, Simmias replied:—Imagine someone making the same argument about harmony and the lyre—couldn’t they say that harmony is invisible, incorporeal, perfect, and divine, existing within the lyre that is harmonized, while the lyre and the strings are just matter, physical, composite, earthy, and related to mortality? And when someone breaks the lyre or cuts the strings, that person would argue like you do, using the same analogy, that the harmony survives and hasn’t been lost—you can’t seriously believe, they would say, that the lyre without the strings, and the broken strings themselves which are mortal, can exist, while the harmony, which is of a heavenly and immortal nature, has vanished—vanished before the mortal. The harmony must still exist somewhere, and the wood and strings will decay before anything happens to that. The thought, Socrates, must have crossed your mind that this reflects our idea of the soul; that when the body is in a way strung and held together by the elements of hot and cold, wet and dry, then the soul is the harmony or proper proportion of them. But if that’s the case, whenever the strings of the body are too loosened or overstretched due to illness or other injury, then the soul, though divine, like other musical harmonies or works of art, obviously perishes immediately, even though the material parts of the body might last for a long time until they decay or are burned. And if someone claims that the soul, being the harmony of the elements of the body, is the first to perish in what we call death, how should we respond to them?

Socrates looked fixedly at us as his manner was, and said with a smile: Simmias has reason on his side; and why does not some one of you who is better able than myself answer him? for there is force in his attack upon me. But perhaps, before we answer him, we had better also hear what Cebes has to say that we may gain time for reflection, and when they have both spoken, we may either assent to them, if there is truth in what they say, or if not, we will maintain our position. Please to tell me then, Cebes, he said, what was the difficulty which troubled you?

Socrates looked intently at us, as was his way, and said with a smile: "Simmias makes a good point; why doesn't someone who is better at this than I am respond to him? His argument against me is strong. But maybe, before we answer him, we should also hear what Cebes has to say so we can take some time to think. Once they’ve both spoken, we can either agree with them if what they say is true, or if not, we will stick to our position. So please tell me, Cebes," he said, "what was the issue that bothered you?"

Cebes said: I will tell you. My feeling is that the argument is where it was, and open to the same objections which were urged before; for I am ready to admit that the existence of the soul before entering into the bodily form has been very ingeniously, and, if I may say so, quite sufficiently proven; but the existence of the soul after death is still, in my judgment, unproven. Now my objection is not the same as that of Simmias; for I am not disposed to deny that the soul is stronger and more lasting than the body, being of opinion that in all such respects the soul very far excels the body. Well, then, says the argument to me, why do you remain unconvinced?—When you see that the weaker continues in existence after the man is dead, will you not admit that the more lasting must also survive during the same period of time? Now I will ask you to consider whether the objection, which, like Simmias, I will express in a figure, is of any weight. The analogy which I will adduce is that of an old weaver, who dies, and after his death somebody says:—He is not dead, he must be alive;—see, there is the coat which he himself wove and wore, and which remains whole and undecayed. And then he proceeds to ask of some one who is incredulous, whether a man lasts longer, or the coat which is in use and wear; and when he is answered that a man lasts far longer, thinks that he has thus certainly demonstrated the survival of the man, who is the more lasting, because the less lasting remains. But that, Simmias, as I would beg you to remark, is a mistake; any one can see that he who talks thus is talking nonsense. For the truth is, that the weaver aforesaid, having woven and worn many such coats, outlived several of them, and was outlived by the last; but a man is not therefore proved to be slighter and weaker than a coat. Now the relation of the body to the soul may be expressed in a similar figure; and any one may very fairly say in like manner that the soul is lasting, and the body weak and shortlived in comparison. He may argue in like manner that every soul wears out many bodies, especially if a man live many years. While he is alive the body deliquesces and decays, and the soul always weaves another garment and repairs the waste. But of course, whenever the soul perishes, she must have on her last garment, and this will survive her; and then at length, when the soul is dead, the body will show its native weakness, and quickly decompose and pass away. I would therefore rather not rely on the argument from superior strength to prove the continued existence of the soul after death. For granting even more than you affirm to be possible, and acknowledging not only that the soul existed before birth, but also that the souls of some exist, and will continue to exist after death, and will be born and die again and again, and that there is a natural strength in the soul which will hold out and be born many times—nevertheless, we may be still inclined to think that she will weary in the labours of successive births, and may at last succumb in one of her deaths and utterly perish; and this death and dissolution of the body which brings destruction to the soul may be unknown to any of us, for no one of us can have had any experience of it: and if so, then I maintain that he who is confident about death has but a foolish confidence, unless he is able to prove that the soul is altogether immortal and imperishable. But if he cannot prove the soul's immortality, he who is about to die will always have reason to fear that when the body is disunited, the soul also may utterly perish.

Cebes said: I’ll explain. I feel that the argument stands where it did and is open to the same objections as before. I’m willing to acknowledge that the existence of the soul before entering the body has been cleverly and, if I may say so, sufficiently proven; however, I believe that the existence of the soul after death is still unproven. My objection isn’t the same as Simmias's; I don’t doubt that the soul is stronger and more enduring than the body, and I think the soul far surpasses the body in those respects. So, the argument asks me, why are you not convinced?—When you see that the weaker continues to exist after a person is dead, won’t you accept that the more lasting must also survive for the same period? Now, I’d like you to consider whether my objection, which I’ll express in a metaphor like Simmias did, has any weight. The analogy I’m going to use is that of an old weaver who dies, and after his death, someone says:—He’s not dead; he must be alive—look, there’s the coat he wove and wore, which remains intact and undamaged. Then he asks someone who doesn’t believe it, whether a man lasts longer or the coat that’s in use. When he hears that a man lasts much longer, he thinks he has proven the man's survival, who is the more lasting, because the less lasting remains. But, Simmias, I’d like you to notice that this is a mistake; anyone can see that this kind of reasoning is nonsense. The truth is that the weaver, having made and worn many such coats, outlived several of them and was outlived by the last; but that doesn’t prove that a man is weaker than a coat. Now, the relationship between the body and the soul can be expressed in a similar way; anyone might reasonably say that the soul is enduring while the body is fragile and short-lived in comparison. One could argue that every soul wears out many bodies, especially if a person lives many years. While alive, the body deteriorates and decays, and the soul always creates another garment and fixes the damage. But, of course, when the soul dies, she must be wearing her last garment, and this will survive her; and then, when the soul is finally dead, the body's inherent weakness will show, and it will quickly decompose and disappear. Therefore, I think it’s better not to rely on the argument of greater strength to prove that the soul continues to exist after death. Even if we grant more than you claim is possible, and accept not only that the soul existed before birth but also that some souls exist and will continue to exist after death, being reborn and dying repeatedly, and that there’s a natural strength in the soul that will withstand and be reborn many times—still, we might think that it will tire from the struggles of successive births and may eventually fail in one of its deaths and completely perish; and this death and dissolution of the body that might destroy the soul could be something none of us knows about, as none of us has experienced it. If that's the case, then I argue that anyone who feels confident about death has only a foolish confidence unless they can prove that the soul is entirely immortal and indestructible. But if they can’t prove the soul's immortality, anyone about to die will always have a reason to fear that when the body is separated, the soul may also completely perish.

All of us, as we afterwards remarked to one another, had an unpleasant feeling at hearing what they said. When we had been so firmly convinced before, now to have our faith shaken seemed to introduce a confusion and uncertainty, not only into the previous argument, but into any future one; either we were incapable of forming a judgment, or there were no grounds of belief.

All of us, as we later talked about with each other, felt uncomfortable hearing what they said. When we had been so sure before, having our faith shaken now created confusion and uncertainty, not just about the previous argument but about any future ones; either we couldn't make a judgment or there were no reasons to believe.

ECHECRATES: There I feel with you—by heaven I do, Phaedo, and when you were speaking, I was beginning to ask myself the same question: What argument can I ever trust again? For what could be more convincing than the argument of Socrates, which has now fallen into discredit? That the soul is a harmony is a doctrine which has always had a wonderful attraction for me, and, when mentioned, came back to me at once, as my own original conviction. And now I must begin again and find another argument which will assure me that when the man is dead the soul survives. Tell me, I implore you, how did Socrates proceed? Did he appear to share the unpleasant feeling which you mention? or did he calmly meet the attack? And did he answer forcibly or feebly? Narrate what passed as exactly as you can.

ECHECRATES: I totally feel you—honestly, I do, Phaedo. When you were talking, I started to wonder the same thing: What argument can I really trust again? What could be more convincing than Socrates' argument, which is now discredited? The idea that the soul is a harmony has always fascinated me, and whenever it comes up, it feels like my own original belief comes rushing back. Now I have to start over and find another reason to believe that when a person dies, the soul continues to exist. Please, tell me—how did Socrates handle it? Did he seem to share the uncomfortable feeling you mentioned, or did he face it calmly? And did he respond strongly or weakly? Please recount everything that happened as accurately as you can.

PHAEDO: Often, Echecrates, I have wondered at Socrates, but never more than on that occasion. That he should be able to answer was nothing, but what astonished me was, first, the gentle and pleasant and approving manner in which he received the words of the young men, and then his quick sense of the wound which had been inflicted by the argument, and the readiness with which he healed it. He might be compared to a general rallying his defeated and broken army, urging them to accompany him and return to the field of argument.

PHAEDO: Often, Echecrates, I've thought about Socrates, but never more than during that moment. That he could respond was one thing, but what amazed me was, first, the kind, pleasant, and supportive way he accepted the words of the young men, and then his sharp awareness of the hurt caused by the argument, along with how quickly he was able to mend it. He could be likened to a general rallying his defeated and disheartened army, encouraging them to stand with him and return to the battlefield of debate.

ECHECRATES: What followed?

ECHECRATES: What happened next?

PHAEDO: You shall hear, for I was close to him on his right hand, seated on a sort of stool, and he on a couch which was a good deal higher. He stroked my head, and pressed the hair upon my neck—he had a way of playing with my hair; and then he said: To-morrow, Phaedo, I suppose that these fair locks of yours will be severed.

PHAEDO: You will listen, because I was sitting right next to him on a stool, while he was on a couch that was much higher. He gently stroked my head and played with the hair on my neck—he had a habit of doing that. Then he said: Tomorrow, Phaedo, I guess these beautiful locks of yours will be cut off.

Yes, Socrates, I suppose that they will, I replied.

Yes, Socrates, I guess they will, I said.

Not so, if you will take my advice.

Not at all, if you take my advice.

What shall I do with them? I said.

What should I do with them? I asked.

To-day, he replied, and not to-morrow, if this argument dies and we cannot bring it to life again, you and I will both shave our locks; and if I were you, and the argument got away from me, and I could not hold my ground against Simmias and Cebes, I would myself take an oath, like the Argives, not to wear hair any more until I had renewed the conflict and defeated them.

Today, he replied, and not tomorrow. If this argument dies and we can't revive it, you and I will both shave our heads. If I were in your position and the argument slipped away from me, and I couldn't stand my ground against Simmias and Cebes, I would swear an oath, like the Argives, not to grow my hair back until I had reignited the debate and won against them.

Yes, I said, but Heracles himself is said not to be a match for two.

Yes, I said, but they say Heracles himself can't handle two at once.

Summon me then, he said, and I will be your Iolaus until the sun goes down.

"Call me then," he said, "and I’ll be your Iolaus until sunset."

I summon you rather, I rejoined, not as Heracles summoning Iolaus, but as Iolaus might summon Heracles.

I call on you instead, I replied, not like Heracles calling Iolaus, but like Iolaus might call on Heracles.

That will do as well, he said. But first let us take care that we avoid a danger.

That works too, he said. But first, let's make sure we steer clear of a danger.

Of what nature? I said.

What kind? I asked.

Lest we become misologists, he replied, no worse thing can happen to a man than this. For as there are misanthropists or haters of men, there are also misologists or haters of ideas, and both spring from the same cause, which is ignorance of the world. Misanthropy arises out of the too great confidence of inexperience;—you trust a man and think him altogether true and sound and faithful, and then in a little while he turns out to be false and knavish; and then another and another, and when this has happened several times to a man, especially when it happens among those whom he deems to be his own most trusted and familiar friends, and he has often quarreled with them, he at last hates all men, and believes that no one has any good in him at all. You must have observed this trait of character?

Unless we become haters of knowledge, he replied, nothing worse can happen to a person than this. Just as there are misanthropes or people who hate others, there are also misologists or people who hate ideas, and both come from the same root cause: ignorance of the world. Misanthropy arises from the overconfidence of inexperience; you trust someone and think they are completely honest and reliable, and then, before long, they turn out to be deceitful and untrustworthy; then it happens again and again, and when this occurs several times to a person—especially when it happens among those they consider their closest and most trusted friends—and after they have often quarreled with them, they eventually come to despise all people and believe that no one has any goodness in them at all. You must have noticed this trait of character?

I have.

I’ve.

And is not the feeling discreditable? Is it not obvious that such an one having to deal with other men, was clearly without any experience of human nature; for experience would have taught him the true state of the case, that few are the good and few the evil, and that the great majority are in the interval between them.

And isn't that feeling questionable? Isn't it clear that someone like that, dealing with others, clearly lacks any understanding of human nature? Experience would have shown him the reality: that there are few truly good people and few truly evil ones, and that most people are somewhere in between.

What do you mean? I said.

What do you mean? I asked.

I mean, he replied, as you might say of the very large and very small, that nothing is more uncommon than a very large or very small man; and this applies generally to all extremes, whether of great and small, or swift and slow, or fair and foul, or black and white: and whether the instances you select be men or dogs or anything else, few are the extremes, but many are in the mean between them. Did you never observe this?

I mean, he replied, as you might say about very large and very small things, that nothing is more uncommon than a very large or very small person; and this generally applies to all extremes, whether it's about being great or small, fast or slow, good or bad, or black and white: and whether the examples you choose are people, dogs, or anything else, there are few extremes, but many are in the middle. Have you never noticed this?

Yes, I said, I have.

Yep, I said I have.

And do you not imagine, he said, that if there were a competition in evil, the worst would be found to be very few?

And don't you think, he said, that if there were a contest for evil, the truly bad ones would be quite rare?

Yes, that is very likely, I said.

Yes, that's very likely, I said.

Yes, that is very likely, he replied; although in this respect arguments are unlike men—there I was led on by you to say more than I had intended; but the point of comparison was, that when a simple man who has no skill in dialectics believes an argument to be true which he afterwards imagines to be false, whether really false or not, and then another and another, he has no longer any faith left, and great disputers, as you know, come to think at last that they have grown to be the wisest of mankind; for they alone perceive the utter unsoundness and instability of all arguments, or indeed, of all things, which, like the currents in the Euripus, are going up and down in never-ceasing ebb and flow.

"Yes, that’s very likely," he replied. "Although in this respect, arguments are different from people—there you had me going to say more than I intended. The comparison is that when a simple person who isn't skilled in debate believes an argument to be true, which they later think is false, whether it really is or not, and then encounter another falsehood, they begin to lose all faith. And great debaters, as you know, eventually come to see themselves as the wisest of all, because they alone recognize the complete unsteadiness and unreliability of all arguments, or indeed, of everything, which, like the tides in the Euripus, are constantly rising and falling without end."

That is quite true, I said.

That's so true, I said.

Yes, Phaedo, he replied, and how melancholy, if there be such a thing as truth or certainty or possibility of knowledge—that a man should have lighted upon some argument or other which at first seemed true and then turned out to be false, and instead of blaming himself and his own want of wit, because he is annoyed, should at last be too glad to transfer the blame from himself to arguments in general: and for ever afterwards should hate and revile them, and lose truth and the knowledge of realities.

Yes, Phaedo, he replied, and how sad it is, if there is such a thing as truth or certainty or the possibility of knowledge—that a person might come across some argument that initially seemed true but later turned out to be false, and instead of taking responsibility for his own lack of understanding, because he is frustrated, he would be quick to shift the blame to arguments overall: and from then on, he would despise and criticize them, losing sight of truth and the understanding of reality.

Yes, indeed, I said; that is very melancholy.

Yes, I said; that's really sad.

Let us then, in the first place, he said, be careful of allowing or of admitting into our souls the notion that there is no health or soundness in any arguments at all. Rather say that we have not yet attained to soundness in ourselves, and that we must struggle manfully and do our best to gain health of mind—you and all other men having regard to the whole of your future life, and I myself in the prospect of death. For at this moment I am sensible that I have not the temper of a philosopher; like the vulgar, I am only a partisan. Now the partisan, when he is engaged in a dispute, cares nothing about the rights of the question, but is anxious only to convince his hearers of his own assertions. And the difference between him and me at the present moment is merely this—that whereas he seeks to convince his hearers that what he says is true, I am rather seeking to convince myself; to convince my hearers is a secondary matter with me. And do but see how much I gain by the argument. For if what I say is true, then I do well to be persuaded of the truth, but if there be nothing after death, still, during the short time that remains, I shall not distress my friends with lamentations, and my ignorance will not last, but will die with me, and therefore no harm will be done. This is the state of mind, Simmias and Cebes, in which I approach the argument. And I would ask you to be thinking of the truth and not of Socrates: agree with me, if I seem to you to be speaking the truth; or if not, withstand me might and main, that I may not deceive you as well as myself in my enthusiasm, and like the bee, leave my sting in you before I die.

Let’s be careful, he said, not to let ourselves think that there’s no validity in any arguments. Instead, we should acknowledge that we haven’t reached a solid understanding ourselves, and we need to work hard to achieve a clear mind—both you and everyone else looking at your whole future, while I consider my own approaching death. Right now, I realize that I’m not in the mindset of a philosopher; like most people, I’m just taking a side. A person who takes a side in a disagreement doesn’t care about the actual truth; they only want to persuade others of their own claims. The difference between me and them at this moment is simple: they want to convince others that what they’re saying is true, while I am mostly trying to convince myself. Convincing my listeners is a secondary concern for me. And just look at what I gain by arguing this point. If what I'm saying is true, it’s worthwhile for me to believe it. But if there’s nothing after death, then I can spend the little time I have left without burdening my friends with grief, and my ignorance will die with me, so it won’t cause any harm. This is the mindset, Simmias and Cebes, that I have as I present my argument. I ask you to focus on the truth, not on Socrates: agree with me if you think I’m speaking the truth, or if not, challenge me fiercely, so I don’t end up deceiving both you and myself in my enthusiasm, leaving my sting with you before I die.

And now let us proceed, he said. And first of all let me be sure that I have in my mind what you were saying. Simmias, if I remember rightly, has fears and misgivings whether the soul, although a fairer and diviner thing than the body, being as she is in the form of harmony, may not perish first. On the other hand, Cebes appeared to grant that the soul was more lasting than the body, but he said that no one could know whether the soul, after having worn out many bodies, might not perish herself and leave her last body behind her; and that this is death, which is the destruction not of the body but of the soul, for in the body the work of destruction is ever going on. Are not these, Simmias and Cebes, the points which we have to consider?

And now let's move on, he said. First, let me make sure I understand what you were saying. Simmias, if I remember correctly, has doubts and concerns about whether the soul, although it's a more beautiful and divine thing than the body, might not be destroyed first since it takes the form of harmony. On the other hand, Cebes seemed to agree that the soul lasts longer than the body, but he argued that no one can really know if the soul, after having lived in many bodies, might eventually perish itself and leave its last body behind; and this is what death is, which is the destruction of the soul, not the body, because in the body, destruction is constantly happening. Aren't these the points, Simmias and Cebes, that we need to think about?

They both agreed to this statement of them.

They both agreed to this statement about themselves.

He proceeded: And did you deny the force of the whole preceding argument, or of a part only?

He continued: Did you reject the strength of the entire previous argument, or just part of it?

Of a part only, they replied.

Of just a part, they replied.

And what did you think, he said, of that part of the argument in which we said that knowledge was recollection, and hence inferred that the soul must have previously existed somewhere else before she was enclosed in the body?

And what did you think, he said, about that part of the argument where we said that knowledge is recollection, and from that, we concluded that the soul must have existed somewhere else before it was trapped in the body?

Cebes said that he had been wonderfully impressed by that part of the argument, and that his conviction remained absolutely unshaken. Simmias agreed, and added that he himself could hardly imagine the possibility of his ever thinking differently.

Cebes said he was really impressed by that part of the argument and that his belief was totally unshaken. Simmias agreed and added that he could hardly imagine ever thinking differently.

But, rejoined Socrates, you will have to think differently, my Theban friend, if you still maintain that harmony is a compound, and that the soul is a harmony which is made out of strings set in the frame of the body; for you will surely never allow yourself to say that a harmony is prior to the elements which compose it.

But, Socrates replied, you need to reconsider, my Theban friend, if you still believe that harmony is a mixture and that the soul is a harmony created from strings within the body; because you would certainly never claim that harmony comes before the elements that make it up.

Never, Socrates.

Never, Socrates.

But do you not see that this is what you imply when you say that the soul existed before she took the form and body of man, and was made up of elements which as yet had no existence? For harmony is not like the soul, as you suppose; but first the lyre, and the strings, and the sounds exist in a state of discord, and then harmony is made last of all, and perishes first. And how can such a notion of the soul as this agree with the other?

But don’t you see that this is what you’re suggesting when you say the soul existed before it took on the form and body of a person, and was made up of elements that didn’t exist yet? Harmony isn’t like the soul, as you think; first, the lyre, the strings, and the sounds exist in a state of disharmony, and only after that is harmony created last, and it’s the first to fade away. How can such an idea of the soul fit with the other one?

Not at all, replied Simmias.

Not at all, Simmias replied.

And yet, he said, there surely ought to be harmony in a discourse of which harmony is the theme.

And yet, he said, there should definitely be harmony in a discussion where harmony is the topic.

There ought, replied Simmias.

There should, replied Simmias.

But there is no harmony, he said, in the two propositions that knowledge is recollection, and that the soul is a harmony. Which of them will you retain?

But there's no harmony, he said, in the two ideas that knowledge is recollection and that the soul is a harmony. Which one will you keep?

I think, he replied, that I have a much stronger faith, Socrates, in the first of the two, which has been fully demonstrated to me, than in the latter, which has not been demonstrated at all, but rests only on probable and plausible grounds; and is therefore believed by the many. I know too well that these arguments from probabilities are impostors, and unless great caution is observed in the use of them, they are apt to be deceptive—in geometry, and in other things too. But the doctrine of knowledge and recollection has been proven to me on trustworthy grounds; and the proof was that the soul must have existed before she came into the body, because to her belongs the essence of which the very name implies existence. Having, as I am convinced, rightly accepted this conclusion, and on sufficient grounds, I must, as I suppose, cease to argue or allow others to argue that the soul is a harmony.

"I believe," he replied, "that I have a much stronger faith, Socrates, in the first option, which has been fully proven to me, than in the second, which hasn’t been proven at all and is only based on likely and reasonable assumptions, and is therefore believed by many. I know too well that these arguments based on probability can be misleading, and if we’re not careful in using them, they can easily deceive us—in geometry and other areas as well. But the idea of knowledge and recollection has been proven to me on solid grounds; and the proof is that the soul must have existed before entering the body because she possesses the essence of existence, as the name itself suggests. Having accepted this conclusion, which I believe is correct and well-founded, I think I must stop arguing or let others argue that the soul is just a harmony."

Let me put the matter, Simmias, he said, in another point of view: Do you imagine that a harmony or any other composition can be in a state other than that of the elements, out of which it is compounded?

Let me explain this differently, Simmias, he said. Do you really think that a harmony or any other composition can exist in a state that’s different from the elements that make it up?

Certainly not.

Definitely not.

Or do or suffer anything other than they do or suffer?

Or do they do or suffer anything different from what they do or suffer?

He agreed.

He said yes.

Then a harmony does not, properly speaking, lead the parts or elements which make up the harmony, but only follows them.

Then a harmony doesn't, strictly speaking, lead the parts or elements that create the harmony, but simply follows them.

He assented.

He agreed.

For harmony cannot possibly have any motion, or sound, or other quality which is opposed to its parts.

For harmony can't really have any motion, sound, or any other quality that goes against its parts.

That would be impossible, he replied.

That would be impossible, he said.

And does not the nature of every harmony depend upon the manner in which the elements are harmonized?

And doesn't the nature of every harmony depend on how the elements are brought together?

I do not understand you, he said.

I don’t understand you, he said.

I mean to say that a harmony admits of degrees, and is more of a harmony, and more completely a harmony, when more truly and fully harmonized, to any extent which is possible; and less of a harmony, and less completely a harmony, when less truly and fully harmonized.

I mean to say that harmony comes in degrees and is more harmonious and fully realized when it's as true and complete as possible; and it's less harmonious and less complete when it's not as true and fully harmonized.

True.

True.

But does the soul admit of degrees? or is one soul in the very least degree more or less, or more or less completely, a soul than another?

But does the soul have different levels? Or is one soul, in any small way, more or less a soul than another?

Not in the least.

Not at all.

Yet surely of two souls, one is said to have intelligence and virtue, and to be good, and the other to have folly and vice, and to be an evil soul: and this is said truly?

Yet surely when comparing two souls, one is said to possess intelligence and virtue, and to be good, while the other is said to have foolishness and vice, and to be an evil soul. And isn’t this true?

Yes, truly.

Yeah, for real.

But what will those who maintain the soul to be a harmony say of this presence of virtue and vice in the soul?—will they say that here is another harmony, and another discord, and that the virtuous soul is harmonized, and herself being a harmony has another harmony within her, and that the vicious soul is inharmonical and has no harmony within her?

But what will those who believe the soul is a harmony say about the presence of virtue and vice in the soul?—will they claim that there is another harmony and another discord here, and that the virtuous soul is in harmony, being a harmony itself that has another harmony within it, while the vicious soul is disharmonious and lacks any harmony within it?

I cannot tell, replied Simmias; but I suppose that something of the sort would be asserted by those who say that the soul is a harmony.

"I can't say," replied Simmias, "but I guess that those who claim the soul is a harmony would argue something like that."

And we have already admitted that no soul is more a soul than another; which is equivalent to admitting that harmony is not more or less harmony, or more or less completely a harmony?

And we’ve already agreed that no soul is more of a soul than another; which means we’re admitting that harmony is not more or less harmony, or more or less completely a harmony?

Quite true.

Absolutely.

And that which is not more or less a harmony is not more or less harmonized?

And what isn't more or less harmonious isn't more or less in harmony?

True.

True.

And that which is not more or less harmonized cannot have more or less of harmony, but only an equal harmony?

And what isn't more or less harmonized can't have varying levels of harmony, but only a consistent harmony?

Yes, an equal harmony.

Yes, a balanced harmony.

Then one soul not being more or less absolutely a soul than another, is not more or less harmonized?

Then one soul isn't any more or less of a soul than another, so isn't it equally harmonized?

Exactly.

Exactly.

And therefore has neither more nor less of discord, nor yet of harmony?

And so, does it have any more or less discord or harmony?

She has not.

She hasn't.

And having neither more nor less of harmony or of discord, one soul has no more vice or virtue than another, if vice be discord and virtue harmony?

And since one soul has neither more nor less harmony or discord than another, does one soul have more vices or virtues than the other, if vice is discord and virtue is harmony?

Not at all more.

Not at all.

Or speaking more correctly, Simmias, the soul, if she is a harmony, will never have any vice; because a harmony, being absolutely a harmony, has no part in the inharmonical.

Or to put it more accurately, Simmias, if the soul is a harmony, it will never have any flaws; because a harmony, being purely a harmony, has no connection to anything discordant.

No.

No.

And therefore a soul which is absolutely a soul has no vice?

And so, a soul that is truly a soul has no flaws?

How can she have, if the previous argument holds?

How can she have, if the previous argument is valid?

Then, if all souls are equally by their nature souls, all souls of all living creatures will be equally good?

Then, if all souls are inherently souls, do all souls of all living beings have equal value?

I agree with you, Socrates, he said.

I agree with you, Socrates, he said.

And can all this be true, think you? he said; for these are the consequences which seem to follow from the assumption that the soul is a harmony?

And can all this really be true, do you think? he said; because these are the outcomes that seem to come from the idea that the soul is a harmony?

It cannot be true.

It can't be true.

Once more, he said, what ruler is there of the elements of human nature other than the soul, and especially the wise soul? Do you know of any?

Once again, he asked, what governs the elements of human nature other than the soul, particularly the wise soul? Do you know of any?

Indeed, I do not.

I really don’t.

And is the soul in agreement with the affections of the body? or is she at variance with them? For example, when the body is hot and thirsty, does not the soul incline us against drinking? and when the body is hungry, against eating? And this is only one instance out of ten thousand of the opposition of the soul to the things of the body.

And is the soul in sync with the body's feelings? Or does it clash with them? For instance, when the body is hot and thirsty, doesn't the soul discourage us from drinking? And when the body is hungry, doesn't it oppose eating? This is just one example out of countless instances of the soul resisting the body's desires.

Very true.

So true.

But we have already acknowledged that the soul, being a harmony, can never utter a note at variance with the tensions and relaxations and vibrations and other affections of the strings out of which she is composed; she can only follow, she cannot lead them?

But we've already recognized that the soul, being a harmony, can never express a note that conflicts with the tensions, relaxations, vibrations, and other qualities of the strings that make it up; it can only follow, it cannot lead them?

It must be so, he replied.

It has to be, he said.

And yet do we not now discover the soul to be doing the exact opposite—leading the elements of which she is believed to be composed; almost always opposing and coercing them in all sorts of ways throughout life, sometimes more violently with the pains of medicine and gymnastic; then again more gently; now threatening, now admonishing the desires, passions, fears, as if talking to a thing which is not herself, as Homer in the Odyssee represents Odysseus doing in the words—

And yet don’t we see now that the soul is actually doing the exact opposite—guiding the elements that she’s thought to be made of; almost always resisting and pushing against them in various ways throughout life, sometimes more forcefully with the discomforts of medicine and exercise; other times more gently; sometimes threatening, sometimes advising the desires, passions, and fears, as if speaking to something that isn’t herself, just like Homer depicts Odysseus doing in the words—

'He beat his breast, and thus reproached his heart: Endure, my heart; far worse hast thou endured!'

He pounded his chest and said to his heart: Hang in there, my heart; you've been through much worse!

Do you think that Homer wrote this under the idea that the soul is a harmony capable of being led by the affections of the body, and not rather of a nature which should lead and master them—herself a far diviner thing than any harmony?

Do you think that Homer believed the soul is a harmony that can be influenced by the body's emotions, rather than being something that should control and dominate them—something far more divine than any harmony?

Yes, Socrates, I quite think so.

Yes, Socrates, I really think so.

Then, my friend, we can never be right in saying that the soul is a harmony, for we should contradict the divine Homer, and contradict ourselves.

Then, my friend, we can never be correct in saying that the soul is a harmony, because we would contradict the divine Homer and contradict ourselves.

True, he said.

True, he said.

Thus much, said Socrates, of Harmonia, your Theban goddess, who has graciously yielded to us; but what shall I say, Cebes, to her husband Cadmus, and how shall I make peace with him?

Thus much, said Socrates, about Harmonia, your Theban goddess, who has graciously given us her support; but what should I say, Cebes, to her husband Cadmus, and how can I make peace with him?

I think that you will discover a way of propitiating him, said Cebes; I am sure that you have put the argument with Harmonia in a manner that I could never have expected. For when Simmias was mentioning his difficulty, I quite imagined that no answer could be given to him, and therefore I was surprised at finding that his argument could not sustain the first onset of yours, and not impossibly the other, whom you call Cadmus, may share a similar fate.

I think you’ll find a way to appease him, said Cebes; I’m sure you presented your argument with Harmonia in a way I never anticipated. When Simmias brought up his issue, I honestly thought there was no response possible, so I was taken aback to see that his argument couldn’t hold up against your initial points. It’s also possible that the other one you refer to as Cadmus might face a similar outcome.

Nay, my good friend, said Socrates, let us not boast, lest some evil eye should put to flight the word which I am about to speak. That, however, may be left in the hands of those above, while I draw near in Homeric fashion, and try the mettle of your words. Here lies the point:—You want to have it proven to you that the soul is imperishable and immortal, and the philosopher who is confident in death appears to you to have but a vain and foolish confidence, if he believes that he will fare better in the world below than one who has led another sort of life, unless he can prove this; and you say that the demonstration of the strength and divinity of the soul, and of her existence prior to our becoming men, does not necessarily imply her immortality. Admitting the soul to be longlived, and to have known and done much in a former state, still she is not on that account immortal; and her entrance into the human form may be a sort of disease which is the beginning of dissolution, and may at last, after the toils of life are over, end in that which is called death. And whether the soul enters into the body once only or many times, does not, as you say, make any difference in the fears of individuals. For any man, who is not devoid of sense, must fear, if he has no knowledge and can give no account of the soul's immortality. This, or something like this, I suspect to be your notion, Cebes; and I designedly recur to it in order that nothing may escape us, and that you may, if you wish, add or subtract anything.

"Come on, my good friend," Socrates said, "let’s not get too cocky, or an evil influence might ruin what I’m about to say. That’s something we can leave to the higher powers while I approach this like Homer and test your arguments. Here’s the main point: you want proof that the soul is everlasting and immortal. To you, a philosopher who faces death with confidence seems like he’s just foolishly optimistic if he thinks he’ll do better in the afterlife than someone who lived differently, unless he can back it up with evidence. You argue that demonstrating the strength and divinity of the soul, and that it existed before we became human, doesn’t necessarily mean it’s immortal. Even if we admit the soul lives a long time and has experienced a lot in a previous state, that doesn’t make it immortal. The soul’s entering a human body might be like a sickness that starts the process of decay, which could ultimately lead to what we call death once life’s challenges are done. Whether the soul inhabits a body just once or many times, as you pointed out, doesn’t change how people fear it. Anyone with common sense will be scared if they lack knowledge or can’t explain the soul’s immortality. I suspect this is your view, Cebes, and I’m intentionally bringing it up so we don’t miss anything, and you can add or change what you like."

But, said Cebes, as far as I see at present, I have nothing to add or subtract: I mean what you say that I mean.

But, Cebes said, as far as I can tell right now, I have nothing to add or take away: I understand what you mean when you say that I understand.

Socrates paused awhile, and seemed to be absorbed in reflection. At length he said: You are raising a tremendous question, Cebes, involving the whole nature of generation and corruption, about which, if you like, I will give you my own experience; and if anything which I say is likely to avail towards the solution of your difficulty you may make use of it.

Socrates took a moment to think deeply. Finally, he said: You’re asking a huge question, Cebes, one that touches on the whole nature of creation and destruction. If you want, I can share my own insights on this. If anything I say helps you solve your problem, feel free to use it.

I should very much like, said Cebes, to hear what you have to say.

I’d really like to hear what you have to say, Cebes said.

Then I will tell you, said Socrates. When I was young, Cebes, I had a prodigious desire to know that department of philosophy which is called the investigation of nature; to know the causes of things, and why a thing is and is created or destroyed appeared to me to be a lofty profession; and I was always agitating myself with the consideration of questions such as these:—Is the growth of animals the result of some decay which the hot and cold principle contracts, as some have said? Is the blood the element with which we think, or the air, or the fire? or perhaps nothing of the kind—but the brain may be the originating power of the perceptions of hearing and sight and smell, and memory and opinion may come from them, and science may be based on memory and opinion when they have attained fixity. And then I went on to examine the corruption of them, and then to the things of heaven and earth, and at last I concluded myself to be utterly and absolutely incapable of these enquiries, as I will satisfactorily prove to you. For I was fascinated by them to such a degree that my eyes grew blind to things which I had seemed to myself, and also to others, to know quite well; I forgot what I had before thought self-evident truths; e.g. such a fact as that the growth of man is the result of eating and drinking; for when by the digestion of food flesh is added to flesh and bone to bone, and whenever there is an aggregation of congenial elements, the lesser bulk becomes larger and the small man great. Was not that a reasonable notion?

Then I will tell you, said Socrates. When I was young, Cebes, I had a huge desire to understand that part of philosophy called the investigation of nature; to know the causes of things, and why something exists, is created, or destroyed seemed to me a noble pursuit; and I was always wrestling with questions like these: Is the growth of animals the result of some decay caused by hot and cold elements, as some people have said? Is blood the element we think with, or is it the air, or the fire? Or maybe none of those—perhaps the brain is the source of our perceptions of hearing, sight, and smell, and memory and opinion come from them, and science can be rooted in memory and opinion once they become established. Then I looked into their corruption, and then to the things of heaven and earth, and eventually I concluded that I was utterly and completely incapable of these inquiries, as I will prove to you. I was so captivated by these questions that I lost sight of things I thought I understood clearly, and I forgot what I previously considered self-evident truths; for example, the fact that human growth results from eating and drinking; because when food is digested, flesh is added to flesh and bone to bone, and whenever there's a collection of compatible elements, the smaller bulk grows larger and the small person becomes great. Wasn't that a reasonable idea?

Yes, said Cebes, I think so.

Yes, Cebes said, I think so.

Well; but let me tell you something more. There was a time when I thought that I understood the meaning of greater and less pretty well; and when I saw a great man standing by a little one, I fancied that one was taller than the other by a head; or one horse would appear to be greater than another horse: and still more clearly did I seem to perceive that ten is two more than eight, and that two cubits are more than one, because two is the double of one.

Well, let me tell you something else. There was a time when I thought I really understood the concepts of greater and lesser pretty well. When I saw a tall person standing next to a shorter one, I figured one was taller than the other by a head; or one horse seemed bigger than another horse. I also clearly understood that ten is two more than eight, and that two cubits is more than one because two is double one.

And what is now your notion of such matters? said Cebes.

And what is your opinion on these things now? Cebes asked.

I should be far enough from imagining, he replied, that I knew the cause of any of them, by heaven I should; for I cannot satisfy myself that, when one is added to one, the one to which the addition is made becomes two, or that the two units added together make two by reason of the addition. I cannot understand how, when separated from the other, each of them was one and not two, and now, when they are brought together, the mere juxtaposition or meeting of them should be the cause of their becoming two: neither can I understand how the division of one is the way to make two; for then a different cause would produce the same effect,—as in the former instance the addition and juxtaposition of one to one was the cause of two, in this the separation and subtraction of one from the other would be the cause. Nor am I any longer satisfied that I understand the reason why one or anything else is either generated or destroyed or is at all, but I have in my mind some confused notion of a new method, and can never admit the other.

"I should be far enough from overthinking this," he replied, "that I would know the reason behind any of them, honestly I would; because I can't convince myself that when you add one to one, the original one becomes two, or that two is the result of adding them together. I can't grasp how, when separated, each was just one and not two, and now, when brought together, just their proximity should cause them to become two: nor can I understand how splitting one is the way to make two; because then a different action would lead to the same result—as in the first case, where the addition and coming together of one and one caused two, while here, the separation and subtraction of one from another would be the cause. I'm also no longer convinced that I understand why one or anything else is created or destroyed or exists at all, but I have some jumbled idea of a new approach, and I can never accept the old one."

Then I heard some one reading, as he said, from a book of Anaxagoras, that mind was the disposer and cause of all, and I was delighted at this notion, which appeared quite admirable, and I said to myself: If mind is the disposer, mind will dispose all for the best, and put each particular in the best place; and I argued that if any one desired to find out the cause of the generation or destruction or existence of anything, he must find out what state of being or doing or suffering was best for that thing, and therefore a man had only to consider the best for himself and others, and then he would also know the worse, since the same science comprehended both. And I rejoiced to think that I had found in Anaxagoras a teacher of the causes of existence such as I desired, and I imagined that he would tell me first whether the earth is flat or round; and whichever was true, he would proceed to explain the cause and the necessity of this being so, and then he would teach me the nature of the best and show that this was best; and if he said that the earth was in the centre, he would further explain that this position was the best, and I should be satisfied with the explanation given, and not want any other sort of cause. And I thought that I would then go on and ask him about the sun and moon and stars, and that he would explain to me their comparative swiftness, and their returnings and various states, active and passive, and how all of them were for the best. For I could not imagine that when he spoke of mind as the disposer of them, he would give any other account of their being as they are, except that this was best; and I thought that when he had explained to me in detail the cause of each and the cause of all, he would go on to explain to me what was best for each and what was good for all. These hopes I would not have sold for a large sum of money, and I seized the books and read them as fast as I could in my eagerness to know the better and the worse.

Then I heard someone reading, as he said, from a book by Anaxagoras, that mind was the organizer and cause of everything, and I was thrilled by this idea, which seemed really admirable. I thought to myself: If mind organizes, then mind will arrange everything for the best and place each thing in its ideal spot. I concluded that if someone wanted to understand the reason for the creation, destruction, or existence of anything, they first needed to find what state of being, doing, or suffering was best for that thing. So, a person just needed to consider what was best for themselves and others, and then they would also understand what was worse, since the same knowledge covered both. I was excited to think that I had found in Anaxagoras a teacher of existence’s causes, just as I wanted, and I imagined he would first tell me whether the earth is flat or round; and regardless of what the truth was, he would explain the reason and necessity for it being that way. Then he would teach me about the nature of the best and show that it truly was the best; and if he said that the earth was at the center, he would further explain why that position was the best, and I would be satisfied with that explanation, not wanting any other kind of reason. I thought I would then ask him about the sun, moon, and stars, and he would explain their relative speeds, their movements, and their various states, both active and passive, and how all of them were for the best. I couldn’t imagine that when he spoke of mind as their organizer, he would give any other reasoning for their existence than that it was the best. I thought he would then continue to explain to me what was best for each thing and what was good for all. I wouldn’t have traded these hopes for a lot of money, and I grabbed the books and read them as quickly as I could, eager to learn what was better and what was worse.

What expectations I had formed, and how grievously was I disappointed! As I proceeded, I found my philosopher altogether forsaking mind or any other principle of order, but having recourse to air, and ether, and water, and other eccentricities. I might compare him to a person who began by maintaining generally that mind is the cause of the actions of Socrates, but who, when he endeavoured to explain the causes of my several actions in detail, went on to show that I sit here because my body is made up of bones and muscles; and the bones, as he would say, are hard and have joints which divide them, and the muscles are elastic, and they cover the bones, which have also a covering or environment of flesh and skin which contains them; and as the bones are lifted at their joints by the contraction or relaxation of the muscles, I am able to bend my limbs, and this is why I am sitting here in a curved posture—that is what he would say, and he would have a similar explanation of my talking to you, which he would attribute to sound, and air, and hearing, and he would assign ten thousand other causes of the same sort, forgetting to mention the true cause, which is, that the Athenians have thought fit to condemn me, and accordingly I have thought it better and more right to remain here and undergo my sentence; for I am inclined to think that these muscles and bones of mine would have gone off long ago to Megara or Boeotia—by the dog they would, if they had been moved only by their own idea of what was best, and if I had not chosen the better and nobler part, instead of playing truant and running away, of enduring any punishment which the state inflicts. There is surely a strange confusion of causes and conditions in all this. It may be said, indeed, that without bones and muscles and the other parts of the body I cannot execute my purposes. But to say that I do as I do because of them, and that this is the way in which mind acts, and not from the choice of the best, is a very careless and idle mode of speaking. I wonder that they cannot distinguish the cause from the condition, which the many, feeling about in the dark, are always mistaking and misnaming. And thus one man makes a vortex all round and steadies the earth by the heaven; another gives the air as a support to the earth, which is a sort of broad trough. Any power which in arranging them as they are arranges them for the best never enters into their minds; and instead of finding any superior strength in it, they rather expect to discover another Atlas of the world who is stronger and more everlasting and more containing than the good;—of the obligatory and containing power of the good they think nothing; and yet this is the principle which I would fain learn if any one would teach me. But as I have failed either to discover myself, or to learn of any one else, the nature of the best, I will exhibit to you, if you like, what I have found to be the second best mode of enquiring into the cause.

What expectations I had, and how disappointed I was! As I continued, I found my philosopher completely abandoning logic or any sense of order, instead relying on air, ether, water, and other odd ideas. I could compare him to someone who starts by arguing that the mind is what drives Socrates' actions, but when he tries to explain the reasons for my different actions in detail, he claims that I sit here because my body is made of bones and muscles. He would say the bones are hard and have joints that separate them, and the muscles are elastic and cover the bones, which also have layers of flesh and skin around them. As the bones move at their joints through the contraction or relaxation of the muscles, I can bend my limbs, and this is why I’m sitting here in a curved position—that’s what he would say. He would provide a similar explanation for my talking to you, attributing it to sound, air, and hearing, and he would list countless other causes like that, forgetting to mention the real reason: that the Athenians have decided to condemn me, and so I believe it's better and more right to stay here and face my sentence; I think my muscles and bones would have taken me off to Megara or Boeotia long ago—by my word they would, if they had acted on their own sense of what was best. Instead of running away, I've chosen the better and nobler path of enduring whatever punishment the state imposes. There’s surely a strange mix-up of causes and conditions in all this. It could be said that without bones and muscles and the other parts of the body, I can’t fulfill my intentions. But to claim that I act the way I do because of them, and that this reflects how the mind operates and not from choosing the best option, is a careless and lazy way of talking. I can't understand why they can't tell the cause from the condition, which so many people, fumbling in the dark, are always confusing and mislabeling. One person theorizes that a vortex surrounds and stabilizes the earth from the heavens; another attributes the earth's stability to air, as if it were a giant trough. They never consider that there’s a power that arranges things as they are in the best possible way; instead, they seem to expect to find another Atlas of the world—someone stronger, more lasting, and more supportive than goodness itself; they give no thought to the obligatory and sustaining power of goodness. Yet, this is the principle I’d love to understand if anyone could teach me. But since I’ve failed to discover it myself or learn it from anyone else, I’ll show you, if you’re interested, what I’ve found to be the second best way to investigate the cause.

I should very much like to hear, he replied.

I would really like to hear that, he replied.

Socrates proceeded:—I thought that as I had failed in the contemplation of true existence, I ought to be careful that I did not lose the eye of my soul; as people may injure their bodily eye by observing and gazing on the sun during an eclipse, unless they take the precaution of only looking at the image reflected in the water, or in some similar medium. So in my own case, I was afraid that my soul might be blinded altogether if I looked at things with my eyes or tried to apprehend them by the help of the senses. And I thought that I had better have recourse to the world of mind and seek there the truth of existence. I dare say that the simile is not perfect—for I am very far from admitting that he who contemplates existences through the medium of thought, sees them only 'through a glass darkly,' any more than he who considers them in action and operation. However, this was the method which I adopted: I first assumed some principle which I judged to be the strongest, and then I affirmed as true whatever seemed to agree with this, whether relating to the cause or to anything else; and that which disagreed I regarded as untrue. But I should like to explain my meaning more clearly, as I do not think that you as yet understand me.

Socrates continued:—I thought that since I had failed to grasp true existence, I needed to be careful not to lose the insight of my soul; just as people can damage their physical sight by staring at the sun during an eclipse unless they take the precaution of looking only at its reflection in water or something similar. Similarly, I was worried that my soul might become completely blinded if I looked at things through my eyes or tried to understand them using my senses. I believed it would be better to turn to the world of thought and seek the truth of existence there. I recognize that the analogy isn't perfect—I'm not saying that someone who contemplates existence through thought sees it only 'through a glass darkly,' just as someone who examines it in action doesn't either. Nevertheless, this was the approach I took: I first accepted a principle that I considered to be the strongest, and then I asserted as true whatever seemed to align with it, whether it pertained to the cause or anything else; anything that didn't fit I considered untrue. However, I would like to clarify my point more clearly because I don’t think you fully understand me yet.

No indeed, replied Cebes, not very well.

No, not really, Cebes said.

There is nothing new, he said, in what I am about to tell you; but only what I have been always and everywhere repeating in the previous discussion and on other occasions: I want to show you the nature of that cause which has occupied my thoughts. I shall have to go back to those familiar words which are in the mouth of every one, and first of all assume that there is an absolute beauty and goodness and greatness, and the like; grant me this, and I hope to be able to show you the nature of the cause, and to prove the immortality of the soul.

There’s nothing new in what I’m about to share with you, he said; it’s just what I’ve always been repeating in previous discussions and at other times: I want to explain the nature of the cause that’s been on my mind. I need to revisit those well-known concepts that everyone talks about, and first assume that there’s an absolute beauty, goodness, greatness, and similar ideals; if you accept this, I hope to show you the nature of the cause and prove the immortality of the soul.

Cebes said: You may proceed at once with the proof, for I grant you this.

Cebes said: You can go ahead with the proof right now, because I allow it.

Well, he said, then I should like to know whether you agree with me in the next step; for I cannot help thinking, if there be anything beautiful other than absolute beauty should there be such, that it can be beautiful only in as far as it partakes of absolute beauty—and I should say the same of everything. Do you agree in this notion of the cause?

Well, he said, I’d like to know if you agree with me on the next step; because I can’t help thinking that if there’s anything beautiful other than absolute beauty, it can only be beautiful to the extent that it shares qualities of absolute beauty—and I’d say the same applies to everything. Do you agree with this idea of the cause?

Yes, he said, I agree.

Yes, I agree, he said.

He proceeded: I know nothing and can understand nothing of any other of those wise causes which are alleged; and if a person says to me that the bloom of colour, or form, or any such thing is a source of beauty, I leave all that, which is only confusing to me, and simply and singly, and perhaps foolishly, hold and am assured in my own mind that nothing makes a thing beautiful but the presence and participation of beauty in whatever way or manner obtained; for as to the manner I am uncertain, but I stoutly contend that by beauty all beautiful things become beautiful. This appears to me to be the safest answer which I can give, either to myself or to another, and to this I cling, in the persuasion that this principle will never be overthrown, and that to myself or to any one who asks the question, I may safely reply, That by beauty beautiful things become beautiful. Do you not agree with me?

He continued: I know nothing and can’t understand anything about those wise causes that are mentioned; and if someone tells me that the brightness of color, shape, or anything like that is a source of beauty, I dismiss all that, which only confuses me, and simply and frankly, and maybe foolishly, believe in my own mind that nothing makes something beautiful except the presence and involvement of beauty in whatever way it happens; as for the way, I’m not sure, but I strongly argue that through beauty, all beautiful things become beautiful. This seems to me to be the safest answer I can give, either to myself or to someone else, and to this I hold on, convinced that this principle will never be overturned, and that to myself or to anyone who asks the question, I can safely respond, That through beauty beautiful things become beautiful. Don’t you agree with me?

I do.

I do.

And that by greatness only great things become great and greater greater, and by smallness the less become less?

And is it true that only great things become greater through greatness, and that small things become even less through smallness?

True.

True.

Then if a person were to remark that A is taller by a head than B, and B less by a head than A, you would refuse to admit his statement, and would stoutly contend that what you mean is only that the greater is greater by, and by reason of, greatness, and the less is less only by, and by reason of, smallness; and thus you would avoid the danger of saying that the greater is greater and the less less by the measure of the head, which is the same in both, and would also avoid the monstrous absurdity of supposing that the greater man is greater by reason of the head, which is small. You would be afraid to draw such an inference, would you not?

If someone were to say that A is taller than B by a head, and B is shorter than A by a head, you would reject that claim and argue that what you really mean is that being greater is defined by greatness, and being less is defined by smallness. This way, you would steer clear of the risk of saying that the greater is greater and the less is less based on the head measurement, which is the same for both, and you would also avoid the ridiculous idea that the taller person is only taller because of the small head. You wouldn’t want to make such a conclusion, would you?

Indeed, I should, said Cebes, laughing.

"Yeah, I definitely should," Cebes said with a laugh.

In like manner you would be afraid to say that ten exceeded eight by, and by reason of, two; but would say by, and by reason of, number; or you would say that two cubits exceed one cubit not by a half, but by magnitude?-for there is the same liability to error in all these cases.

In the same way, you would hesitate to say that ten is greater than eight by two; instead, you might say it’s greater by number. Or you might say that two cubits exceed one cubit not by half, but by size—because there’s the same chance of making a mistake in all these situations.

Very true, he said.

So true, he said.

Again, would you not be cautious of affirming that the addition of one to one, or the division of one, is the cause of two? And you would loudly asseverate that you know of no way in which anything comes into existence except by participation in its own proper essence, and consequently, as far as you know, the only cause of two is the participation in duality—this is the way to make two, and the participation in one is the way to make one. You would say: I will let alone puzzles of division and addition—wiser heads than mine may answer them; inexperienced as I am, and ready to start, as the proverb says, at my own shadow, I cannot afford to give up the sure ground of a principle. And if any one assails you there, you would not mind him, or answer him, until you had seen whether the consequences which follow agree with one another or not, and when you are further required to give an explanation of this principle, you would go on to assume a higher principle, and a higher, until you found a resting-place in the best of the higher; but you would not confuse the principle and the consequences in your reasoning, like the Eristics—at least if you wanted to discover real existence. Not that this confusion signifies to them, who never care or think about the matter at all, for they have the wit to be well pleased with themselves however great may be the turmoil of their ideas. But you, if you are a philosopher, will certainly do as I say.

Once again, would you be careful about claiming that adding one to one, or dividing one, is what causes two? You’d firmly state that you know of no way anything comes into existence other than by taking part in its own essence. Therefore, as far as you know, the only cause of two is the participation in duality—this is how you make two, while participation in one is how you make one. You might say: I’ll leave the puzzles of division and addition to smarter minds; I’m inexperienced and easily startled, as the saying goes, and I can’t afford to abandon the solid ground of a principle. If anyone attacks you on that, you wouldn't respond until you'd checked whether the conclusions align with one another. When asked to explain this principle further, you would reference a higher principle, and then an even higher one, until you find a solid foundation in the highest principle. But you wouldn't mix up the principle and the consequences in your reasoning, like the Eristics—at least not if you aim to uncover true existence. This confusion doesn’t matter to them, as they don’t care or think about it at all; they’re clever enough to be content with themselves no matter how chaotic their thoughts may be. But you, if you’re a philosopher, will definitely do as I’ve described.

What you say is most true, said Simmias and Cebes, both speaking at once.

"What you’re saying is absolutely true," said Simmias and Cebes, both speaking at the same time.

ECHECRATES: Yes, Phaedo; and I do not wonder at their assenting. Any one who has the least sense will acknowledge the wonderful clearness of Socrates' reasoning.

ECHECRATES: Yes, Phaedo; and I’m not surprised they agree. Anyone with even a bit of sense will recognize the astonishing clarity of Socrates' reasoning.

PHAEDO: Certainly, Echecrates; and such was the feeling of the whole company at the time.

PHAEDO: Absolutely, Echecrates; and everyone in the group felt that way back then.

ECHECRATES: Yes, and equally of ourselves, who were not of the company, and are now listening to your recital. But what followed?

ECHECRATES: Yes, and also about us, who weren't part of the group, and are now hearing your story. But what happened next?

PHAEDO: After all this had been admitted, and they had that ideas exist, and that other things participate in them and derive their names from them, Socrates, if I remember rightly, said:—

PHAEDO: After all this had been agreed upon, and they acknowledged that ideas exist, and that other things share in them and get their names from them, Socrates, if I remember correctly, said:—

This is your way of speaking; and yet when you say that Simmias is greater than Socrates and less than Phaedo, do you not predicate of Simmias both greatness and smallness?

This is how you express yourself; and yet when you say that Simmias is greater than Socrates and less than Phaedo, aren’t you saying that Simmias has both greatness and smallness?

Yes, I do.

Yep, I do.

But still you allow that Simmias does not really exceed Socrates, as the words may seem to imply, because he is Simmias, but by reason of the size which he has; just as Simmias does not exceed Socrates because he is Simmias, any more than because Socrates is Socrates, but because he has smallness when compared with the greatness of Simmias?

But you still agree that Simmias doesn't actually surpass Socrates, despite what the words might suggest, because he is Simmias, but because of his size; just like Simmias doesn’t surpass Socrates because he is Simmias, nor does Socrates surpass Simmias just because he is Socrates, but rather because he is smaller compared to the greatness of Simmias?

True.

True.

And if Phaedo exceeds him in size, this is not because Phaedo is Phaedo, but because Phaedo has greatness relatively to Simmias, who is comparatively smaller?

And if Phaedo is larger than him, it's not because Phaedo is Phaedo, but because Phaedo has greatness compared to Simmias, who is relatively smaller?

That is true.

That's true.

And therefore Simmias is said to be great, and is also said to be small, because he is in a mean between them, exceeding the smallness of the one by his greatness, and allowing the greatness of the other to exceed his smallness. He added, laughing, I am speaking like a book, but I believe that what I am saying is true.

And so Simmias is considered great, but also seen as small, because he exists in between the two, surpassing the smallness of one by being great, and letting the greatness of the other go beyond his smallness. He added with a laugh, "I sound like I'm reading from a book, but I really think what I'm saying is true."

Simmias assented.

Simmias agreed.

I speak as I do because I want you to agree with me in thinking, not only that absolute greatness will never be great and also small, but that greatness in us or in the concrete will never admit the small or admit of being exceeded: instead of this, one of two things will happen, either the greater will fly or retire before the opposite, which is the less, or at the approach of the less has already ceased to exist; but will not, if allowing or admitting of smallness, be changed by that; even as I, having received and admitted smallness when compared with Simmias, remain just as I was, and am the same small person. And as the idea of greatness cannot condescend ever to be or become small, in like manner the smallness in us cannot be or become great; nor can any other opposite which remains the same ever be or become its own opposite, but either passes away or perishes in the change.

I speak the way I do because I want you to agree with me that absolute greatness can't be both great and small at the same time. Greatness, whether in us or in reality, cannot accept smallness or be surpassed. One of two things will happen: either the greater will run away or retreat from the lesser, or when the lesser approaches, the greater will have already ceased to exist. If it were to accept smallness, it wouldn’t be altered by that; just like I, having accepted my own smallness compared to Simmias, remain exactly as I am—still the same small person. Just as the concept of greatness can never lower itself to become small, the smallness within us cannot become great. Similarly, any opposite that remains the same can never truly become its own opposite; it either fades away or is lost in the change.

That, replied Cebes, is quite my notion.

That’s exactly what I think, replied Cebes.

Hereupon one of the company, though I do not exactly remember which of them, said: In heaven's name, is not this the direct contrary of what was admitted before—that out of the greater came the less and out of the less the greater, and that opposites were simply generated from opposites; but now this principle seems to be utterly denied.

Here, one person in the group, although I don't precisely recall who it was, said: "For heaven's sake, isn't this completely against what was previously accepted—that the greater comes from the lesser and the lesser from the greater, and that opposites are simply created from opposites? But now this principle seems to be entirely rejected."

Socrates inclined his head to the speaker and listened. I like your courage, he said, in reminding us of this. But you do not observe that there is a difference in the two cases. For then we were speaking of opposites in the concrete, and now of the essential opposite which, as is affirmed, neither in us nor in nature can ever be at variance with itself: then, my friend, we were speaking of things in which opposites are inherent and which are called after them, but now about the opposites which are inherent in them and which give their name to them; and these essential opposites will never, as we maintain, admit of generation into or out of one another. At the same time, turning to Cebes, he said: Are you at all disconcerted, Cebes, at our friend's objection?

Socrates nodded to the speaker and listened. "I admire your bravery in bringing this up," he said. "But you haven't noticed that there's a difference between the two situations. Before, we were discussing concrete opposites, and now we're talking about the fundamental opposite that, as we say, can never contradict itself, whether in us or in nature. Back then, my friend, we were referring to things that naturally include opposites and are named after them; now we're discussing the opposites that are inherent in them and give them their name. These essential opposites, we believe, can never transform into each other. At the same time, turning to Cebes, he asked, 'Are you at all unsettled, Cebes, by our friend's objection?'"

No, I do not feel so, said Cebes; and yet I cannot deny that I am often disturbed by objections.

No, I don't feel that way, said Cebes; and yet I can't deny that I'm often troubled by objections.

Then we are agreed after all, said Socrates, that the opposite will never in any case be opposed to itself?

Then we all agree after all, said Socrates, that the opposite will never, in any case, contradict itself?

To that we are quite agreed, he replied.

We're in complete agreement on that, he replied.

Yet once more let me ask you to consider the question from another point of view, and see whether you agree with me:—There is a thing which you term heat, and another thing which you term cold?

Yet again, let me ask you to think about the question from a different perspective and see if you agree with me: Is there something you call heat and another thing you call cold?

Certainly.

Sure.

But are they the same as fire and snow?

But are they the same as fire and snow?

Most assuredly not.

Definitely not.

Heat is a thing different from fire, and cold is not the same with snow?

Heat is different from fire, and cold is not the same as snow.

Yes.

Yes.

And yet you will surely admit, that when snow, as was before said, is under the influence of heat, they will not remain snow and heat; but at the advance of the heat, the snow will either retire or perish?

And yet you will surely agree that when snow, as mentioned earlier, is exposed to heat, it won't stay as snow and heat; instead, as the heat increases, the snow will either melt away or disappear entirely?

Very true, he replied.

So true, he replied.

And the fire too at the advance of the cold will either retire or perish; and when the fire is under the influence of the cold, they will not remain as before, fire and cold.

And the fire, with the arrival of the cold, will either go away or die out; and when the fire is affected by the cold, they will no longer stay as they were before, fire and cold.

That is true, he said.

"That's true," he said.

And in some cases the name of the idea is not only attached to the idea in an eternal connection, but anything else which, not being the idea, exists only in the form of the idea, may also lay claim to it. I will try to make this clearer by an example:—The odd number is always called by the name of odd?

And in some cases, the name of the idea is not just linked to the idea itself in an everlasting way, but anything else that isn't the idea but exists only as a representation of it may also stake a claim to that name. I'll try to explain this better with an example:—The odd number is always referred to as odd?

Very true.

So true.

But is this the only thing which is called odd? Are there not other things which have their own name, and yet are called odd, because, although not the same as oddness, they are never without oddness?—that is what I mean to ask—whether numbers such as the number three are not of the class of odd. And there are many other examples: would you not say, for example, that three may be called by its proper name, and also be called odd, which is not the same with three? and this may be said not only of three but also of five, and of every alternate number—each of them without being oddness is odd, and in the same way two and four, and the other series of alternate numbers, has every number even, without being evenness. Do you agree?

But is that the only thing called odd? Aren't there other things that have their own names, yet are still considered odd because, even though they’re not exactly the same as oddness, they always have some element of it?—that’s what I want to ask—whether numbers like three belong to the odd category. And there are many other examples: wouldn’t you say, for instance, that three can be referred to by its actual name and also be called odd, even though that’s not its only identity? This applies not just to three, but also to five and every other odd number—each one is odd without just being defined by oddness, and similarly, two and four, along with the other even numbers, are even without being defined solely by evenness. Do you agree?

Of course.

Of course.

Then now mark the point at which I am aiming:—not only do essential opposites exclude one another, but also concrete things, which, although not in themselves opposed, contain opposites; these, I say, likewise reject the idea which is opposed to that which is contained in them, and when it approaches them they either perish or withdraw. For example; Will not the number three endure annihilation or anything sooner than be converted into an even number, while remaining three?

Then pay attention to the point I'm making: not only do essential opposites exclude each other, but also concrete things that, while not opposing in themselves, contain opposites. These things also reject the idea that's contrary to what's within them, and when that idea comes near, they either disappear or pull back. For instance, wouldn't the number three rather be destroyed than be changed into an even number while still being three?

Very true, said Cebes.

So true, Cebes said.

And yet, he said, the number two is certainly not opposed to the number three?

And yet, he said, the number two is definitely not against the number three?

It is not.

It's not.

Then not only do opposite ideas repel the advance of one another, but also there are other natures which repel the approach of opposites.

Then not only do opposing ideas push each other away, but there are also other natures that resist the approach of opposites.

Very true, he said.

So true, he said.

Suppose, he said, that we endeavour, if possible, to determine what these are.

Suppose, he said, that we try, if we can, to figure out what these are.

By all means.

Go for it.

Are they not, Cebes, such as compel the things of which they have possession, not only to take their own form, but also the form of some opposite?

Are they not, Cebes, those who force the things they possess to not only take on their own form but also the form of something opposite?

What do you mean?

What do you mean?

I mean, as I was just now saying, and as I am sure that you know, that those things which are possessed by the number three must not only be three in number, but must also be odd.

I mean, like I was just saying, and I'm sure you know, that things that come in threes must not only be three in number, but they also have to be odd.

Quite true.

So true.

And on this oddness, of which the number three has the impress, the opposite idea will never intrude?

And with this strangeness, where the number three has its mark, will the opposite idea never come in?

No.

No.

And this impress was given by the odd principle?

And this impression was made by the strange principle?

Yes.

Yes.

And to the odd is opposed the even?

And is the even opposed to the odd?

True.

True.

Then the idea of the even number will never arrive at three?

Then the concept of an even number will never reach three?

No.

No.

Then three has no part in the even?

Then does three have no part in the even?

None.

None.

Then the triad or number three is uneven?

Then is the trio or number three uneven?

Very true.

So true.

To return then to my distinction of natures which are not opposed, and yet do not admit opposites—as, in the instance given, three, although not opposed to the even, does not any the more admit of the even, but always brings the opposite into play on the other side; or as two does not receive the odd, or fire the cold—from these examples (and there are many more of them) perhaps you may be able to arrive at the general conclusion, that not only opposites will not receive opposites, but also that nothing which brings the opposite will admit the opposite of that which it brings, in that to which it is brought. And here let me recapitulate—for there is no harm in repetition. The number five will not admit the nature of the even, any more than ten, which is the double of five, will admit the nature of the odd. The double has another opposite, and is not strictly opposed to the odd, but nevertheless rejects the odd altogether. Nor again will parts in the ratio 3:2, nor any fraction in which there is a half, nor again in which there is a third, admit the notion of the whole, although they are not opposed to the whole: You will agree?

To get back to my point about natures that aren't opposites but also don't include opposites—like in the example of three, which isn't opposed to even numbers but doesn't include them either, always bringing the opposite into the mix; or two, which doesn't accept the odd, or fire, which isn’t cold—these examples (and there are many more) might help you reach the general conclusion that not only do opposites not accept opposites, but also that nothing that introduces the opposite can include the opposite of what it brings into the situation. Let me recap—there's no harm in repeating things. The number five won't accept the even nature, just like ten, which is double five, won't accept the odd nature. The double has a different opposite and isn’t strictly opposed to the odd, yet it completely rejects it. Additionally, segments in the ratio 3:2, or any fraction that includes a half, or one-third, won't accept the concept of the whole, even though they aren't opposed to the whole. You agree?

Yes, he said, I entirely agree and go along with you in that.

Yes, he said, I totally agree and support you on that.

And now, he said, let us begin again; and do not you answer my question in the words in which I ask it: let me have not the old safe answer of which I spoke at first, but another equally safe, of which the truth will be inferred by you from what has been just said. I mean that if any one asks you 'what that is, of which the inherence makes the body hot,' you will reply not heat (this is what I call the safe and stupid answer), but fire, a far superior answer, which we are now in a condition to give. Or if any one asks you 'why a body is diseased,' you will not say from disease, but from fever; and instead of saying that oddness is the cause of odd numbers, you will say that the monad is the cause of them: and so of things in general, as I dare say that you will understand sufficiently without my adducing any further examples.

And now, he said, let's start over; and don't answer my question just as I ask it: I want you to avoid the old, safe answer I mentioned earlier, and instead give me another equally safe answer, the truth of which you can infer from what I just said. I mean that if someone asks you, "What is it that makes the body hot?" you shouldn't say "heat" (that's the safe and silly answer), but instead you should say "fire," which is a much better answer that we can now provide. Or if someone asks you "Why is the body sick?" you shouldn't say "because of disease," but rather "because of fever;" and instead of saying that oddness is the reason for odd numbers, you would say that the monad is the reason for them. And this applies to things in general, as I’m sure you understand well enough without my needing to give more examples.

Yes, he said, I quite understand you.

Yes, he said, I totally get you.

Tell me, then, what is that of which the inherence will render the body alive?

Tell me, then, what is it that will make the body come to life?

The soul, he replied.

The soul, he said.

And is this always the case?

Is this always true?

Yes, he said, of course.

Yeah, he said, of course.

Then whatever the soul possesses, to that she comes bearing life?

Then whatever the soul has, that's what she brings to life?

Yes, certainly.

Sure thing.

And is there any opposite to life?

And is there anything that's the opposite of life?

There is, he said.

He said there is.

And what is that?

And what's that?

Death.

Death.

Then the soul, as has been acknowledged, will never receive the opposite of what she brings.

Then the soul, as has been recognized, will never receive the opposite of what she offers.

Impossible, replied Cebes.

"Impossible," Cebes replied.

And now, he said, what did we just now call that principle which repels the even?

And now, he said, what did we just call that principle that pushes away the even?

The odd.

The unusual.

And that principle which repels the musical, or the just?

And that principle that drives away the musical, or the fair?

The unmusical, he said, and the unjust.

The tone-deaf and the unjust.

And what do we call the principle which does not admit of death?

And what do we call the principle that doesn't allow for death?

The immortal, he said.

The immortal, he stated.

And does the soul admit of death?

And can the soul actually die?

No.

No.

Then the soul is immortal?

So, the soul is immortal?

Yes, he said.

Sure, he said.

And may we say that this has been proven?

And can we say that this has been proven?

Yes, abundantly proven, Socrates, he replied.

Yes, it's been proven many times, Socrates, he replied.

Supposing that the odd were imperishable, must not three be imperishable?

Supposing that the odd is indestructible, shouldn't three be indestructible as well?

Of course.

Of course.

And if that which is cold were imperishable, when the warm principle came attacking the snow, must not the snow have retired whole and unmelted—for it could never have perished, nor could it have remained and admitted the heat?

And if something cold could last forever, when the warm force attacked the snow, wouldn't the snow have completely withdrawn and stayed untouched—since it could never be destroyed, nor could it stay and accept the heat?

True, he said.

Sure, he said.

Again, if the uncooling or warm principle were imperishable, the fire when assailed by cold would not have perished or have been extinguished, but would have gone away unaffected?

Again, if the principle of warmth or heat were everlasting, the fire would not have died out or been extinguished when confronted by cold, but would have remained unaffected instead?

Certainly, he said.

Sure, he said.

And the same may be said of the immortal: if the immortal is also imperishable, the soul when attacked by death cannot perish; for the preceding argument shows that the soul will not admit of death, or ever be dead, any more than three or the odd number will admit of the even, or fire or the heat in the fire, of the cold. Yet a person may say: 'But although the odd will not become even at the approach of the even, why may not the odd perish and the even take the place of the odd?' Now to him who makes this objection, we cannot answer that the odd principle is imperishable; for this has not been acknowledged, but if this had been acknowledged, there would have been no difficulty in contending that at the approach of the even the odd principle and the number three took their departure; and the same argument would have held good of fire and heat and any other thing.

And the same can be said about the immortal: if the immortal is also unchangeable, then the soul, when faced with death, cannot actually die; because the previous argument indicates that the soul cannot experience death or ever be dead, just like three or an odd number cannot become even, or like fire, or the heat in fire, cannot be cold. Still, someone might argue: 'But even if an odd number doesn’t change when faced with an even one, why can't the odd number just disappear and the even take its place?' To this objection, we can't simply say that the odd principle is unchanging; because that hasn't been accepted. However, if it had been accepted, it wouldn't be hard to argue that when faced with the even, the odd principle and the number three would cease to exist; and the same reasoning would apply to fire and heat and any other thing.

Very true.

So true.

And the same may be said of the immortal: if the immortal is also imperishable, then the soul will be imperishable as well as immortal; but if not, some other proof of her imperishableness will have to be given.

And the same can be said about the immortal: if the immortal is also unchanging, then the soul will be unchanging as well as immortal; but if not, another form of proof for its unchanging nature will need to be provided.

No other proof is needed, he said; for if the immortal, being eternal, is liable to perish, then nothing is imperishable.

No other proof is necessary, he said; for if the immortal, being eternal, can still perish, then nothing is everlasting.

Yes, replied Socrates, and yet all men will agree that God, and the essential form of life, and the immortal in general, will never perish.

Yes, Socrates replied, and yet everyone will agree that God, the fundamental essence of life, and the immortal in general will never die.

Yes, all men, he said—that is true; and what is more, gods, if I am not mistaken, as well as men.

Yes, all men, he said—that’s true; and what’s more, gods, if I’m not mistaken, as well as men.

Seeing then that the immortal is indestructible, must not the soul, if she is immortal, be also imperishable?

Seeing that the immortal is indestructible, shouldn’t the soul, if it is immortal, also be imperishable?

Most certainly.

Definitely.

Then when death attacks a man, the mortal portion of him may be supposed to die, but the immortal retires at the approach of death and is preserved safe and sound?

Then, when death comes for a person, it can be assumed that their mortal part dies, but the immortal aspect withdraws in the face of death and remains safe and sound?

True.

True.

Then, Cebes, beyond question, the soul is immortal and imperishable, and our souls will truly exist in another world!

Then, Cebes, without a doubt, the soul is immortal and unbreakable, and our souls will actually exist in another world!

I am convinced, Socrates, said Cebes, and have nothing more to object; but if my friend Simmias, or any one else, has any further objection to make, he had better speak out, and not keep silence, since I do not know to what other season he can defer the discussion, if there is anything which he wants to say or to have said.

I’m convinced, Socrates, Cebes said, and I have nothing more to add; but if my friend Simmias or anyone else has any other objections, they should speak up and not stay quiet, because I don’t know when they can bring it up again if there’s something they want to say.

But I have nothing more to say, replied Simmias; nor can I see any reason for doubt after what has been said. But I still feel and cannot help feeling uncertain in my own mind, when I think of the greatness of the subject and the feebleness of man.

But I have nothing more to say, replied Simmias; nor can I see any reason for doubt after what’s been said. However, I still feel, and can’t help feeling, uncertain in my own mind when I consider the enormity of the subject and the weakness of humanity.

Yes, Simmias, replied Socrates, that is well said: and I may add that first principles, even if they appear certain, should be carefully considered; and when they are satisfactorily ascertained, then, with a sort of hesitating confidence in human reason, you may, I think, follow the course of the argument; and if that be plain and clear, there will be no need for any further enquiry.

Yes, Simmias, Socrates replied, that's a good point. I’d also say that even when first principles seem obvious, they should be examined closely. Once you've figured them out satisfactorily, then, with a certain cautious trust in human reason, you can follow the argument. If that argument is straightforward and clear, there won’t be any need for further investigation.

Very true.

So true.

But then, O my friends, he said, if the soul is really immortal, what care should be taken of her, not only in respect of the portion of time which is called life, but of eternity! And the danger of neglecting her from this point of view does indeed appear to be awful. If death had only been the end of all, the wicked would have had a good bargain in dying, for they would have been happily quit not only of their body, but of their own evil together with their souls. But now, inasmuch as the soul is manifestly immortal, there is no release or salvation from evil except the attainment of the highest virtue and wisdom. For the soul when on her progress to the world below takes nothing with her but nurture and education; and these are said greatly to benefit or greatly to injure the departed, at the very beginning of his journey thither.

But then, my friends, he said, if the soul is truly immortal, how much care should we give it, not just during what we call life but also for eternity! The risk of neglecting it from this perspective seems incredibly serious. If death were only the end of everything, the wicked would actually have it good by dying, as they would be free not only from their bodies but also from their own evil along with their souls. But now, since the soul is clearly immortal, there is no escape or salvation from evil except by achieving the highest virtue and wisdom. For as the soul makes its journey to the afterlife, it takes with it only what it has learned and how it has been nurtured; and these are believed to greatly help or harm the departed at the very start of their journey there.

For after death, as they say, the genius of each individual, to whom he belonged in life, leads him to a certain place in which the dead are gathered together, whence after judgment has been given they pass into the world below, following the guide, who is appointed to conduct them from this world to the other: and when they have there received their due and remained their time, another guide brings them back again after many revolutions of ages. Now this way to the other world is not, as Aeschylus says in the Telephus, a single and straight path—if that were so no guide would be needed, for no one could miss it; but there are many partings of the road, and windings, as I infer from the rites and sacrifices which are offered to the gods below in places where three ways meet on earth. The wise and orderly soul follows in the straight path and is conscious of her surroundings; but the soul which desires the body, and which, as I was relating before, has long been fluttering about the lifeless frame and the world of sight, is after many struggles and many sufferings hardly and with violence carried away by her attendant genius, and when she arrives at the place where the other souls are gathered, if she be impure and have done impure deeds, whether foul murders or other crimes which are the brothers of these, and the works of brothers in crime—from that soul every one flees and turns away; no one will be her companion, no one her guide, but alone she wanders in extremity of evil until certain times are fulfilled, and when they are fulfilled, she is borne irresistibly to her own fitting habitation; as every pure and just soul which has passed through life in the company and under the guidance of the gods has also her own proper home.

After death, as they say, the spirit of each person, to whom they belonged in life, leads them to a certain place where the dead gather. From there, after judgment, they move into the underworld, following a guide assigned to take them from this world to the next. Once they've received their due and spent their designated time there, another guide brings them back again after many ages. This route to the afterlife isn’t, as Aeschylus states in the Telephus, a single straight path—if it were, no guide would be necessary, as no one could miss it. Instead, there are many splits in the road and twists, which I gather from the rituals and sacrifices made to the gods below at places where three roads meet on earth. The wise and orderly soul follows the straight path and is aware of her surroundings; however, the soul that longs for the body, which, as I mentioned before, has been hovering around the lifeless form and the material world, is after much struggle and suffering forcefully taken away by her spirit. When she reaches the place where other souls are gathered, if she is impure and has committed foul deeds—such as terrible murders or other sins of a similar nature—everyone else flees from her and turns away. No one will accompany her, and no one will guide her; she wanders alone in extreme evil until a certain period is completed. When that time is up, she is inexorably taken to her rightful place, just as every pure and just soul that has lived under the guidance of the gods has its proper home.

Now the earth has divers wonderful regions, and is indeed in nature and extent very unlike the notions of geographers, as I believe on the authority of one who shall be nameless.

Now the earth has many amazing areas, and is truly different in nature and size from what geographers think, as I believe based on what someone unnamed once said.

What do you mean, Socrates? said Simmias. I have myself heard many descriptions of the earth, but I do not know, and I should very much like to know, in which of these you put faith.

"What do you mean, Socrates?" Simmias asked. "I've heard a lot of descriptions of the earth, but I really don't know, and I'd love to know, which of these you trust."

And I, Simmias, replied Socrates, if I had the art of Glaucus would tell you; although I know not that the art of Glaucus could prove the truth of my tale, which I myself should never be able to prove, and even if I could, I fear, Simmias, that my life would come to an end before the argument was completed. I may describe to you, however, the form and regions of the earth according to my conception of them.

And I, Simmias, replied Socrates, if I had Glaucus's skill, I would share it with you; however, I’m not sure that even Glaucus's skills could prove my story true, a truth I could never prove myself. Even if I could, I worry, Simmias, that my life would end before I finished the argument. But I can tell you about the shape and areas of the earth as I see them.

That, said Simmias, will be enough.

"That's enough," Simmias said.

Well, then, he said, my conviction is, that the earth is a round body in the centre of the heavens, and therefore has no need of air or any similar force to be a support, but is kept there and hindered from falling or inclining any way by the equability of the surrounding heaven and by her own equipoise. For that which, being in equipoise, is in the centre of that which is equably diffused, will not incline any way in any degree, but will always remain in the same state and not deviate. And this is my first notion.

Well, then, he said, I believe that the Earth is a round object at the center of the universe, and so it doesn't need air or any similar force for support. It's held in place and prevented from falling or tilting in any direction by the balance of the surrounding heavens and its own stability. Anything that is balanced and located at the center of something evenly spread out will not tilt in any direction to any extent but will always stay in the same position and not change. This is my first idea.

Which is surely a correct one, said Simmias.

"That's definitely true," Simmias said.

Also I believe that the earth is very vast, and that we who dwell in the region extending from the river Phasis to the Pillars of Heracles inhabit a small portion only about the sea, like ants or frogs about a marsh, and that there are other inhabitants of many other like places; for everywhere on the face of the earth there are hollows of various forms and sizes, into which the water and the mist and the lower air collect. But the true earth is pure and situated in the pure heaven—there are the stars also; and it is the heaven which is commonly spoken of by us as the ether, and of which our own earth is the sediment gathering in the hollows beneath. But we who live in these hollows are deceived into the notion that we are dwelling above on the surface of the earth; which is just as if a creature who was at the bottom of the sea were to fancy that he was on the surface of the water, and that the sea was the heaven through which he saw the sun and the other stars, he having never come to the surface by reason of his feebleness and sluggishness, and having never lifted up his head and seen, nor ever heard from one who had seen, how much purer and fairer the world above is than his own. And such is exactly our case: for we are dwelling in a hollow of the earth, and fancy that we are on the surface; and the air we call the heaven, in which we imagine that the stars move. But the fact is, that owing to our feebleness and sluggishness we are prevented from reaching the surface of the air: for if any man could arrive at the exterior limit, or take the wings of a bird and come to the top, then like a fish who puts his head out of the water and sees this world, he would see a world beyond; and, if the nature of man could sustain the sight, he would acknowledge that this other world was the place of the true heaven and the true light and the true earth. For our earth, and the stones, and the entire region which surrounds us, are spoilt and corroded, as in the sea all things are corroded by the brine, neither is there any noble or perfect growth, but caverns only, and sand, and an endless slough of mud: and even the shore is not to be compared to the fairer sights of this world. And still less is this our world to be compared with the other. Of that upper earth which is under the heaven, I can tell you a charming tale, Simmias, which is well worth hearing.

I also believe that the earth is really vast, and we who live in the area from the river Phasis to the Pillars of Heracles occupy just a tiny part of it near the sea, like ants or frogs by a marsh. There are many other inhabitants in similar places all over the earth; there are dips of various shapes and sizes where water, mist, and lower air gather. But the true earth is pure and located in the pure heaven—where the stars are too; this heaven is what we often refer to as the ether, and our own earth is just the sediment collected in the dips below. However, we who live in these dips are tricked into thinking we're on the surface of the earth; it's like a creature at the bottom of the sea believing it's on the surface of the water, seeing the sun and stars through the sea, never having come up because it's too weak and sluggish to lift its head and see how much purer and more beautiful the world above is. That's exactly our situation: we dwell in a hollow of the earth, thinking we’re on the surface; we call the air heaven, where we think the stars move. In reality, our weakness and sluggishness prevent us from reaching the surface of the air. If anyone could get to the outer limit or take bird-like wings to the top, they'd be like a fish sticking its head out of the water to see this world, and they'd recognize there's a world beyond that. If a person could handle the sight, they'd realize that this other world is the true heaven, true light, and true earth. Our earth, the stones, and everything around us are damaged and eroded, just as everything in the sea is affected by the salt; there’s nothing noble or perfect growing here, only caverns, sand, and a never-ending mess of mud. Even the shore can’t compare to the beautiful sights of this world. And even less can our world be compared to the other one. I can tell you a lovely story about that upper earth under the heaven, Simmias, which is definitely worth hearing.

And we, Socrates, replied Simmias, shall be charmed to listen to you.

And we, Socrates, Simmias replied, would love to hear what you have to say.

The tale, my friend, he said, is as follows:—In the first place, the earth, when looked at from above, is in appearance streaked like one of those balls which have leather coverings in twelve pieces, and is decked with various colours, of which the colours used by painters on earth are in a manner samples. But there the whole earth is made up of them, and they are brighter far and clearer than ours; there is a purple of wonderful lustre, also the radiance of gold, and the white which is in the earth is whiter than any chalk or snow. Of these and other colours the earth is made up, and they are more in number and fairer than the eye of man has ever seen; the very hollows (of which I was speaking) filled with air and water have a colour of their own, and are seen like light gleaming amid the diversity of the other colours, so that the whole presents a single and continuous appearance of variety in unity. And in this fair region everything that grows—trees, and flowers, and fruits—are in a like degree fairer than any here; and there are hills, having stones in them in a like degree smoother, and more transparent, and fairer in colour than our highly-valued emeralds and sardonyxes and jaspers, and other gems, which are but minute fragments of them: for there all the stones are like our precious stones, and fairer still (compare Republic). The reason is, that they are pure, and not, like our precious stones, infected or corroded by the corrupt briny elements which coagulate among us, and which breed foulness and disease both in earth and stones, as well as in animals and plants. They are the jewels of the upper earth, which also shines with gold and silver and the like, and they are set in the light of day and are large and abundant and in all places, making the earth a sight to gladden the beholder's eye. And there are animals and men, some in a middle region, others dwelling about the air as we dwell about the sea; others in islands which the air flows round, near the continent: and in a word, the air is used by them as the water and the sea are by us, and the ether is to them what the air is to us. Moreover, the temperament of their seasons is such that they have no disease, and live much longer than we do, and have sight and hearing and smell, and all the other senses, in far greater perfection, in the same proportion that air is purer than water or the ether than air. Also they have temples and sacred places in which the gods really dwell, and they hear their voices and receive their answers, and are conscious of them and hold converse with them, and they see the sun, moon, and stars as they truly are, and their other blessedness is of a piece with this.

The story, my friend, he said, goes like this: First of all, the earth, when viewed from above, looks streaked like one of those balls made of twelve leather pieces, and is adorned with various colors, which serve as samples for the paints we use on earth. But there, the entire earth is made up of these colors, and they’re much brighter and clearer than ours; there's a stunning purple, the shine of gold, and the white on that earth is whiter than any chalk or snow. The earth consists of these and other colors, which are more numerous and more beautiful than the human eye has ever seen; even the hollows I mentioned, filled with air and water, have their own color and shine like light amid the variety of other colors, presenting a seamless blend of variety and unity. In this beautiful region, everything that grows—trees, flowers, and fruits—is also much fairer than anything here; there are hills with stones that are smoother, more transparent, and more vivid in color than our prized emeralds, sardonyxes, and jaspers, which are just tiny fragments of them. For there, all the stones are like our precious gems, but even more beautiful (see Republic). The reason is that they are pure and not tainted or corroded by the corrupt salty elements that affect us, which create filth and disease in earth and stones, as well as in animals and plants. They are the jewels of the upper earth, which also shines with gold and silver and similar materials, set in the light of day, large and abundant everywhere, making the earth a sight that delights the eye. There are animals and humans, some in a middle region, others living in the air like we live in the sea; some are on islands surrounded by the air, close to the continent. In short, they use the air like we use water and the sea, and the ether is to them what air is to us. Moreover, their seasons are such that they have no diseases, live much longer than we do, and have sight, hearing, smell, and all the other senses far more perfected, in the same way that air is purer than water or ether is purer than air. They also have temples and sacred places where the gods really dwell, and they hear their voices and receive answers, are aware of them, and have conversations with them, and they see the sun, moon, and stars as they truly are, and their other blessings are consistent with this.

Such is the nature of the whole earth, and of the things which are around the earth; and there are divers regions in the hollows on the face of the globe everywhere, some of them deeper and more extended than that which we inhabit, others deeper but with a narrower opening than ours, and some are shallower and also wider. All have numerous perforations, and there are passages broad and narrow in the interior of the earth, connecting them with one another; and there flows out of and into them, as into basins, a vast tide of water, and huge subterranean streams of perennial rivers, and springs hot and cold, and a great fire, and great rivers of fire, and streams of liquid mud, thin or thick (like the rivers of mud in Sicily, and the lava streams which follow them), and the regions about which they happen to flow are filled up with them. And there is a swinging or see-saw in the interior of the earth which moves all this up and down, and is due to the following cause:—There is a chasm which is the vastest of them all, and pierces right through the whole earth; this is that chasm which Homer describes in the words,—

Such is the nature of the entire earth and everything surrounding it; there are different regions in the hollows on the surface of the globe everywhere. Some are deeper and larger than the one we live in, others are deeper but with a narrower opening than ours, and some are shallower yet wider. All of them have numerous openings, and there are both broad and narrow passages within the earth that connect them all. A vast tide of water flows in and out of these areas, like basins, along with huge underground streams, hot and cold springs, and great fires, along with massive rivers of fire and streams of liquid mud, whether thin or thick (similar to the mud rivers in Sicily and the lava flows that accompany them), filling the regions they traverse. Inside the earth, there is a kind of swinging or see-saw movement that shifts everything up and down, caused by a chasm that is the largest of all, which goes right through the entire earth; this is the chasm that Homer describes in the words,—

     'Far off, where is the inmost depth beneath the earth;'
'Far away, where is the deepest part below the ground;'

and which he in other places, and many other poets, have called Tartarus. And the see-saw is caused by the streams flowing into and out of this chasm, and they each have the nature of the soil through which they flow. And the reason why the streams are always flowing in and out, is that the watery element has no bed or bottom, but is swinging and surging up and down, and the surrounding wind and air do the same; they follow the water up and down, hither and thither, over the earth—just as in the act of respiration the air is always in process of inhalation and exhalation;—and the wind swinging with the water in and out produces fearful and irresistible blasts: when the waters retire with a rush into the lower parts of the earth, as they are called, they flow through the earth in those regions, and fill them up like water raised by a pump, and then when they leave those regions and rush back hither, they again fill the hollows here, and when these are filled, flow through subterranean channels and find their way to their several places, forming seas, and lakes, and rivers, and springs. Thence they again enter the earth, some of them making a long circuit into many lands, others going to a few places and not so distant; and again fall into Tartarus, some at a point a good deal lower than that at which they rose, and others not much lower, but all in some degree lower than the point from which they came. And some burst forth again on the opposite side, and some on the same side, and some wind round the earth with one or many folds like the coils of a serpent, and descend as far as they can, but always return and fall into the chasm. The rivers flowing in either direction can descend only to the centre and no further, for opposite to the rivers is a precipice.

and which he in other places, as well as many other poets, have referred to as Tartarus. The see-saw effect is caused by the streams flowing in and out of this chasm, each influenced by the type of soil they pass through. The continuous flow of these streams happens because the water has no fixed bed or bottom; it constantly moves up and down. The surrounding wind and air do the same, reacting to the water's movements—just like how air is always inhaled and exhaled during breathing. This interaction generates powerful and unstoppable blasts: when the water rushes into the lower parts of the earth, it fills those regions like water pumped from a well, and then when it returns, it fills the hollows here. Once filled, it travels through underground channels to various locations, forming seas, lakes, rivers, and springs. From there, some of the water enters the earth again, taking long paths through many lands, while others go to nearby places. Eventually, all the water returns to Tartarus, some at a significantly lower point than where they initially rose, and others not much lower, but all situated slightly lower than their origin. Some emerge again on the opposite side, some stay on the same side, and some wind around the earth in one or multiple loops like a serpent's coils, descending as far as they can but always coming back to fall into the chasm. The rivers flowing in either direction can only reach the center and no further, as there is a precipice opposite to them.

Now these rivers are many, and mighty, and diverse, and there are four principal ones, of which the greatest and outermost is that called Oceanus, which flows round the earth in a circle; and in the opposite direction flows Acheron, which passes under the earth through desert places into the Acherusian lake: this is the lake to the shores of which the souls of the many go when they are dead, and after waiting an appointed time, which is to some a longer and to some a shorter time, they are sent back to be born again as animals. The third river passes out between the two, and near the place of outlet pours into a vast region of fire, and forms a lake larger than the Mediterranean Sea, boiling with water and mud; and proceeding muddy and turbid, and winding about the earth, comes, among other places, to the extremities of the Acherusian Lake, but mingles not with the waters of the lake, and after making many coils about the earth plunges into Tartarus at a deeper level. This is that Pyriphlegethon, as the stream is called, which throws up jets of fire in different parts of the earth. The fourth river goes out on the opposite side, and falls first of all into a wild and savage region, which is all of a dark-blue colour, like lapis lazuli; and this is that river which is called the Stygian river, and falls into and forms the Lake Styx, and after falling into the lake and receiving strange powers in the waters, passes under the earth, winding round in the opposite direction, and comes near the Acherusian lake from the opposite side to Pyriphlegethon. And the water of this river too mingles with no other, but flows round in a circle and falls into Tartarus over against Pyriphlegethon; and the name of the river, as the poets say, is Cocytus.

Now these rivers are numerous, powerful, and varied, with four main ones. The largest and outermost is Oceanus, which flows around the earth in a circle; in the opposite direction is Acheron, which passes beneath the earth through desolate areas into the Acherusian lake. This is the lake where the souls of the deceased gather, waiting an appointed time—whether longer or shorter for different souls—before they are sent back to be reborn as animals. The third river runs between the two and, at its outlet, flows into a huge fiery region, creating a lake larger than the Mediterranean Sea that boils with water and mud. This muddy and turbulent river winds through the earth, reaching different places, including the edges of the Acherusian Lake, but it does not mix with the lake's waters. After making many twists, it plunges into Tartarus at a deeper level. This river is called Pyriphlegethon, known for ejecting jets of fire in various places on earth. The fourth river flows out on the opposite side and leads into a wild, savage region that is dark blue, resembling lapis lazuli. This is the river known as the Stygian river, which enters and forms Lake Styx. After falling into the lake and gaining strange powers, it winds beneath the earth in the opposite direction and approaches the Acherusian lake from the other side of Pyriphlegethon. The water of this river also does not mix with others but flows in a circle, eventually falling into Tartarus opposite Pyriphlegethon; its name, as poets say, is Cocytus.

Such is the nature of the other world; and when the dead arrive at the place to which the genius of each severally guides them, first of all, they have sentence passed upon them, as they have lived well and piously or not. And those who appear to have lived neither well nor ill, go to the river Acheron, and embarking in any vessels which they may find, are carried in them to the lake, and there they dwell and are purified of their evil deeds, and having suffered the penalty of the wrongs which they have done to others, they are absolved, and receive the rewards of their good deeds, each of them according to his deserts. But those who appear to be incurable by reason of the greatness of their crimes—who have committed many and terrible deeds of sacrilege, murders foul and violent, or the like—such are hurled into Tartarus which is their suitable destiny, and they never come out. Those again who have committed crimes, which, although great, are not irremediable—who in a moment of anger, for example, have done violence to a father or a mother, and have repented for the remainder of their lives, or, who have taken the life of another under the like extenuating circumstances—these are plunged into Tartarus, the pains of which they are compelled to undergo for a year, but at the end of the year the wave casts them forth—mere homicides by way of Cocytus, parricides and matricides by Pyriphlegethon—and they are borne to the Acherusian lake, and there they lift up their voices and call upon the victims whom they have slain or wronged, to have pity on them, and to be kind to them, and let them come out into the lake. And if they prevail, then they come forth and cease from their troubles; but if not, they are carried back again into Tartarus and from thence into the rivers unceasingly, until they obtain mercy from those whom they have wronged: for that is the sentence inflicted upon them by their judges. Those too who have been pre-eminent for holiness of life are released from this earthly prison, and go to their pure home which is above, and dwell in the purer earth; and of these, such as have duly purified themselves with philosophy live henceforth altogether without the body, in mansions fairer still which may not be described, and of which the time would fail me to tell.

This is the nature of the afterlife: when the dead reach the place guided by their individual spirits, they are first assessed based on how well and righteously they lived. Those who seem to have lived neither good nor bad go to the river Acheron. They get into any boats they find and are taken to the lake, where they stay and are cleansed of their wrongdoings. After facing the consequences of the harm they caused others, they are forgiven and rewarded for their good actions, each according to what they deserve. However, those deemed hopeless due to the severity of their crimes—who have committed terrible acts like murder or other horrific offenses—are thrown into Tartarus, their fitting punishment, and never escape. Those who have committed serious but not unforgivable crimes—like violently harming a parent in a moment of anger and then feeling deep remorse, or taking another’s life under similar circumstances—are sent to Tartarus, where they endure suffering for a year. At the end of that year, they are released from their torment—simple murderers through Cocytus, and those who killed parents through Pyriphlegethon—and brought to the Acherusian lake. There, they cry out to the victims they wronged, begging for mercy and kindness to let them out of the lake. If they are successful, they are freed and their troubles end; if not, they are sent back to Tartarus and then back into the rivers continuously, until they receive forgiveness from those they hurt, as decided by their judges. Those who have lived exceptionally holy lives are released from this earthly prison and ascend to their pure home above, dwelling in a purer realm. Among them, those who have truly purified themselves through philosophy live forever without their bodies in even more beautiful homes that cannot be described, and discussing them would take too long.

Wherefore, Simmias, seeing all these things, what ought not we to do that we may obtain virtue and wisdom in this life? Fair is the prize, and the hope great!

So, Simmias, looking at all this, what should we not do to gain virtue and wisdom in this life? The reward is beautiful, and the hope is significant!

A man of sense ought not to say, nor will I be very confident, that the description which I have given of the soul and her mansions is exactly true. But I do say that, inasmuch as the soul is shown to be immortal, he may venture to think, not improperly or unworthily, that something of the kind is true. The venture is a glorious one, and he ought to comfort himself with words like these, which is the reason why I lengthen out the tale. Wherefore, I say, let a man be of good cheer about his soul, who having cast away the pleasures and ornaments of the body as alien to him and working harm rather than good, has sought after the pleasures of knowledge; and has arrayed the soul, not in some foreign attire, but in her own proper jewels, temperance, and justice, and courage, and nobility, and truth—in these adorned she is ready to go on her journey to the world below, when her hour comes. You, Simmias and Cebes, and all other men, will depart at some time or other. Me already, as the tragic poet would say, the voice of fate calls. Soon I must drink the poison; and I think that I had better repair to the bath first, in order that the women may not have the trouble of washing my body after I am dead.

A person with good judgment shouldn't say definitively, nor will I be overly confident, that the description I've given of the soul and its realms is completely accurate. However, I do believe that since the soul is shown to be immortal, it is reasonable for him to think that some version of this might be true. This belief is a noble one, and he should console himself with thoughts like these, which is why I'm expanding on the story. Therefore, I say, a person should feel positive about their soul, especially one who has dismissed the pleasures and superficialities of the body as unnecessary and harmful, and has sought out the pleasures of knowledge instead; someone who has dressed the soul, not in foreign garments, but in its own true jewels—self-control, justice, courage, nobility, and truth. With these adornments, the soul is prepared for its journey to the afterlife when the time comes. You, Simmias, Cebes, and all other people, will leave at some point. As the tragic poet would say, I am already being called by fate. Soon I must drink the poison; and I think it would be best to go to the bath first so the women won't have to worry about cleaning my body after I'm gone.

When he had done speaking, Crito said: And have you any commands for us, Socrates—anything to say about your children, or any other matter in which we can serve you?

When he finished speaking, Crito said: So, do you have any requests for us, Socrates—anything you want to discuss about your children, or anything else we can help you with?

Nothing particular, Crito, he replied: only, as I have always told you, take care of yourselves; that is a service which you may be ever rendering to me and mine and to all of us, whether you promise to do so or not. But if you have no thought for yourselves, and care not to walk according to the rule which I have prescribed for you, not now for the first time, however much you may profess or promise at the moment, it will be of no avail.

Nothing in particular, Crito, he answered: just, as I've always said, take care of yourselves; that's a service you can always provide for me and mine and for all of us, whether you say you'll do it or not. But if you don't think about yourselves and aren't willing to follow the guidelines I've set for you, not just now but at any time, no matter how much you say or promise in the moment, it won’t matter.

We will do our best, said Crito: And in what way shall we bury you?

"We'll do our best," Crito said. "So how should we bury you?"

In any way that you like; but you must get hold of me, and take care that I do not run away from you. Then he turned to us, and added with a smile:—I cannot make Crito believe that I am the same Socrates who have been talking and conducting the argument; he fancies that I am the other Socrates whom he will soon see, a dead body—and he asks, How shall he bury me? And though I have spoken many words in the endeavour to show that when I have drunk the poison I shall leave you and go to the joys of the blessed,—these words of mine, with which I was comforting you and myself, have had, as I perceive, no effect upon Crito. And therefore I want you to be surety for me to him now, as at the trial he was surety to the judges for me: but let the promise be of another sort; for he was surety for me to the judges that I would remain, and you must be my surety to him that I shall not remain, but go away and depart; and then he will suffer less at my death, and not be grieved when he sees my body being burned or buried. I would not have him sorrow at my hard lot, or say at the burial, Thus we lay out Socrates, or, Thus we follow him to the grave or bury him; for false words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil. Be of good cheer, then, my dear Crito, and say that you are burying my body only, and do with that whatever is usual, and what you think best.

Do whatever you want; just make sure you get a hold of me and keep me from running away. Then he turned to us and added with a smile:—I can’t convince Crito that I’m the same Socrates who has been talking and arguing; he thinks I’m the other Socrates he’ll soon see, a dead body—and he asks, how will he bury me? Even though I’ve said a lot in an effort to show that when I drink the poison, I’ll leave you and go to the joys of the blessed, I see that my words meant nothing to Crito. So, I want you to be the assurance for him now, just as he was assurance for the judges during the trial: but your promise needs to be different; he was surety for the judges that I would stay, and you have to be his assurance that I won’t stay, but will go away and leave; this way, he’ll suffer less at my death and won’t be upset when he sees my body being burned or buried. I don’t want him to grieve over my fate or say at the burial, “Here we prepare Socrates” or “Here we take him to the grave or bury him”; because false words aren’t just wrong in themselves, but they also poison the soul with evil. So be cheerful, my dear Crito, and just say that you’re burying my body, and do with it whatever is customary and what you think is best.

When he had spoken these words, he arose and went into a chamber to bathe; Crito followed him and told us to wait. So we remained behind, talking and thinking of the subject of discourse, and also of the greatness of our sorrow; he was like a father of whom we were being bereaved, and we were about to pass the rest of our lives as orphans. When he had taken the bath his children were brought to him—(he had two young sons and an elder one); and the women of his family also came, and he talked to them and gave them a few directions in the presence of Crito; then he dismissed them and returned to us.

When he finished speaking, he got up and went into a room to take a bath; Crito followed him and told us to wait. So, we stayed behind, talking and reflecting on the topic of discussion, as well as the depth of our sadness; he felt like a father we were losing, and we were about to live the rest of our lives as orphans. After his bath, his children were brought to him—he had two young sons and an older one; the women in his family came as well, and he spoke with them and gave them a few instructions in front of Crito; then he sent them away and returned to us.

Now the hour of sunset was near, for a good deal of time had passed while he was within. When he came out, he sat down with us again after his bath, but not much was said. Soon the jailer, who was the servant of the Eleven, entered and stood by him, saying:—To you, Socrates, whom I know to be the noblest and gentlest and best of all who ever came to this place, I will not impute the angry feelings of other men, who rage and swear at me, when, in obedience to the authorities, I bid them drink the poison—indeed, I am sure that you will not be angry with me; for others, as you are aware, and not I, are to blame. And so fare you well, and try to bear lightly what must needs be—you know my errand. Then bursting into tears he turned away and went out.

Now the hour of sunset was approaching, as quite some time had passed while he was inside. When he came out, he sat down with us again after his bath, but not much was said. Soon, the jailer, who served the Eleven, entered and stood by him, saying: "To you, Socrates, whom I know to be the noblest, kindest, and best of all who have ever come here, I won’t hold against you the anger of others who rage and swear at me when I tell them to drink the poison in obedience to the authorities—I'm sure you won't be angry with me; it’s others, not me, who are to blame. So, farewell, and try to accept lightly what must happen—you know my purpose." Then, bursting into tears, he turned away and left.

Socrates looked at him and said: I return your good wishes, and will do as you bid. Then turning to us, he said, How charming the man is: since I have been in prison he has always been coming to see me, and at times he would talk to me, and was as good to me as could be, and now see how generously he sorrows on my account. We must do as he says, Crito; and therefore let the cup be brought, if the poison is prepared: if not, let the attendant prepare some.

Socrates looked at him and said, "I appreciate your kind wishes and will follow your request." Then he turned to us and added, "What a wonderful man he is! Since I’ve been in prison, he has always come to see me, and sometimes he would talk with me; he has been as kind as possible, and now look at how genuinely he grieves for me. We should follow his advice, Crito, so let the cup be brought if the poison is ready; if not, let the attendant prepare some."

Yet, said Crito, the sun is still upon the hill-tops, and I know that many a one has taken the draught late, and after the announcement has been made to him, he has eaten and drunk, and enjoyed the society of his beloved; do not hurry—there is time enough.

Yet, Crito said, the sun is still shining on the hilltops, and I know that many people have taken the drink late, and after being told about it, they have eaten, drunk, and enjoyed the company of their loved ones; don’t rush—there’s plenty of time.

Socrates said: Yes, Crito, and they of whom you speak are right in so acting, for they think that they will be gainers by the delay; but I am right in not following their example, for I do not think that I should gain anything by drinking the poison a little later; I should only be ridiculous in my own eyes for sparing and saving a life which is already forfeit. Please then to do as I say, and not to refuse me.

Socrates said: Yes, Crito, and the people you’re talking about are correct in what they’re doing because they believe they will benefit from the delay; but I am right not to follow their lead, as I don’t think I’d gain anything by drinking the poison a little later. I would just end up feeling foolish for trying to prolong a life that is already lost. So please, do as I ask and don’t refuse me.

Crito made a sign to the servant, who was standing by; and he went out, and having been absent for some time, returned with the jailer carrying the cup of poison. Socrates said: You, my good friend, who are experienced in these matters, shall give me directions how I am to proceed. The man answered: You have only to walk about until your legs are heavy, and then to lie down, and the poison will act. At the same time he handed the cup to Socrates, who in the easiest and gentlest manner, without the least fear or change of colour or feature, looking at the man with all his eyes, Echecrates, as his manner was, took the cup and said: What do you say about making a libation out of this cup to any god? May I, or not? The man answered: We only prepare, Socrates, just so much as we deem enough. I understand, he said: but I may and must ask the gods to prosper my journey from this to the other world—even so—and so be it according to my prayer. Then raising the cup to his lips, quite readily and cheerfully he drank off the poison. And hitherto most of us had been able to control our sorrow; but now when we saw him drinking, and saw too that he had finished the draught, we could no longer forbear, and in spite of myself my own tears were flowing fast; so that I covered my face and wept, not for him, but at the thought of my own calamity in having to part from such a friend. Nor was I the first; for Crito, when he found himself unable to restrain his tears, had got up, and I followed; and at that moment, Apollodorus, who had been weeping all the time, broke out in a loud and passionate cry which made cowards of us all. Socrates alone retained his calmness: What is this strange outcry? he said. I sent away the women mainly in order that they might not misbehave in this way, for I have been told that a man should die in peace. Be quiet, then, and have patience. When we heard his words we were ashamed, and refrained our tears; and he walked about until, as he said, his legs began to fail, and then he lay on his back, according to the directions, and the man who gave him the poison now and then looked at his feet and legs; and after a while he pressed his foot hard, and asked him if he could feel; and he said, No; and then his leg, and so upwards and upwards, and showed us that he was cold and stiff. And he felt them himself, and said: When the poison reaches the heart, that will be the end. He was beginning to grow cold about the groin, when he uncovered his face, for he had covered himself up, and said—they were his last words—he said: Crito, I owe a cock to Asclepius; will you remember to pay the debt? The debt shall be paid, said Crito; is there anything else? There was no answer to this question; but in a minute or two a movement was heard, and the attendants uncovered him; his eyes were set, and Crito closed his eyes and mouth.

Crito signaled to the servant who was standing by, and he went out, returning after a while with the jailer carrying the cup of poison. Socrates said, "You, my good friend, who know about these things, guide me on what to do next." The man replied, "You just need to walk around until your legs feel heavy, and then lie down, and the poison will take effect." He handed the cup to Socrates, who, with calmness and a gentle demeanor, showing no fear or change in his expression, looked at the man intently and said, "What do you think about making a libation from this cup to any god? Am I allowed to, or not?" The man responded, "We only prepare what we think is enough, Socrates." Socrates replied, "I get it, but I can and should ask the gods to grant me a good journey from this world to the next—so be it according to my prayer." Then, lifting the cup to his lips, he readily and cheerfully drank the poison. Until that moment, most of us had managed to hold back our sorrow, but when we saw him drinking and realized he had finished the drink, we could no longer control ourselves, and despite myself, tears began to flow quickly. I covered my face and cried, not for him, but at the thought of my own misfortune in having to part from such a friend. I wasn’t alone in this; Crito, unable to hold back his tears either, got up, and I followed his lead. At that moment, Apollodorus, who had been weeping the entire time, broke out into a loud and passionate cry that made us all feel weak. Socrates alone remained calm: "What is this strange commotion?" he said. "I sent the women away mainly so they wouldn’t behave like this, for I’ve been told that a man should die in peace. So be quiet, and have patience." When we heard his words, we felt ashamed and held back our tears. He walked around until, as he said, his legs started to give out, and then he lay on his back, following the directions given. The man who provided the poison occasionally checked his feet and legs; after a while, he pressed his foot firmly and asked if he could feel anything. Socrates replied, "No," then did the same with his leg, and kept moving up his body, showing us that he was growing cold and stiff. Socrates felt them himself and said, "When the poison reaches the heart, that will be the end." He started to feel cold in the groin, revealed his face, which he had covered, and spoke his last words: "Crito, I owe a cock to Asclepius; will you remember to pay the debt?" Crito responded, "The debt will be paid; is there anything else?" There was no answer to this, but a minute or two later, we heard a movement, and the attendants uncovered him; his eyes were fixed, and Crito closed his eyes and mouth.

Such was the end, Echecrates, of our friend; concerning whom I may truly say, that of all the men of his time whom I have known, he was the wisest and justest and best.

Such was the end, Echecrates, of our friend; about whom I can honestly say that of all the men of his time that I have known, he was the wisest, fairest, and kindest.










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